Should Islam be banned from the West?

[Scar Face]

I'm lazy right now, largely because I think I'm getting a bit sick, so I'm just going to quote myself from the other day for my thoughts on the matter:

Islam is a doctrine, and like all doctrines, it can be abused. Religion is a product of its Culture, and a culture a product of its religion. Christianity was a brutal, reactionary faith, in a brutal and reactionary time- centuries ago. Our society developed, and our religion did along with it. Islamic society did not evolve, and therefore the religion and its adherents follow a barbaric culture, and take a barbaric interpretation of it's scripture. It's scripture, again, like Christianity, can be interpreted for the good or the bad.

Make no mistake however, that as long as Islamic countries are dominated by extremism, so long as their societies are literally hundreds of years behind us in development, Islam does bring violence with it. Violence against women, against the natives, against the state. Islam is not compatible with the West, not in its current form. Period. Boot them out of our countries, kill those who try to resist. Close the ****ing gates, because this whole notion of Multiculturalism became a cruel joke a long god damn time ago, because its very apparent to everyone, that we all hate each other, want to kill each other. Why pretend or delude ourselves?

Just wait a few years and you will all see.

[Barry Goldwater]

Radical and harmful sects (if not outright heresies) like Wahhabism...sure.

Ordinary Islam, followed by moderates? I think not.

[Treize]

Not really, but multiculturalism is a ing lie!

[The Dude]

Islam in general should not be banned from the west, but there should be restrictions on how Islam is expressed. As it stands, our idea of freedom of speech provides muslims far bigger room to maneuver in than it does us.

I don't think Islam is compatible with the west at all, if the muslim in question intends to practice it like they do in the middle east. But there are plenty of ways to believe in allah and still be a modern western individual. Something that many muslims apparently do not understand at all.

I believe that for all its faults, western culture is inherently superior to muslim culture. That's the main reason why I am against unbridled expression of Islam in the west. It will drag us down.

[dogukan]

Islam in general should not be banned from the west, but there should be restrictions on how Islam is expressed. As it stands, our idea of freedom of speech provides muslims far bigger room to maneuver in than it does us.

I don't think Islam is compatible with the west at all, if the muslim in question intends to practice it like they do in the middle east. But there are plenty of ways to believe in allah and still be a modern western individual. Something that many muslims apparently do not understand at all.

I believe that for all its faults, western culture is inherently superior to muslim culture. That's the main reason why I am against unbridled expression of Islam in the west. It will drag us down.

there we have one more.....Western culture vs Muslim culture. Additionally the word "superior" is involved when comparing something like "CULTURE". The whole thing about culture is that it DEPENDS on the FRIGGIN view therefore you can not calculate it's awesomeness.
What do I mean?
Many African cultures in the 19th century were "inferior" to western culture ACCORDING to westerns. And so they imposed their own culture on their ruining them totally and causing the problems they face today.
How were they inferior though? They had their own religion...their own rules, laws, ways of living. Just because we have a different view does not mean they are inferior.

In MuslimvsWest case there is another ridicolous thing. There is no ONE Muslim culture. A Muslim's way of living in Iran and in Turkey and in Morroco is pretty damn different. When "modern" ideas such as secularism is involved we have the "INDIVIDUALISM" at hand. Because it bring a free will to a certain degree and as a result objectivity. Do you think if west was under rule of Church like in Medieval age, would it be still superior? What would be it's superiortiy in your own words to Muslim world(asking this an an objective person)? But why should a a radical Muslim care about this? His view is different and his culture is superior....can you do the judgement for him?

You see this is a very arguable thing and your narrow mindedness annoyed me. Though I personally believe radical side should be wiped out.
Muslims are not infeior though, I'll give you that.

[Scar Face]

Dogukan: Relativism is wrong. Morality has absolutes, social values have absolutes. Humans can- must- evaluate their surroundings and determine their validity as a way of life, doctrine, accuracy etc. Islam has been judged and it has been found lacking. Maybe your relative crap would have legitimacy ten years ago, maybe even five. Not really anymore. As for Africa, the civil wars are based on ethnic, tribal, and religious grounds. Not because of Culture. Their problems are their own, though Europe's poor nation building added to it, their culture is as blood thirsty as it always was.

[dogukan]

Dogukan: Relativism is wrong. Morality has absolutes, social values have absolutes. Humans can- must- evaluate their surroundings and determine their validity as a way of life, doctrine, accuracy etc. Islam has been judged and it has been found lacking. Maybe your relative crap would have legitimacy ten years ago, maybe even five. Not really anymore. As for Africa, the civil wars are based on ethnic, tribal, and religious grounds. Not because of Culture. Their problems are their own, though Europe's poor nation building added to it, their culture is as blood thirsty as it always was.

Seeing the relativity and acting accordingly is not wrong in my case. And since no one has problems it is I take it as the "right way" while your way of thinking would not be as universal as mine.
And yes humans should adapt their surroundings and that is why I say extremism should be wiped off. I doubt a non-extremist Muslim would cause any problems related to religious issues whereas it is likely that they might contribute to crime rates because of their educational background.

How do I prove mt point? Turkey is a secualr Muslim country...Netherlands too is a secular country and it is Christian. Walk into an university in both countries and you won't see a great difference. Did that myself

[The Dude]

there we have one more.....Western culture vs Muslim culture. Additionally the word "superior" is involved when comparing something like "CULTURE". The whole thing about culture is that it DEPENDS on the FRIGGIN view therefore you can not calculate it's awesomeness.
What do I mean?
Many African cultures in the 19th century were "inferior" to western culture ACCORDING to westerns. And so they imposed their own culture on their ruining them totally and causing the problems they face today.
How were they inferior though? They had their own religion...their own rules, laws, ways of living. Just because we have a different view does not mean they are inferior.

Western society has:
More respect for human rights.
More respect for animal rights.
Fairer laws.
Secular governments.
Freedom of speech.
Higher level of scientific thinking.
Better workers mentality.

There is a reason the west is home to the most well developed countries in the world. Compared to any other region on the planet earth, the west is where it happens. Where changes are made. Where progress is made. Where people can deploy themselves.

There's no reason to be shy about this. We are the best because we think the best and we behave the best. I'm not saying that other geographical regions can't accomplish the same. I'm certain Asia can, for example. But if we're talking about countries where muslim culture is dominant, it can't even compare to the things that we have accomplished. The west reaps the rewards from its own labours. The middle east reaps no rewards because it sows nothing.

so you think that Muslims follow the same type of Islam the world over?

No I'm certain that there are many different types of Islam. Just none of the constructive, progressive variety. It was a religion invented by a passionate, easy to anger, hotheaded people. So that's what it will in nature remain.

[Babur]

No I'm certain that there are many different types of Islam. Just none of the constructive, progressive variety.

Then you have never heard of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan,he was progressive.

[dogukan]

Western society has:
More respect for human rights.
More respect for animal rights.
Fairer laws.
Secular governments.
Freedom of speech.
Higher level of scientific thinking.
Better workers mentality.

There is a reason the west is home to the most well developed countries in the world. Compared to any other region on the planet earth, the west is where it happens. Where changes are made. Where progress is made. Where people can deploy themselves.

There's no reason to be shy about this. We are the best because we think the best and we behave the best. I'm not saying that other geographical regions can't accomplish the same. I'm certain Asia can, for example. But if we're talking about countries where muslim culture is dominant, it can't even compare to the things that we have accomplished. The west reaps the rewards from its own labours. The middle east reaps no rewards because it sows nothing.

No I'm certain that there are many different types of Islam. Just none of the constructive, progressive variety.

Well as a western minded person, I'll agree with what you say. But that does not mean I should not see the relativity and see myself as superior. I say again, we all look through the our cultural goggles and see it according to that. Thats why someone from a different culture might not like the progress because of having different values, philosophies, laws, religions etc.
I find it rather silly when you connect the "advance" of western culture to Christianity. For me a religion is a religion...and if religion is dominant that culture does not progress in my view. Whereas you say Muslim world does not develop because they're Muslim. Not because religion is dominant in most of their culture. So you mean if Christianity was dominant in western culture, it would be developed...and history shows that this is not true.
Note that I'm from a Muslim culture and so are most of my friends. Do I sound like inferior(except my English which is obviously not my native language)? I hope not.....I'd like to add that a lot of mt friends are like this. And they're all from this culture. What are you going to say about that?

[Babur]

Islam in general should not be banned from the west, but there should be restrictions on how Islam is expressed. As it stands, our idea of freedom of speech provides muslims far bigger room to maneuver in than it does us.

I don't think Islam is compatible with the west at all, if the muslim in question intends to practice it like they do in the middle east. But there are plenty of ways to believe in allah and still be a modern western individual. Something that many muslims apparently do not understand at all.

I believe that for all its faults, western culture is inherently superior to muslim culture. That's the main reason why I am against unbridled expression of Islam in the west. It will drag us down.

so you think that Muslims follow the same type of Islam the world over? :hmmm:

[dogukan]

cults should be shut and Imams should be checked by the government and should be well educated.
There, problem solved.

[Dr. Croccer]

Radical imams and the like should be kicked out, along with all other extremists that preach harm to something. The vast majority of muslims, however, are not like this, ergo imposing such laws on them is ridiculous.

[Holger Danske]

Radical imams and the like should be kicked out, along with all other extremists that preach harm to something. The vast majority of muslims, however, are not like this, ergo imposing such laws on them is ridiculous.

Yeah, lemme guess here. The same day that some western country actually does this you'll be all over it with the typical: OMFA NAZISM!!!



Multiculturalism, in general, is a failure, and while we're at, is it just a simple coincident that the vast majority of the problems with immigrants comes from those of Muslim origin? I'm just wondering here!...

That being said I do actually agree with your post because there are actually a lot of people with Muslim backgrounds, that try hard to integrate into their new surroundings, and get the acceptance from their neighbours... And I have the highest respect for these people! Especially if they aren't fanatical about their believe and actually can see the humor in making fun of religion. These people are awesome! The other half is just scum and useless drain for the Western world...

[The Dude]

Multiculturalism is not a failure. There are plenty cultures that blend perfectly well with the west. You know why? Because they don't have a holy book telling them what to do all the time.

Islam in the west, THAT is a failure.

Again, you're showing countries that have practically reached 100% Islamization. They are taught extremism at birth, and are lead by organized militant Islamists.

I wonder, why are the only religiously extremist countries on earth muslim? And better yet, why are they in such great supply?

[Ran]

I wonder, why are the only religiously extremist countries on earth muslim? And better yet, why are they in such great supply?

Think about that one for a while. Why is Islamic fundamentalism rising? Just for the lulz? Or was there something or someone that instigated it?

[The Dude]

Think about that one for a while. Why is Islamic fundamentalism rising? Just for the lulz? Or was there something or someone that instigated it?

Oh yeah, it's all our fault. Of course. "Hey our countries are being overrun by angry extremists, our subways are being bombed and our skyscrapers are being flattened but hey, we had it coming!" And besides, if you look at Islamic republics in the middle east, their history often dates back to times from before western presence. They do this all to themselves.

[Modern Crusader]

Think about that one for a while. Why is Islamic fundamentalism rising? Just for the lulz? Or was there something or someone that instigated it?

Yes; the existence of non-Muslims. I suggest you read the Hadith and the Quran. And that happened way before the Crusades, European colonialism, the Arab-Israeli conflict, Iraq war, etc...

[Arto]

That being said I do actually agree with your post because there are actually a lot of people with Muslim backgrounds, that try hard to integrate into their new surroundings, and get the acceptance from their neighbors... And I have the highest respect for these people! Especially if they aren't fanatical about their believe and actually can see the humor in making fun of religion. These people are awesome! The other half is just scum and useless drain for the Western world...

It's that what the other posters have been trying to telling you since page 1!

[Draco Borealis]

It depends if you regard Islam as religion or the totalitarian ideology like nazism or comunism. Well nazism is banned in Germany and nobody even dare to call this ridiculus. Can islam be reformmed to drop all this (ism) parts like ummah, jihad, dhiminate or sharia law or not? I don't see this is hapening frankly. Multicultism which is in reality expanson of Saudi financed wahabism on western societes is just fig leaf for cultural colonialism. Drop the death penalty for apostasy from islam in Arab countries for example and I will consider multicultism as more than apeasment and ruse.