British Political Heroes

[cristophe el perno]

I was wondering what historical (or indeed present) politicians in the UK that people most admire.
You don't have to be British to comment, it would be interesting to see what the rest of the world thinks of our politicians.

For me, the post-war politician I admire most has to be Aneurin Bevan. For anyone who doesn't know who he is, he was Minister for Health and Housing in Clement Atlee's post-WWII Labour government (1945-51). As well as supervising the builing of thousands of affordable and durable houses for the soldiers returning from war, we effectively have this guy to thank for the wonder that is the NHS - it may not be perfect but its a darn sight better than the alternatives. Also, he was strongly devoted to his principles, and chose to resign from the cabinet rather than see them compromised.

[Markas]

Pitt, Wilberforce, Bevan, Wilson (well I liked him as a person), Disraeli and Wellington (he was hilarious).

[Garrigan]

Heh. He did have some good lines, sitting shouting "Who? Who?" when the new cabinet is announced is fairly legendary.

Intresting fact Ive only mentioned about 20 times; I live just outside the Wellington that he was Duke of. In fact I used to live on Wellesley Park.

[Visna]

Churchill.

[Justice and Mercy]

Churchill.

That racist ?

Yeah, he was excellent.

EDIT: I see how what just I said can be mistaken for sarcasm. It isn't.

[Pious Agnost]

So I'm guessing the mighty pedestal from which you speak is the United States? Where segregation was still enacted?
This was a different time, and he was exactly what was needed for a Total War

[Justice and Mercy]

So I'm guessing the mighty pedestal from which you speak is the United States? Where segregation was still enacted? This was a different time, and he was exactly what was needed for a Total War

Hello? I'm saying he was excellent.

Sheesh.

[gojira]

Churchill.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek — all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.




"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders."

Winston Churchill


But he was not an antisemite in a general sense as one might think after having read this.
He took large fundings from zionists- despite he critisized them with these Quotes=> thats the remarable thing: he was corrupt and an alcoholic.

Diasporah jews were not the one´s he adressed with these quotes, despite he speaks of "jews". actually I doubt anyone ever really had problems with "jews", it was the radical zionists that could disguise themselves as jews, i think THAT is the core mistake everyone makes and that is not adequately spread in public conscience.

Jew=/=radical zionist (although the latter always claims he was a "jew")


However, these fundings from zionists he attacked in his writings, made it possible, to maintain a large staff of housemaids and to keep his- snobbish- mansion running. Radical Zionists supported churchill despite he attacked them so harshly, because he agreed to their demand: Palestine.

And he kept the war running against germany, which would have never agreed to hand over palestine to the radical zionists.

I think thats the entire thing about "jewish world conspiracy". Its nothing else but radical zionists, preteding to be jews, abusing the good name of judaism, were able to achieve high influencial positions. As hardly ever notices/adresses this difference (by simply naming them "jew" and hence honoring them), they could install one regime, and commit one crime after another- always protected by the "antisemitism tolerance poor jew"- shield.

(I know that not everyone who supports Israel (=zionist) must be bad, but this movement has some extremist leaders, that are nothing better than massmurderers (Sharon i.e).
Radical zionists are allowed to disguise as jews, whereas in reality they are nothing but fascisitic, powerhungry, conspiring and lying hoodlums.
I draw a sharp line between: Judaism and zionism. As radical zionism is a term, that surfaced to public conscience just lately, I am a 90% sure, that all those quotes adressing "jews" in a negative sense made by statesmen of the past, actually refers to the radical zionists of their time.

Under this pretext, I find his quotes at least remarkable and step back from the generalization that he was "antisemite", I would say he was anti zionist (as he saw what their influence had done) at heart, but for personal fame (and large financial support) he sacrificed these ressentiments. He was corrupt and sold his believes.

Thats how I would interprete these quotes.


What is also hardly known is: He was a traitor.
Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship


Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.
But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.
Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nger-ship.html



Additionally:
His constant refusal to accept the - VERY- generous german peace offers, his sticking with the war despite the germans let some 200.000 thousand english escape... The dubious imprissonment of Hess, who flew over to britain to offer peace personally...
There´s so much bout that man. He is worth a thread on his own... (actually I started one, but lost the interest on it due to more important topics.)


There´s a lot not known about him, so Eldar cannot and should not be criticized.

[Blau&Gruen]

Yeah, the good old boy. I am not sure he would write that these days in a similar fashion. I grew up with two full editions of Churchill's works. It's a good place to start to learn historical methods of interpretation. Reading then should go over collecting some text-samples without giving a context.

[IrishHitman]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek — all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.




"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders."

Winston Churchill


But he was not an antisemite in a general sense as one might think after having read this.
He took large fundings from zionists- despite he critisized them with these Quotes=> thats the remarable thing: he was corrupt and an alcoholic.

Diasporah jews were not the one´s he adressed with these quotes, despite he speaks of "jews". actually I doubt anyone ever really had problems with "jews", it was the radical zionists that could disguise themselves as jews, i think THAT is the core mistake everyone makes and that is not adequately spread in public conscience.

Jew=/=radical zionist (although the latter always claims he was a "jew")


However, these fundings from zionists he attacked in his writings, made it possible, to maintain a large staff of housemaids and to keep his- snobbish- mansion running. Radical Zionists supported churchill despite he attacked them so harshly, because he agreed to their demand: Palestine.

And he kept the war running against germany, which would have never agreed to hand over palestine to the radical zionists.

I think thats the entire thing about "jewish world conspiracy". Its nothing else but radical zionists, preteding to be jews, abusing the good name of judaism, were able to achieve high influencial positions. As hardly ever notices/adresses this difference (by simply naming them "jew" and hence honoring them), they could install one regime, and commit one crime after another- always protected by the "antisemitism tolerance poor jew"- shield.

(I know that not everyone who supports Israel (=zionist) must be bad, but this movement has some extremist leaders, that are nothing better than massmurderers (Sharon i.e).
Radical zionists are allowed to disguise as jews, whereas in reality they are nothing but fascisitic, powerhungry, conspiring and lying hoodlums.
I draw a sharp line between: Judaism and zionism. As radical zionism is a term, that surfaced to public conscience just lately, I am a 90% sure, that all those quotes adressing "jews" in a negative sense made by statesmen of the past, actually refers to the radical zionists of their time.

Under this pretext, I find his quotes at least remarkable and step back from the generalization that he was "antisemite", I would say he was anti zionist (as he saw what their influence had done) at heart, but for personal fame (and large financial support) he sacrificed these ressentiments. He was corrupt and sold his believes.

Thats how I would interprete these quotes.


What is also hardly known is: He was a traitor.
Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship


Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.
But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.
Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nger-ship.html



Additionally:
His constant refusal to accept the - VERY- generous german peace offers, his sticking with the war despite the germans let some 200.000 thousand english escape... The dubious imprissonment of Hess, who flew over to britain to offer peace personally...
There´s so much bout that man. He is worth a thread on his own... (actually I started one, but lost the interest on it due to more important topics.)


There´s a lot not known about him, so Eldar cannot and should not be criticized.

You do realise that the "Jews created Communism" thing was invented in the German trenches to stop the troops from mutinying like the Russian and French troops did?

[Dr. Croccer]

You do realise that the "Jews created Communism" thing was invented in the German trenches to stop the troops from mutinying like the Russian and French troops did?

No, the myth only became prevelant after WWI after Communism became, you know, more widespread.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek — all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.




"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new. From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders."

Winston Churchill


But he was not an antisemite in a general sense as one might think after having read this.
He took large fundings from zionists- despite he critisized them with these Quotes=> thats the remarable thing: he was corrupt and an alcoholic.

Diasporah jews were not the one´s he adressed with these quotes, despite he speaks of "jews". actually I doubt anyone ever really had problems with "jews", it was the radical zionists that could disguise themselves as jews, i think THAT is the core mistake everyone makes and that is not adequately spread in public conscience.

Jew=/=radical zionist (although the latter always claims he was a "jew")


However, these fundings from zionists he attacked in his writings, made it possible, to maintain a large staff of housemaids and to keep his- snobbish- mansion running. Radical Zionists supported churchill despite he attacked them so harshly, because he agreed to their demand: Palestine.

And he kept the war running against germany, which would have never agreed to hand over palestine to the radical zionists.

I think thats the entire thing about "jewish world conspiracy". Its nothing else but radical zionists, preteding to be jews, abusing the good name of judaism, were able to achieve high influencial positions. As hardly ever notices/adresses this difference (by simply naming them "jew" and hence honoring them), they could install one regime, and commit one crime after another- always protected by the "antisemitism tolerance poor jew"- shield.

(I know that not everyone who supports Israel (=zionist) must be bad, but this movement has some extremist leaders, that are nothing better than massmurderers (Sharon i.e).
Radical zionists are allowed to disguise as jews, whereas in reality they are nothing but fascisitic, powerhungry, conspiring and lying hoodlums.
I draw a sharp line between: Judaism and zionism. As radical zionism is a term, that surfaced to public conscience just lately, I am a 90% sure, that all those quotes adressing "jews" in a negative sense made by statesmen of the past, actually refers to the radical zionists of their time.

Under this pretext, I find his quotes at least remarkable and step back from the generalization that he was "antisemite", I would say he was anti zionist (as he saw what their influence had done) at heart, but for personal fame (and large financial support) he sacrificed these ressentiments. He was corrupt and sold his believes.

Thats how I would interprete these quotes.


What is also hardly known is: He was a traitor.
Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship


Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.
But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.
Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nger-ship.html



Additionally:
His constant refusal to accept the - VERY- generous german peace offers, his sticking with the war despite the germans let some 200.000 thousand english escape... The dubious imprissonment of Hess, who flew over to britain to offer peace personally...
There´s so much bout that man. He is worth a thread on his own... (actually I started one, but lost the interest on it due to more important topics.)


There´s a lot not known about him, so Eldar cannot and should not be criticized.

Usually your quotes are invented and most of these are no exception. Here's what Churchill said in defence of Jews in the 1920s.

First there are the Jews who, dwelling in every country throughout the world, identify themselves with that country, enter into its national life and, while adhering faithfully to their own religion, regard themselves as citizens in the fullest sense of the State which has received them. Such a Jew living in England would say, 'I am an English man practising the Jewish faith.' This is a worthy conception, and useful in the highest degree. We in Great Britain well know that during the great struggle the influence of what may be called the 'National Jews' in many lands was cast preponderatingly on the side of the Allies; and in our own Army Jewish soldiers have played a most distinguished part, some rising to the command of armies, others winning the Victoria Cross for valour.

[Barry Goldwater]

Churchill & Disraeli are the first to enter my mind...

Though I also like Robert Cecil (Lord Salisbury I think) 'cause of his awesome beard

[Nouvelle Vague]

Churchill.

Operation of Gallipoli was a pretty big stuff up.

[Visna]

Operation of Gallipoli was a pretty big stuff up.

Nah, Lawrence shares the blame for that one. If that numbhead had made accurate reports about the Turkish strength, who knows how Churchill would have acted?
And either way, despite his few personal failures, and some unfortunate habits, drinking a bit too much, not exactly having healthy sleeping patterns, and a tendency to get brave verging on stupidity for example, the point stands. Churchill is one of the greatest British statesmen ever. If having to weigh a partial failure at Gallipoli against playing a large role in helping to save the western civilization in WW2, my money is on the latter.

[Bovril]

Wat Tyler and John Ball - Leaders of the Peasant's Revolt
Gerard Winstanly - Most prominent amongst the of the Diggers, a radical group in the English civil war
Thomas Paine - For being patriotic enough to regularly defy his government in Enlgand, the US and France
Ned Ludd - Am I allowed a fictional character? There are no famous Luddites, so I'll use him to embody them, which is what they did anyway.
The Tolpuddle Martyrs - Early labour organisers
William Lovett - Prominent Chartist
John Stuart Mill and Emmeline Pankhurst - For championing Women's Suffrage

and lots more. But, as always, it needs to be said that real progressive change always comes from the grassroots, and that the names of the greatest political heroes are not recorded. By the way, I hope by politicians you didn't just mean people who have sat in Parliament. if so, only Mill from my list gets a look in. But like I said, the best politics happens no where near Westminster.

[Elrond]

William Wilberforce (abolition of slavery), Duke of Wellington (Waterloo + repeal of anti catholic laws), Winston Churchill (saved us from the Nazis), Clement Atlee + rest of his government (setting up NHS), Margaret Thatcher (Restoring Britain's power) and Tony Blair (Kosovo + Sierra Leone).

[IrishHitman]

Charles Stewart Parnell.
Leader of the Irish Parliamentary Party.
Inventor of party discipline, effectively finishing the work of Disraeli at creating the political party system we have today in both Ireland and the UK.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Churchill and Cromwell are probably the big ones.

[cristophe el perno]

Churchill and Cromwell are probably the big ones.

Cromwell? I certainly didn't expect that. A lot of people (particularly republicans) are quick to glorify his rule simply because he wasn't a king, but really he was a religious fundamentalist and an autocrat just as opressive as any king. He also passed power to his son when he died.
I don't think the Irish remember him too fondly either.....

David Lloyd-George, Herbert Asquith, Henry Campbell-Bannerman and the rest of their Liberal Government havn't been mentioned yet, and I believe they deserve some serious credit for laying the foundations for the welfare state.