The Unit Stats Improvement thread

[Van Diemen]

As we are now easily capable of changing unit stats (heaven be praised for Delphy's good work) maybe it is time to discuss which units should be changed from the vanilla game stats. I however am not very much into this period of history, so apart from common sense and some things I picket up here and there do not have the knowledge to really make a lot of changes without possible bias. Can so people here respond and make a list of unit changes that are as much unbiased as possible and please try if possible to provide some link so that others can check your findings/opinion on this matter.

The following stats can currently be altered:
- Melee Attack (MA)
- Melee Defense (MD)
- Charge bonus (Ch)
- Accuracy (Ac)
- Reload Skill (Re)
- Morale (M)
- Unit size (Us)

Please indicate the correct vanilla ingame name of the unit and which stats should change to an indicated new value and why.

P.S. The meaning of this thread is to provide an organised constructive modding discussion about the unit stats, this thread is not meant for adding new units, just improving the units that are in the vanilla game!

[Paranoid Android]

This is a great idea by the way!

I was considering starting a thread like this, but didn't know if others would be keen on the idea. I'd like to edit the stats as I feel they need balancing, but as I don't know quite enough about the era, I decided it would be better to leave it and see what others thought.

The only two units I have edited were Prussian Line Infantry, whose Defence I increased to 15 - from 14 (to reflect the dominance - from what I've read and heard - of Prussian infantry for much of the 18th Century), and the Death's Head Hussars which I boosted considerably to bring them in-line with the 1240 asking price.

Death's Head Hussar's stats were:

Melee Attack: 13
Charge: 9
Melee Defence: 6
Morale: 18

...but I boosted these to...

Melee Attack: 18
Charge: 14
Melee Defence: 8
Morale: 18

Whether or not this is historically accurate, I can't say. As I said, I edited them to make them worth the 1240 price (which made them the most expensive cavalry in the game), so with these stats they're amonsgt the best performing cavalry in the game - but not overly so. I put them against English Life Guard Cavalry who have a higher defence but lower attack and my new Death's Head Hussars only just won. It was very close. I think the higher morale gave them the edge, as both units fought down to about 10-15 men but the Life Guards routed first.

[Fenix_120]

Well first off I would boost the stats of regular Pike men, I mean I know that they were considered obsolete but their melee defense is almost half of what regular musket militia is, as well as sword and buckler infantry, I mean Scottish highlanders with a buckler have only 4 melee defense and line infantry with nothing to defend with but a musket has 13?

That's pretty much my only compliant about the game is that certain units stats have been nerfed for no apparent reason other than they were old fasioned.

I'm not saying that Line infantry should be wimps, quite the contrary, but come on a pike is longer than a musket w/ bayonet and a steel buckler though small was great protection, mabey not against a musket ball but a bayonet would have a very hard time getting past it.



EDIT: secondly British line infantry were so well trained that they could fire 4 rounds a minute so thats something else I would add, reduce all Britsh line infantry reload time but make them cost more ti reflect their more intensive training.

[lesterthenerd]

for russia id say increase the number of men in a line infantry unit from 160 to 200 and do the opposite for austria.

[Van Diemen]

for russia id say increase the number of men in a line infantry unit from 160 to 200 and do the opposite for austria.

I already did that, as you can see in the original thread with the new modding tool! I also increased their melee attack and I'm thinking about increasing their melee defense as well so that they are at least comparable in defense against average European line infantry (but better in attack and charge).

[Kurtisb]

I'm a fan of the light infantry type troops, so a good portion of my unit modding is focused on them.
A few examples of my edits (assuming this is the right place for it):

euro_light_infantry [including the colonial & chasseur variants]

Unit size: 120 (from 80)

Reload Skill: 42 to 48, depending on my mood. (The original is 30) During most of Empire's time period, light infantrymen would normally be veteran line infantry troops that are given specialized training and tactics. Hence, they should be quicker to reload than regular line troops.

Morale: 10 or 11. (Default: 7). Again, these were veteran line troops, and therefor shouldn't have any worse morale than them.
----------------------------
euro_elite_light_infantry_green_jackets

British riflemen were among the best marksmen in Europe, as they were equipped with rifles, not muskets. They would also be correct to consider themselves elite, and were thoroughly despised by the French during the Napoleonic Wars.

Accuracy: 80 to 90, depending on my mood. (Default: 65). According to my calculations, the default accuracy of 65 puts the Green Jackets' accuracy approximately 18% higher than the regular light infantry, which in my opinion, is extremely low, for realism. At his in-game maximum range of 125, a good rifleman should be able to hit a man-sized target fairly reliably.

Morale: 11 to 12. (Default: 9). As these troops know they are good and consider themselves elite, they should have fairly high morale, due to at least 2 of the key factors of morale: Self-Confidence and Esprit de Corps.

[Maggy]

im not sure but when i change stats of my units would they work on multiplayer aswell ?
Maybe this is the reason why i have lost last 10 battles on multiplayer .....

[NONOPUST]

Sorry if I haven't found this out yet on my own but I would like to be sure.

Changing unit stats for my ETW will only make it non compatable on MP trying to join games right? Or might steam see it as a possible hack and ban my account?

I don't want to lose all my games

[Van Diemen]

Sorry if I haven't found this out yet on my own but I would like to be sure.

Changing unit stats for my ETW will only make it non compatable on MP trying to join games right? Or might steam see it as a possible hack and ban my account?

I don't want to lose all my games

That would be very stupid as it would mean that no mod could be made at all. CA always said that modding ETW would be easier, not impossible. I can understand your concern however, maybe someone of CA could advise us on this?

BTW: Did someone ever time the amount of shots fired within one minute by infantry with any reload value, as that would be a great guideline for the reload values for the game as some knowledge about the reload skill of some line infantry is available (especially for the British).

[Gustav21]

American longriflemen's Ac should be boosted to atleast 70, or higher then any other skirmishers. Could suffer a loss in MD though.

[Mythic_Commodore]

It would make it non-compatible on multiplayer, but just in case, I wouldn't try it.

[Fjodin]

Grenadiers should have 120 units in company like ordinary line infantry

[Nathan2]

If you mod the units then try to play MP it gives you a de-sync error as soon as you all get into the game.

I think light galleys should be nerfed. I always hate it when I lose a big ship to a bunch of them.

[onetthome]

Cannister shot is no where near devasting enough.

[Tharros]

What I am going to do (when I get time today):

1. Raise accuracy by 10-20 points depending on the units' quality - I want my volleys to kill more than 10 people.
2. Raise reload time by 10-20 points also - To get closer to the 2 or 3 rounds a minute mark.
3. Drop moral of all units by about 25%. This is so they don't sit there shooting at each other until 90% of the unit is dead. They should rout long before that.
4. Raise melee damage for melee only units by a couple of points. So melee units don't get completely nerfed.
5. Raise the number of cannons in artillery units to 4 or 5 as I have raised the unit number multiplier.

All I can think of ATM.

Maybe could up the range of musketeers too...

[Juggernaut]

3. Drop moral of all units by about 25%. This is so they don't sit there shooting at each other until 90% of the unit is dead. They should rout long before that.

QFT.
At the moment the battle casualties is way too high, and it's ridiculous seeing a militia unit still fighting even when half of their unit is dead. I personally like to see a lower moral and musket damage for a longer battle with fewer casualties.

[Björneborgs regemente]

QFT.
At the moment the battle casualties is way too high, and it's ridiculous seeing a militia unit still fighting even when half of their unit is dead. I personally like to see a lower moral and musket damage for a longer battle with fewer casualties.

Souds good! After 20-30% casulties the units should rout. Can this be done so that after a short rout you can take control again for an organized retreat?

[Van Diemen]

Souds good! After 20-30% casulties the units should rout. Can this be done so that after a short rout you can take control again for an organized retreat?

The best way to mod this is by altering the influence of casualties on morale, which cannot be done with the Unit Stats Editor (this editor can only adjust all morale for a unit).

[Björneborgs regemente]

Ok, thanks fos explaining.
Another question.
Is it possible to make a chart and tables of all vanilla units values and how they convert into to time, range etc. in the game ? So that you could inport real world values and start testing and tuning from there?

[Van Diemen]

Ok, thanks fos explaining.
Another question.
Is it possible to make a chart and tables of all vanilla units values and how they convert into to time, range etc. in the game ? So that you could inport real world values and start testing and tuning from there?

I understand what you mean. To be honest I have already timed in game what the reload value mean in the number of seconds required for the reload of a single shot. I haven't tested it fully as I only took two units of Austrian Line Infantry, one green and one veteran. However I was able to create for following formula with the acquired data:

Re = -0.8t + 55

In this formula Re is the "Reload skill" of a unit in points and t the "time" required for reload of a single shot in a smoothbore musket in seconds. As said this formula is a good indicator for the reload times, but more data points would be required for the precise formula.