Drug Wars Down South

[John Wayne]

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=44671

From 4:30 p.m. to 9 p.m. on a recent Tuesday, 17 bodies rolled into the Juarez morgue, including the city police force's second-in-command and three other officers.

Nearly 40 percent of the dead last year tested positive for cocaine or marijuana. About 20 percent were never claimed by their families, many out of fear. Cardboard boxes with bloodstained cowboy boots, cell phones and bulletproof vests are stacked to the ceiling in the crime lab.

Thoughts?

[Erik]

Did they ran out of pretty young women to murder?
Or is that still going on as well?

[Rapax]

Time for "CSI: Juarez"

[Thanatos]

It's time to have our military guard our border.

But no, that would be an "overreaction," right?

[Barry Goldwater]

We need a Great Wall of the Border now, manned by soldiers who can shoot on sight.

[Surgeon]

We need a Great Wall of the Border now, manned by soldiers who can shoot on sight.

Just put minutemen up there and announce manhunting season

[Problem Sleuth]

We need a Great Wall of the Border now, manned by soldiers who can shoot on sight.

That would be obscenely expensive to make and maintain. It's nearly 2000 miles long. Think of how much 2000 miles of wall costs. Think of how many tens, or hundreds of thousands of soldiers will have to be diverted PURELY to watch over the wall. Even then, it's not as if they can't arrive by sea. Finally, shooting someone for trying to get into our country without any intentions to harm American citizens? What the hell? Seriously. Will you also give the death penalty for pick pocketing?

[Barry Goldwater]

Just put minutemen up there and announce manhunting season

That works too

That would be obscenely expensive to make and maintain. It's nearly 2000 miles long. Think of how much 2000 miles of wall costs. Think of how many tens, or hundreds of thousands of soldiers will have to be diverted PURELY to watch over the wall. Even then, it's not as if they can't arrive by sea. Finally, shooting someone for trying to get into our country without any intentions to harm American citizens? What the hell? Seriously. Will you also give the death penalty for pick pocketing?

Fine...have the army/NG patrol the border and the Coast Guard watch the sea

[patrick1191]

That would be obscenely expensive to make and maintain. It's nearly 2000 miles long. Think of how much 2000 miles of wall costs. Think of how many tens, or hundreds of thousands of soldiers will have to be diverted PURELY to watch over the wall. Even then, it's not as if they can't arrive by sea. Finally, shooting someone for trying to get into our country without any intentions to harm American citizens? What the hell? Seriously. Will you also give the death penalty for pick pocketing?

10,000 men in watch towers, 10,000 for fast acting mobile units.

You have no clue what their intentions are btw.

[Thanatos]

That would be obscenely expensive to make and maintain. It's nearly 2000 miles long. Think of how much 2000 miles of wall costs. Think of how many tens, or hundreds of thousands of soldiers will have to be diverted PURELY to watch over the wall.

1)You are assuming we're going to build a great wall of America. All you need is a basic fence, and people to guard it. You think that's expensive, well, it's not as expensive as some bills that go through Congress.

2) Diverting soldiers to guard our borders is a bad thing? What, to have them do their primary purpose, instead of say, guarding S. Korea's border, or getting into pointless conflicts?

Finally, shooting someone for trying to get into our country without any intentions to harm American citizens? What the hell? Seriously. Will you also give the death penalty for pick pocketing?

If somebody broke into my home, and wouldn't stop entering, I'd shoot them as well. I don't see your point.

[Problem Sleuth]

1)You are assuming we're going to build a great wall of America. All you need is a basic fence, and people to guard it. You think that's expensive, well, it's not as expensive as some bills that go through Congress.

We already have a basic fence and people to guard it. It clearly doesn't cut it. Let's say you have an average of a guy every twentieth of a mile when you factor in both direct border watches and mobile units. One soldier every 250 feet. That's 40,000 people. Of course, that won't be enough to watch the wall 24/7. As a result, you divide it up into 8-hour shifts. 120,000 people. That's only in soldiers, though. You'll need many more people that in support, each of which needs to be fed, housed, etc. You'll also need to pay for whatever vehicles are used by the mobile soldiers, which aren't exactly cheap. In addition to that, you still haven't dedicated any people to the coastline.

If we conservatively say it costs 100,000 per soldier annually for pay, food, housing, the pay, food, and housing of all support, the vehicles, the upkeep of the wall section they protect, the fuel, the electricity, all bureaucracy, and other related costs, we're talking about 12,000,000,000 spent annually on watching the border (not including training costs). Half a million illegal immigrants sneak into the US annually. The end result is you end up paying 24,000 dollars per illegal immigrant each year to keep them out of this country, if you're fairly conservative with numbers and omit any costs incurred by watching the coastline.

In short, it's not cost-effective.

2) Diverting soldiers to guard our borders is a bad thing? What, to have them do their primary purpose, instead of say, guarding S. Korea's border, or getting into pointless conflicts?

It wouldn't be a bad idea if it wasn't so damn expensive.

If somebody broke into my home, and wouldn't stop entering, I'd shoot them as well. I don't see your point.

If someone breaks into your house, the chances are they're going to do you or your property harm. Illegal immigrants are generally looking for jobs and opportunities. There's a BIG difference between the two.

[Mikelus Trento]

It's time to have our military guard our border.

But no, that would be an "overreaction," right?

I read just a couple days ago in the local paper how the poor economy has actually pretty well solved the immigration problem, and that the Border Patrol is having examples now of days going by with no one being apprehended crossing. They just stopped.

Of course, a proper border guard will also help prevent the smuggling of weapons from the US to Mexico, which is now copious.

[Nikos]

It's time to have our military guard our border.

But no, that would be an "overreaction," right?

Don't forget "Fascistic"

[Zephyrus]

Why aren't special forces involved here? This is obviously a threat to American domestic interests, and must be treated as such. If mexico won't control their problem, we will.

[Rapax]

Why aren't special forces involved here?

Playing too much Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, are we?

[Zephyrus]

Playing too much Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, are we?

And unlike you though, I'm actually looking for a way to solve the problem without calling for an occupation in Mexico. Call me an idealist, but it'd be nice to see people doing their jobs for once.

The United States needs to send military personnel into Mexico ASAP. The Mexican and American armies need to work together to end this violence. If we do not stop it now, Mexico could turn into another Somalia, warlords controlling different parts of the country. The only difference being Mexico is not on the other side of the world. it is obvious that the Mexican military cannot do this alone.

Occupations are a nice way to advance your own will onto a formerly sovreign nation. Its also a disturbing trend in political affairs nowadays.

And why should American blood be spilled for Mexicans?

Maybe George Bush can give Obama some valuable intel regarding Iraq's WMDs finally being found in Tenochitlan. We all know how good a reason that was for invasion, eh?

Im guessing you read that somewhere. Or if not, you deserve some credit for trying to put it into mathematical terms...but its wrong.

If we ever really tackle the issue, which we are in part, the whole thing will be based on surveillance and tracking technology. Technology that can almost eliminate the need for strong points. And we already have some pretty neat stuff out in no mans land. A good amount of it is 'classified', for obvious reasons.

Even if you went with a fully manned approach, one man with a pair of standard issue binocs can glass up to a mile out, or 5280ft.

So given that the Mexico/US border is roughly 2000 miles long, and your talking a observation/interdiction point every mile or so, your looking at 2000 of those. Manned by lets say, 5-10 NG.

With the use of other technologies such as ground/motion sensors, cameras, manned and unmanned recon aircraft, and whatever other stuff they have out there, you could likely get away with a force under 100,000. Mostly to respond to high traffic areas.

Mhm, but that brings up the problem of corruption too. FBI and cia oversight needs to be required over Border patrolmen.

[Rapax]

And unlike you though, I'm actually looking for a way to solve the problem without calling for an occupation in Mexico. Call me an idealist, but it'd be nice to see people doing their jobs for once.

It's kind of scary that problem solving for you is sending special forces into a sovereign country, which apparently seems to be your nice alternative to just occupying Mexico. So I figured this strange approach to problem solving must be inspired by video games though it seems these days reality is quite enough to do that.

[Sosobra]

Why aren't special forces involved here? This is obviously a threat to American domestic interests, and must be treated as such. If mexico won't control their problem, we will.

They are just for the wrong side

Los Zetas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

The Zetas were originally members of the Mexican Army’s elite Grupo Aeromóvil de Fuerzas Especiales, trained in locating and apprehending drug cartel members. It is believed that they were originally trained at the military School of the Americas in the United States.[6][7] Also, they were trained by foreign specialists, including Americans, French, and Israelis, in rapid deployment, aerial assaults, marksmanship, ambushes, small-group tactics, intelligence collection, counter-surveillance techniques, prisoner rescues and sophisticated communications.

In the late 1990s, the drug Gulf Cartel leader Osiel Cardenas Guillen, began to recruit GAFE members to provide protection and perform other vital functions. His top recruit, Lieutenant Arturo Guzmán Decena, brought with him approximately 30 other deserters enticed by salaries substantially higher than those paid by the Mexican government.

Zeta training locations have been identified as containing the same items and setup as GAFE training facilities, it is also further believed the group employs the same internal organizational structure. Current estimates place Los Zetas around 200 members strong, which includes several rogue Kaibil Guatemalan forces. The name "Zeta" comes from the Federal Preventive Police radio code for high-ranking officers.[2][3][4]

Some of the original members are: [8] Arturo Guzmán Decena, Rogelio González Pizaña, Heriberto Lazcano, Jaime González Durán, Efraín Teodoro Torres, Raúl Hernandez Barrón, Óscar Guerrero Silva, Luís Alberto Guerrero Reyes, Jesús Enrique Rejón, Mateo Díaz López, Jorge López, Daniel Peréz Rojas, Sergio Enrique Ruiz Tlapanco, Nabor Vargas García, Ernesto Zatarín Beliz, Eduardo Estrada González, Flavio Méndez Santiago, Prisciliano Ibarra Yepis, Rogelio Guerra Ramírez, Miguel Ángel Soto Parra, Galindo Mellado Cruz, Gonzalo Ceresano Escribano and Daniel Enrique Márquez Aguilar.

After the military killed Guzmán Decenas on November 2002 and captured his second-in-command, Rogelio González Pizaña, on October 2004, ex-GAFE Heriberto "The Executioner" Lazcano ascended to the leadership of the paramilitaries.

[Da Skinna]

Set up forts and have Prince Phillipe on stand-by with 600 men!

Wait wha?

[Bovril]

Illegal immigration is another issue, but the most cost effective way to cut drug running is to increase government support for drug rehabiliation. And not to crypto-evangelistic 12 step programs which have never been properly studied to find out their efficacy but they won't allow it to be done.