In what details is the movie '300' inaccurate?

[Aziel]

I know the movie '300' is very inaccurate - I know that "generally speaking". I don't know what exactly is inaccurate in the movie (or the novle).

I do know that presenting the Spartans as the defenders of freedom and peace while presenting the Persians as monsters and tyrants is mistaken from the foundations. About 90%-85% of Sparta's population, the Helots, were enslaved by the rest of the people who populated Sparta, and just like in the Persian empire, slavery pretty much prospered in the Greek city-states.

What else? What about the costums of the Spartan warriors and the Persian warriors?

[John I Tzimisces]

Well the rights of women are grossly overstated for the spartans. They were given such good treatment for the purpose of, well, yes, they wanted healthy children. As many as humanly possible. Women who bore more children got better treatment than those who didn't, and still didn't get to choose a spouse. This still did not alleviate sparta's chronic manpower shortage as time went on.
Furthermore the movie leaves out the part of a young spartan's training that had him paired with an older man in that semi-homosexual teacher-student relationship that was reflected elsewhere in the Greek world which would have started in his...early teens I think.
And lets not leave out the ephors who, rather than being perverted inbred old priests, were an elected council of 5 who upheld the dual kingship of sparta (also left out) and presided over sparta's lawmaking body, as the two kings were not prone to always agreeing.

[Babur]

I know the movie '300' is very inaccurate - I know that "generally speaking". I don't know what exactly is inaccurate in the movie (or the novle).

I do know that presenting the Spartans as the defenders of freedom and peace while presenting the Persians as monsters and tyrants is mistaken from the foundations. About 90%-85% of Sparta's population, the Helots, were enslaved by the rest of the people who populated Sparta, and just like in the Persian empire, slavery pretty much prospered in the Greek city-states.

What else? What about the costums of the Spartan warriors and the Persian warriors?

Don't forget that the Persians freed your people from captivity in Babylonia too

[Aziel]

Cyrus was awesome! According to the Bible not all Jews returned from exile. These greedy j00z enjoyed what the gained in Babylon.

I am not so sure, as I have watched the movie a few months ago, but doesn't it say that the Persians were defeated because of the Spartans' bravery and blah-blah-blah?

[Babur]

Cyrus was awesome! According to the Bible not all Jews returned from exile. These greedy j00z enjoyed what the gained in Babylon.

I am not so sure, as I have watched the movie a few months ago, but doesn't it say that the Persians were defeated because of the Spartans' bravery and blah-blah-blah?

Indeed Cyrus-e-Buzurg was a great ruler who respected other religions and cultures.

While the film 300 portrays one of his sucessors, Xerxes I as representing "mysticism and tyranny" which to me reflects an orientalist's view of "The East".

[Pallantides]

Cyrus-e-Buzurg
.

Now we know were Tolkien got his Orc names from.

[Aziel]

Or maybe it represents the way the Greeks saw the 'Barbarians'.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Or maybe, the movie was based on a comic book and looking for historical accuracy there is a stretch?

So, in short, it would be way easier to call the thread " In what details is the movie '300' might be accurate?"

Ahh, Odo was faster...

[Babur]

Or maybe it represents the way the Greeks saw the 'Barbarians'.

Indeed

Perhaps, the Romans inherited and built upon this view of the Persians when they faced the Parthians and Sassanids.

[Odovacar]

Maybe. But not exactly.
The greeks were more intelligent than hollywood filmmakers and comics drawers.

[conon394]

About 90%-85% of Sparta's population, the Helots

Well now let’s not correct one inaccuracy with another. The Spartans did represent a small minority of the overall population of Lakonia – the residual were not just helots. A big chunk of the non Spartan population was Perioikoi and also over time partially disenfranchised Spartans and as with Athens not a few resettled political exiles… It also worth considering that there was a real difference between the non-Spartan Messenians (of either type) and the non-equals of Lakonia. The Helots and Perioikoi of Lakonia remained rather loyal to the state.

What else? What about the costums of the Spartan warriors

No argument here – they were rather bad – but than again the movie was based on a comic book and not the Oxford History of the Classical World

[Aziel]

Rufats: Well, someone who is not familiar with Greek history at all might get the impression the movie is historically accurate.

The Helots and Perioikoi of Lakonia remained rather loyal to the state.

But they did try to rebel a number of times, right?

[neoptolemos]

Rufats: Well, someone who is not familiar with Greek history at all might get the impression the movie is historically accurate.


But they did try to rebel a number of times, right?

Spartans were brave and fearsome but this was an evolution due to the nature of their state.
A Dorian elite,Spartans,were dominant over a population of Dorian perioikoi and Achaeans and Helots.
It was vital for them to be as fearsome as we know them today.

Just for the record Spartan state was not a militaristic one from it's beginning!
Their militaristric life was heavily inspired by the Cretan Dorian communities
(Cretans even today are the most warlike people amongst Greeks!)

[dogukan]

there is also the time when Greeks pull their swords and slaughter Persians....I doubt if they could stand if they broke their ranks.

[conon394]

But they did try to rebel a number of times, right?

Depends on how you mean that. As I said the Messenians did rebel but they had a separate national identity and even they aside from the great revolt after the mid fifth century earthquake did not rise up dramatically until Thebes had already beaten Sparta to impotence. The population of Lakonia remained loyal to Sparta on the whole.

Edit: getting back to the original question and stepping aside form the Persians (and of course the war rhinos) the two biggest inaccuracies are the minimization of other Greeks present, and most glaringly of all the fact that Thermopylae was a holding action so that the Greek fleet could fight at Artemisium. To fair however that particular bit of innacuracy has been stoked by the Greek aristocratic crowd since almost before Leonidas was stiff

[Larry Blackmon's Codpiece]

Leonidas died quite early in the battle. I laughed when I found that out.

[conon394]

Leonidas died quite early in the battle. I laughed when I found that out.

Huh - he died early during the 3rd day. That's over 2/3 of the way - you have a strange definition of quite early.

[patrick1191]

The smoking goat?

[DAVIDE]

I know the movie '300' is very inaccurate - I know that "generally speaking". I don't know what exactly is inaccurate in the movie (or the novle).

I do know that presenting the Spartans as the defenders of freedom and peace while presenting the Persians as monsters and tyrants is mistaken from the foundations. About 90%-85% of Sparta's population, the Helots, were enslaved by the rest of the people who populated Sparta, and just like in the Persian empire, slavery pretty much prospered in the Greek city-states.

What else? What about the costums of the Spartan warriors and the Persian warriors?

the armoured dinosaurs?

[Phoebus]

Where to start, where to start...

To begin with, the Spartans would have been better armored. The lack of torso body armor is an especially glaring omission. The 300 themselves would not have marched off by themselves--they would have been accompanied by three times as many Perioikoi--Lacedaemonians, but not full Spartans--as well as a similar number of helot serfs.

Where the final battle itself is concerned, the Spartans would have been accompanied by the Thespians and the Thebans--they were not alone.

The Persian line infantry are not depicted as they should be, but they are far better represented than the Immortals. Far from being alien-looking creatures in masks, the Immortals would have been the best-looking of the Persians, in armor and armament as lavish as their clothing. Xerxes himself would not have looked as sensational/outlandish (take your pick).

Ephialtes was not a monstrous hunchback. Frank Miller knew that, though, and his monstrousness was intended to be allegorical.

A couple of points of contention I have...

I do know that presenting the Spartans as the defenders of freedom and peace while presenting the Persians as monsters and tyrants is mistaken from the foundations. ...

The movie itself is told from the perspective of the Spartans, and is thus far from unrealistic--except for the depiction of monstrous Immortals and a freak-show royal court for Xerxes. To the Spartans, the Persians were tyrants, though. Their viewpoint may have been hypocritical, but the movie doesn't fail in showing this; it fails in not showing the helots and their lot.

About 90%-85% of Sparta's population, the Helots, were enslaved by the rest of the people who populated Sparta, ...

I don't think so. Well, here's why, at least:

To begin with, we can't know the actual number of the helots. At the time, though, Sparta was able to field 8-10,000 hoplites, which equates to the male population minus underaged boys and men past the age of service. That obviously does not include all the females. It also doesn't include Perioikoi, who likely counted at least as many men, women and children among them as the Spartans. All those added together might have been 60,000 or more people. Using the 10% figure above, is it possible that Lacedaemon counted 300,000 (never mind 600,000 or so) people?

Well the rights of women are grossly overstated for the spartans.

Are they? What Spartan woman are given access to? Gorgo, a queen, and her movie counterpart doesn't behave in a way that's unreasonable given what we know about her.

They were given such good treatment for the purpose of, well, yes, they wanted healthy children. As many as humanly possible. Women who bore more children got better treatment than those who didn't, ...

I don't recall ever hearing/reading that. I recall that the Spartans chastised men who failed to procure offspring, but nothing of women.

This still did not alleviate sparta's chronic manpower shortage as time went on.

Much of that had to do with the gradual disenfranchisement of much of the Spartan landowning class, not with reproductive practices.

Furthermore the movie leaves out the part of a young spartan's training that had him paired with an older man in that semi-homosexual teacher-student relationship that was reflected elsewhere in the Greek world which would have started in his...early teens I think.

According to whom? Plutarch? Xenophon lived among Spartans, and qualified that sexual relations between mentors and students was viewed as akin to a parent doing the same.