Battle system of Post-Marian Project
After DimeBagHo revised battle system, this made me start rethinking about battle concept of PMP but due to I didn't play tactical mode so I'm not quite sure that the idea would be good for PMP or not.
PMP Battle concept ideas.
- All units will have 1 HP except elephants, Berserkers, and Spartan Royal Guard(without additional HP would made them not worth 30 turn recruitment). For Sword Master, Champions, and Dosidataskeli will have insane amount of defense instead to encourage to made them kill in classic death of the heroes in hand of the ordinaries, by arrow shot.
- All HA will get higher penalty in scrub and settlement area.
- All Barbarian archer will have high forest terrain bonus but All archer and cavalry from east(except india which seem normal in forest) beyond Mediterranean will have huge penalty in it.
- Heavy infantry will stronger in the west of Mediterranean and even more if for each step further west.
- All heavy infantry and cavalry will subject more to heat and sand than lighter units especially if they come from the west.
- Cavalry charging distance lowered to decrease the chance of cavalry charge fail.
- All germans heavy infantry without special formation will have ability to form wedge formation as an option.
- All other barbarian units without special formation should have loose formations as an option.
- Lighter units must run generally faster than heavier ones(modding skeleton needed) to made lighter units have more tactical value than just the fodders.
Here is the composition of hardiness and speed
-->light units = fast model+very_hardy
-->medium units = fast model+hardy
-->heavy units = slow model+hardy
-->*all civic units will be hardy regardless class
-->*all horse culture cavalry will be very_hardy regardless class except very heavy one
-->*some ultra training elite will be very_hardy too
- Archer will stronger in the east of Mediterranean and even more if for each step further east.
- Increase quiver size of
-->all foot archers from 25 to 30 in the west and 40 in the east
-->all slinger from 30 to 35
-->kestros from 25 to 30
-->dart up to 8(PMP feature, small fletch jevelin for celtic levy with low damage and lethality but high accuracy, planned to add in PMP)
- Level of firpower/range(with is reduce range as many people think archer is too overpower)
-->dart(damage 7/range 50)ap
-->javelin(damage 8-9/range 40)ap
-->heavy javelin(damage 10-13/range 30)ap
-->pilum(damage 12-15/range 25)ap
-->sling(damage 5/range 90)ap
-->elite sling(damage 7/range 90)ap
-->kestros(damage 7/range 90)ap
-->basic hunter/archer-west(damage 7/ range 60)(hunting)
-->generic foot archer-west(damage 7 /range 80)(skirmish)
-->elite foot archer-west(damage 8/range 100)(bombard)
-->generic foot archer-east(damage 8/range 100)(bombard)
-->Indian longbow(damage 9/range 120)(bombard)
-->elite foot archer-east(Composite bow)(damage 10/range 120)(bombard)
-->generic HA(damage 8/range 80)(aimed and fire)
-->elite HA(damage 10/range 100)(aimed and fire)
-->Tocharian horse-archer(damage 10/range 120)(aimed and fire)
-->Crossbow(damage 8/range 140)ap
- Set projectile accuracy(fewer mean more accurated, 0 = always hit)(need test)
-->generic bombard-type archer = 0.15(elite west and most of east foot archer)
-->generic skirmish-type archer = 0.1(generic west with shorter range and easier to aim)
-->horse-archer = 0.1(aim before fire but how much you would expect from horseback)
-->hunter/famous archer = 0.05(snipe and fire!)
-->dart = 0.05(most accurate among javelin type)
-->javelin = 0.1
-->heavy javelin = 0.1
-->pilum = 0.1
-->slinger = 0.15
-->kestros = 0.05
-->Crossbow bolt = 0.05
- unit class system(level may varied according to faction culture)
Culture modifier
--> carthage AM (-2 morale, -1 training, +1 equipment grade, +1 descipline)
--> carthage PM (+2 equipment grade, +2 descipline, +2 cost and upkeep)
--> rome AM (+2 morale, +1 training, +1 descipline)
--> rome PM (+4 morale, +1 training, bigger infantry stack size, +2 descipline)
--> partial civilized (+1 training, +2 equipment grade)
--> barbarian (+2 training, -1 low tier equipment grade, +1 high tier equipment grade, bigger low tier infantry stack size, impetuous descipline)
--> greek (+2 morale, +1 training, +1 descipline, +1 cost and upkeep)
--> egypt cleruch (+2 morale, +1 training, +2 cost and upkeep, +1 descipline)
--> egypt machimoi (-1 equipment grade, bigger infantry stack size, -1 cost and upkeep, +1 descipline)
--> eastern (+1 high tier training, +1 high tier equipment grade, -1 cost and upkeep)
--> horse faction (-2 morale for infantry, +2 training for cavalry)
Type modifier
--> line (often +1 descipline level)
--> low tier range (morale base always 8 regardless level)
--> siege (morale base away 8 regardless level)
Base level
low tier
lvl 0
garrison: Emergency and garrison troops
--> morale
---> infantry: 6
---> cavalry: 4
--> descipline: low
--> training level: 1
--> equipment grade: 0
--> cost and upkeep: 1
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 60
---> cavalry: 30
lvl 1
levy: Cheap troops meant to be used as reserves and non-critical roles in the battlefield.
--> morale
---> infantry: 8
---> cavalry: 6
--> descipline: low
--> training level: 2
--> equipment grade: 1
--> cost and upkeep: 2
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 50
---> cavalry: 25
lvl2
militia: part-time soldiers that can be expected to perform adequately as long as they don't face heavy troops, usually recruited from the middle class.
--> morale
---> infantry: 10
---> cavalry: 8
--> descipline: low
--> training level: 2
--> equipment grade: 2
--> cost and upkeep: 3
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 50
---> cavalry: 25
berserk(heroic) specialist: the braves who fight fearlessly regardless rank and social status.
--> morale
---> infantry: 24
---> cavalry: 20
--> descipline: impetuous
--> training level: 5
--> equipment grade: 2
--> cost and upkeep: 5
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 20
---> cavalry: 10
lvl3
semi-professional: part-time soldiers that can be expected to perform adequately as long as they don't face heavy troops, usually recruited from the middle class.
--> morale
---> infantry: 12
---> cavalry: 10
--> descipline: normal
--> training level: 3
--> equipment grade: 2
--> cost and upkeep: 4
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 50
---> cavalry: 25
heroic: the braves who fight fearlessly regardless rank and social status
--> morale
---> fanatic(gaesatae): 24
---> infantry: 16
---> cavalry: 14
--> descipline: impetuous
--> training level: 4
--> equipment grade: 2
--> cost and upkeep: 5
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 40
---> cavalry: 20
temple specialist : the brave men of gods in the battle
--> morale
---> infantry: 16
---> cavalry: 14
--> descipline: normal
--> training level: 3
--> equipment grade: 4
--> cost and upkeep: 8
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 20
---> cavalry: 10
high tier
lvl4
professional: full-time soldiers, either mercenaries or lower class troops equipped by the state, able to stand above most troops but still vulnerable under pressure.
--> morale
---> infantry: 14
---> cavalry: 14
--> descipline: descipline
--> training level: 4
--> equipment grade: 3
--> cost and upkeep: 8
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 50
---> cavalry: 25
minor nobility: warrior nobility that has a stake in the outcome of the battle. They can afford better equipment but don't have the same discipline of experienced warriors.
--> morale
---> infantry: 18
---> cavalry: 14
--> descipline: normal
--> training level: 3
--> equipment grade: 4
--> cost and upkeep: 6
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 40
---> cavalry: 20
temple elite: religious warrior that who well trained and armed to serve gods and state. They are high status and called to arm when state is in emergency so they are very high upkeep.
--> morale
---> Infantry: 30
---> Cavalry: 20
--> descipline: descipline
--> training level: 5
--> equipment grade: 4
--> cost and upkeep: 16
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 40
---> cavalry: 20
lvl5
assault: Full-time experienced soldiers, trained and equipped for heavy fighting.
--> morale
---> infantry: 16
---> cavalry: 14
--> descipline: descipline
--> training level: 4
--> equipment grade: 4
--> cost and upkeep: 10
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 50
---> cavalry: 25
noble: These soldiers will fight had as they cannot afford to loose their honor in battle. Can afford very good equipment and to spend considerable time training.
--> morale
---> infantry: 20
---> cavalry: 16
--> descipline: normal
--> training level: 3
--> equipment grade: 5
--> cost and upkeep: 8
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 40
---> cavalry: 20
elite: The best troops recruitable by the faction, will be either extremely expensive, longer to train or in smaller numbers.
--> morale
---> infantry: 24
---> cavalry: 20
--> descipline: descipline
--> training level: 4
--> equipment grade: 5
--> cost and upkeep: 12
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 40
---> cavalry: 20
champion: Heroic elite who living, fighting and dying in battle for leader sake.
--> morale
---> infantry: 20
---> cavalry: 18
--> descipline: normal
--> training level: 5
--> equipment grade: 5
--> cost and upkeep: 14
--> stack size(small)
---> infantry: 20
---> cavalry: 10
To better explain:
morale: self-explanatory
descipline: how battle effect the morale especially how fast it reduce
training level: base attack and defence stats(+1 attack and 2 defense skill each level)
equipment grade: armour and letality, can also affect attack(1 attack each level)
cost and upkeep: how much they demand for their services
- Morale of units based on their types and factions
Morale bases of units by types/factions
- Increace shield attribute of each shield to here.Code:Culture Groups Barbarian Spain AM-Carthage PM-Carthage AM-Roman PM-Roman Greek Egypt Bactria Eastern Parthia Scythia Unit Types general Militia Levy 8 8 4 4 6 6 6 4 6 6 2 8 General 8 8 8 - 8 - 8 8 8 8 8 8 Post-Marian General 9 9 - 9 - 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 Siege 8 8 8 8 10 10 8 8 8 8 8 8 Skirmisher Light Skirmisher 8 8 - - 8 10 8 8 8 8 8 8 Heavy Skirmisher - - - - - - - - - 8 - - Archer Normal Archer 8 8 - - 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 Archer-Spearmen 8 - - - - - 8 - 8 8 8 - Melee Archer 10 - - - - - - - 10 - - - Elite Archer 12 - - - - - - 8 - - - 12 Slinger Normal Slinger 8 - - - - - 8 8 - 8 8 - Heavy Slinger - - - - - - 10 - - - - - Elite Slinger 12 - - - - - - - - - - - Infantry Light Line - - 6 - - 10 10 - - 10 6 - Medium Line 12 12 - 12 - - 12 - 12 - - 12 Heavy Line 14 - - - 14 - 14 - - 14 - - Elite Line 16 - 30 30 - - 16, 30 16 16 18 - - Levy/Militia Phalangite - - 4 8 - - 8 6 8 - - - Main Phalangite - - - - - - 10 8 10 10 - - Heavy Phalangite 12 - - 12 - - 16 14 - - - - Elite Phalangite - - - - - - 24 16 - - - - Light Melee 10 10 - - - 8 - 6 6 8 8 - Main Melee 12 12 4 6 10 10 8 8 8 10 - 10 Medium Melee 14 - - - 10 12 10 - - 12 - - Heavy Melee 16 16 - - - 14 14 12 14 16 - - Elite Melee - - - - - 18 16 16 16 30 - - Special Combatant 16 - - - - - 30 - - - - - Heroic 20 - - - 18 18 18 - - - - - Fanatic&Berserk 24 - - - - - - - - - - - Cavalry Light Cavalry 8 8 - - 6 10 8 8 - 8 8 8 Elite Light Cavalry - - - - - - 12 - - - - - Medium Cavalry 12 12 8 10 - 10 8 8 8 12 12 12 Elite Medium Cavalry - - - - - - 10 - 12 - - - Heavy Cavalry 14 14 - - - 14 12 12 12 12 16 16 Elite Heavy Cavalry 16 16 14 14 - 14 14 14 14 16 18 18 Light HA - - - - - - - - - 8 8 8 Medium HA - - - - - - - - 6 - - - Heavy HA - - - - - - - - 10 12 12 12 Elite HA 16 - - - - - - - - 14 14 - Special Cavalry - - - - - - - - - - - 14 Camel - - - - - - - - - - - - Camel HA - - - - - - - - - 8 - - Heavy Camel - - - - - - 12 - 12 12 12 - Heavy Camel HA - - - - - - - - - 12 12 - Chariot 12 - - - - - 12 - - 12 - - Light Elephant - - 12 12 - - 12 12 12 - - - Medium Elephant - - 14 14 - - 14 14 20 14 - - Heavy Elephant - - 16 16 - - 16 16 24 - - - Berserk Elephant - - - - - - - - 20 20 - -
--> small shield = 5(+2 defense skill)
--> medium shield = 7(+0 defense skill)
--> large shield = 9(-1 defense skill)
--> huge shield = 11(-3 defense skill)
- Change and increase defense skill drastically for all units, making flanking attacks more effective for infantry. Base on this value calculation
defense skill calculation
Base value = 8
Unit Class & Culture modifier; Based on unit class&culture list for PMP, +2 for each training level
Summery; Culture modifier
--> carthage Anti-Marius = -2
--> carthage Post-Marius = +0
--> rome Anti-Marius = +2
--> rome Post-Marius = +2
--> partial civilized = +2
--> barbarian = +4
--> greek = +2
--> egypt cleruch = +2
--> egypt machimoi = +0
--> eastern low end = +0
--> eastern high end = +2
--> horse faction cavalry = +4
--> horse faction Infantry = +0
Summery; Class modifier
Citizen group
lvl 0; garrison = +2
lvl 1; levy = +4
lvl 2; militia = +4
lvl 3; semi-professional = +6
lvl 4; professional = +8
lvl 5; assault = +8
lvl 5; elite = +10
Noble group
lvl 4; minor nobility = +6
lvl 5; noble = +6
Hero group
lvl 3; heroic = +8 or +10
lvl 5; champion = +10
Unit role Modifier
--> Non-Melee Range = -4
--> Melee Range = +2
--> Skirmish = -2
--> Special Role = +0
--> Melee = +4
--> Line = +8
Formation
--> Tight = -4
--> loose = +0
Mount and Machine
--> Horse = +4
--> Cataphrect Horse = -2
--> Camel = +2
--> Cataphrect Camel = +0
--> Elephant = +12
--> Cataphrect Elephant = +8
--> Indian Elephant = +16
--> Cataphrect Indian Elephant = +12
--> Siege = -8
Hand-held Weapon Modifier
Huge Bow = -4
Bow = -2
Sling = -2
Pike = -4
Short Pike = +0
Spear = +4
Light Spear = +6(compensate hardcoded -4 defense of light_spear)
dagger = -2
Axe&Club&Mace = +0
Falx = +2
Sword = +4
Shield Modifier
No Shield = +0
Small Shield = +2
medium Shield = +0
Large Shield = -1
Huge Shield = -3
armour modifier
1-8 = +0
9-12 = -1
13-16 = -3
17-20 = -5
21 or higher = -7
not yet confirm.
- training level of phalangite up to unit class
- low end phalangite will have bigger radius than high end one.
- list of Mass
Very Light: 0.8
Inferior Phalanx: 0.8
Unarmoured Spear: 1.0
Regular Phalanx: 1.0
Regular Infantry: 1.2
Very Heavy: 1.5
Hoplite: 1.5
Berserker: 1.8
Champions: 2.0
Cavalry: 1 (not used)
- list of Radius
Hoplite 0.3
Default 0.5
Two handed 0.7
High end phalangite 0.8
Low end phalangite 1.0
- list of lethality
Ranged: 1.0 (not used)
One Handed: 0.8
Two handed: 0.85
Berserker: 1.0
Hoplite: 1.0
Pike: 0.45
Spear: 0.65
Cavalry: 0.8
Chariot: 1.0
Naval: 1.0
What do you think? and please suggest if you like.
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Originally Posted by DimeBagHo
