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  1. #1

    Default Combating BC gang violence

    Very interesting article basically saying what we all know.

    "Gangs have been with us forever," Prof. Neil Boyd wrote Saturday in his Globe essay on gangs, violence and how to stop it

    "Alienated and disenfranchised young men find a common bond in lawlessness, using crime as a lever for the creation of material wealth.

    "Recall Daniel Day Lewis's character in Gangs of New York, a reasonably accurate depiction of gang violence in New York City in the 1860s — and then fast-forward to the streets of Vancouver, where there has been almost a shooting a day for the past two weeks . . . [mostly related to gang wars over the drug trade.]

    "For the past 30 years, we have continued to use criminal prohibition as our primary response to the distribution and possession of these drugs.

    "Unfortunately, prohibition hands the responsibility for product quality and price over to the gangs, providing them with lucrative and guaranteed profitability.

    "It is entirely fair to say, given this backdrop, that our policies serve to line the pockets of often thuggish drug dealers.

    "It must also be said, however, that each legal or illegal drug is different, carrying its own risks and potential harms.

    "The greatest irony of our current reality is that individuals are now being shot to death over the trade in cannabis, but it is almost impossible to die from consumption of the drug itself.

    "Ironically, we attach moral condemnation to the consumption and distribution of cannabis, but not to tobacco, a drug with a greater addictive potential, more negative health consequences and unparalleled morbidity."


    Prof. Boyd then notes: "This takes us to the present, and the federal government's response to gang violence, particularly the recent spate of killings in the city of Vancouver.

    "For some, the proposed legislation might seem impressive: a new category of first-degree murder for any killing by a gang member, a new mandatory minimum for drive-by shootings, and some new minimum penalties for illegal drug distribution.

    "But put yourself in the position of a gang member on the streets of Vancouver. He is already carrying a handgun and willing to use it on his adversaries; he is already willing to kill and to risk being killed. He's not at all involved in any consideration of the severe penalties for his crimes, already set out in the Criminal Code . . .

    "The new legislation will also provide much grist for the mills of lawyers. When is an individual properly classified in law as a gang member? What are the constituent elements of a drive-by shooting? What kind of intent is required for conviction for a first-degree gang killing? These questions will almost certainly occupy the time of Crown counsel, defence counsel and the judiciary.

    "And there is no evidence that making sentences more severe will bring us a greater social safety. T hat should be, after all, the goal of any action that we take.

    "The keys to success in responding to gang violence," Prof. Byers argues, "have nothing to do with changing penalties, and everything to do with more effective enforcement and more effective prevention."

    Whether you agree or not, it's a provocative argument so we at globeandmail.com are pleased that Prof. Boyd will be online Monday from noon to 1 p.m. ET to take your questions on his essay, on gang violence in general and the Harper government's new legislation.

    Join the Conversation at that time or submit your questions in advance.

    Your questions and Prof. Boyd's answers will appear at the bottom of this page when the discussion begins.

    Neil Boyd is an author and a professor at Simon Fraser University, where he teaches courses related to law, crime and criminal justice policy.

    His comments appear often in the national media, and he is frequently heard on Canadian radio and television.

    He has worked on a wide variety of research projects and has written six books for both national and international markets.

    He is currently working on his seventh book, co-authored with Senator Larry Campbell, the former mayor of Vancouver, and Vancouver Sun writer Lori Culbert. The Campbell, Culbert and Boyd collaboration The Downtown Eastside will be published by Greystone Books in 2009.
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  2. #2
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    I've been to Vancouver and I'm ing shocked, I thought it was gorgeous and probably the nicest city I've ever been too.

    This was of course, in 2006, but still, when the hell did this happen? Last place in the world I'd ever think would go shooting crazy.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Osceola View Post
    I've been to Vancouver and I'm ing shocked, I thought it was gorgeous and probably the nicest city I've ever been too.

    This was of course, in 2006, but still, when the hell did this happen? Last place in the world I'd ever think would go shooting crazy.
    Indo-Canadian inter-gang warfare, but throw some Mexicans in there and wam! Today's Vancouver.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  4. #4

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Skinna View Post
    Indo-Canadian inter-gang warfare, but throw some Mexicans in there and wam! Today's Vancouver.
    Indo meaning Indians from the subcontinent or aboriginal populations? Since Indian immigrants tend to be rather well off, I have a hard time picturing them as part of gangs to a substantial extent.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    @Da Skinna

    Quote Originally Posted by Xantrip View Post
    Indo meaning Indians from the subcontinent or aboriginal populations? Since Indian immigrants tend to be rather well off, I have a hard time picturing them as part of gangs to a substantial extent.
    That, and @Scarface(a Canadian) was taking about them being a minority in Canada(and something about kicking them out, or something like that).

    EDIT: your resonse to @Xantrips post refers to "Aboriginals" as well.

    Im just ???? and now even more, something like ???????
    Last edited by Thorn777; March 08, 2009 at 10:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  6. #6

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    @Da Skinna



    That, and @Scarface(a Canadian) was taking about them being a minority in Canada.

    EDIT: your resonse to @Xantrips post refers to "Aboriginals" as well.
    I wouldn't listen to Scarface on issues of race and ethnicity...

    Because of the way they've been treated, Natives now have the highest rates of suicide, alcoholism, abuse and the lowest lifespan of any Canadian. The conditions they live in are appalling in many places. This leads to a very bad relationship with other Canadians and the government in particular.

    Amends are slow, only fairly recently has Prime Minister Harper officially apologized for the treatment in the schools they were forced into. To "teach the Indian out of them" I think it was coined.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  7. #7

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Most of the Indian gangsters are more or less suburban bored kids. And we'd call them Native or Aboriginal or First Nations here.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Whats up with Aboriginals in Canada anyway? I first heard of that a couple of weeks ago on TWC.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  9. #9

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Whats up with Aboriginals in Canada anyway? I first heard of that a couple of weeks ago on TWC.
    What are you talking about?

    I'm meaning Indian from the sub-Continent... real Indian, East Indian.

    What did you hear about Aboriginals?
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  10. #10
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    This is absolutely shocking to me. I've been to Vancouver, and I've never seen anything remotely even hinting at this. It just goes to show you that you can have gangs and terrible crime anywhere in the world, sadly.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Lol, I get it. No no, we call them Aboriginals here too. Or Natives, or First Nations... lol, you're sully!
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Skinna View Post
    Lol, I get it. No no, we call them Aboriginals here too. Or Natives, or First Nations... lol, you're sully!
    lol, I guessed that, but always thought they where called "natives" etc.


    The picture in my mind of a Australian Aboriginal freezing in Canada boggled my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  13. #13

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    They wouldn't last with their boomerang at all.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

  14. #14
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    What university did Prof. Neil Boyd go to? Because I can absolutely guarantee you now that I can get a doctorate there in less than two years.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Combating BC gang violence

    simply... wow....

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