The trouble with Imams

**Viking Prince** · March 09, 2009, 03:11 AM

The trouble with ~~Harry~~ Imams. Pardon the pun from Alfred Hitchcock’s movie title. I seem to be unable to hang onto my initial Imam when playing the Turks. He keeps turning up as a heretic whatever I do and wherever I put him. If he stays close to home, he turns into a heretic. If I walk him into Orthodox territory controlled by the Byzantine Empire, he turns into a heretic. If the good Imam remains inside the town of Iconium contemplating the great religious questions, he turns into a heretic. Meanwhile to create more high level Imams (or at least high enough to call for a Jihad) seems to take way more time than for a Catholic faction to create a Cardinal. Maybe I am just a bit impatient. Maybe there is a problem with Turkish Imams. I do not know the answer. So how do I resolve my trouble with Imams????

I have tried to produce more imams by building a religious infrastructure with the other settlements, but all I seem to produce is single level piety Imams which are not near powerful enough to combat the two and three level heretics spawning throughout the empire. Needless to mention, without an ability to call Jihad, the options for the Turks are severely limited. I do not want to do the abusive sack and run of the blitz, but really!!

**eisx** · March 09, 2009, 06:29 AM

Join your important imam an army with a family member. Maybe it helps. It's just a tip.

**Viking Prince** · March 09, 2009, 06:38 AM

I will give it a try. I have no idea why I have not tried that yet. Thanks. Will report back in a day or so with the results.

**Ascarona** · March 09, 2009, 09:09 AM

I have had them turn to Heretics alot as well, but i haven't found a solution either.

**Silent Assassin** · March 09, 2009, 10:41 AM

Be patient, they will take more time to train than Cardinal but they will. It's a bit harder with Iams a bit like anything in M2TW playing as Muslim factions. Build you Muslim churchs ASAP will help I always try to do so in the same time as I try to upgrade my economy, it's not easy but patience is the key word here.

For the member whio stated to put in in an army with the family member is a good idea but he won't become better as fast as in other religious regions that way. The same goes for keeping them in your cities.

**magicgunnar** · March 09, 2009, 01:00 PM

I guess you are already building all the Imams in the same city to get a Theological Guild, that improves your Imams.

**Neige** · March 09, 2009, 01:42 PM

I have been playing Turks for a few days (Vanilla) now and I'm almost done. Trough all the play I had my Imams turning into heretics only for some 4-5 times. Most of my Imams have very high piety level, and I'v called Jihad for some 4 times witch was very helpful. So.. I guess it's the randomness of M2, that makes the campaign so different for players. Anyway Islamic factions are quite hard to play.

All I can suggest you is to train assassins. I am sure I have killed at least 100 people during my campaign. It helped me to get rid of enemy priests, cardinals, heretics etc. I even managed to kill most of the mongolian generals. And the best part of it all is that a low level islamic assassin can kill a high level priest or heretic. So, try it.

**Viking Prince** · March 09, 2009, 02:09 PM

I would prefer to not use assassins, but I can see that as temp fix to some problems but too expediant. The problem is the initial turns when a Jihad can give the Turks a chance to get out of the florin cash balance cellar. I get one Jihad onto Antioch and another called by Egypt and nothing else for the first 40 turns. This is not the case with the Moors or Egypt. I see nothing in the settlement stats that indicates the Turks to have such a special problem.

**Commander5xl** · March 09, 2009, 07:07 PM

actually I had the same problem with the Moors, I pumped out so many imams i got the Theologians GQ guild by turn 20, and although some Imams have huge piety levels if you send them in a province or they stay in 1 place long enough they turn Heretic, its exceptionally a pain when you got one with maxed piety turning Heretic so you basically gotta send 4 med level imams to counter them, and only way to get rid of them is to get lucky, and half the time you get more heretics because of the other immas turning heretic after trying to get rid of him. Ive only ever had a dozen or so priests turn heretic in my games, it hasnt been an issue but with Muslim factions they just cant stay on 1 religion =l theologians HQ didnt even seem to help with their "loyalty factor" i call it when they turn heretic, and for some reason its usually AFTER the province has been converted and has like 75% islam, THEN they turn heretic ringing it back down

**baabaaloo** · March 09, 2009, 07:27 PM

try putting them on a boat

**Old Geezer** · March 09, 2009, 07:49 PM

I have at times seen rather large numbers of heretics in the Near East in Muslim territories but never thought too much about it. Even when I get there as a catholic faction and get over 50 percent catholic population it seems that the territories spawn more heretics. I hardly ever get any in the British Isles or in Iberia. I seem to see more in France and Germany. Could there be some factor related to the territory that is hard coded?

**Viking Prince** · March 09, 2009, 11:24 PM

Ok -- I tried the escort service with a general or family member. It seems to make a bit of difference but not enough to matter. it does seem to help the piety of the general, but not so much the Imam's hollfing to the true faith.

If the general is on Jihad, however, that seems to make the critical difference. The Turks even geet a more pious Imam or two or three in the process, a piety halo upon completion of the Jihad. Does not seem to work joining a Jihad stack in process though. Put the Imams into the stack with the general and then get the general to make the join the Jihad in progress announcement.

I would be curious if others have observed similar or differant behavior.

Regards,

VP

**2-D Ron** · March 09, 2009, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Viking Prince

The trouble with ~~Harry~~ Imams. Pardon the pun from Alfred Hitchcock’s movie title. I seem to be unable to hang onto my initial Imam when playing the Turks. He keeps turning up as a heretic whatever I do and wherever I put him. If he stays close to home, he turns into a heretic. If I walk him into Orthodox territory controlled by the Byzantine Empire, he turns into a heretic. If the good Imam remains inside the town of Iconium contemplating the great religious questions, he turns into a heretic. Meanwhile to create more high level Imams (or at least high enough to call for a Jihad) seems to take way more time than for a Catholic faction to create a Cardinal. Maybe I am just a bit impatient. Maybe there is a problem with Turkish Imams. I do not know the answer. So how do I resolve my trouble with Imams????

I have tried to produce more imams by building a religious infrastructure with the other settlements, but all I seem to produce is single level piety Imams which are not near powerful enough to combat the two and three level heretics spawning throughout the empire. Needless to mention, without an ability to call Jihad, the options for the Turks are severely limited. I do not want to do the abusive sack and run of the blitz, but really!!

A Bug in the Building of Temples?
Bigger Mosques should give you a boost as well as putting them in places where Islam is the minority religion in that region?