Enemy army size

[Iósua]

Does the campaign difficulty setting determine the size of enemy faction armies? I'm frustrated by the ridiculous sizes of enemy armies. How do they afford to recruit and upkeep several massive hordes the way they do?

An unrelated question: Is keeping Order higher than Population Growth the way to combat squalor in settlements? I keep taxes low in some settlements as a means to roleplay chivalrous governors but it seems this creates high squalor.

[caralampio]

It's scripted. The AI receives tons of money and free units every turn to compensate for it being "dumb".

This has been toned down a bit in version 6.2.

[Viscule]

It's scripted. The AI receives tons of money and free units every turn to compensate for it being "dumb".

This has been toned down a bit in version 6.2.

They still receive alot more than the player does. I tried to tweak the files a bit so i got a certain amount of florins per turn and it turns out they gain a gigantic + in the florins they gain per turn. Replaced my files to normal again and tested the console commands, but i have no idea how much they ACTUALLY gain per turn.

They never seem to go below 0 either, unless we (the player) interrupt them.

In patch 6.2 the "less" gain from florins per turn is backed up by their aggressive playstyle and backstabbing. I still think they lack the intelligence to defeat a player that know how to play it effectively. Only so much a computer can do i suppose.

[Bosje]

yes, the money script

I spent the early game developing england, faction rank was just outside top 10 on finance and production etc, but 30something on military. scots attacked me, i went to war with my core of good soldiers plus a mass of levies. we beat both their full stacks and marched into Edinburg. only to find a city twice as large as london, with many higher tier buildings. next turn we arrived at that northern castle, only to find half a stack full of fresh knights

So I removed the money script. Ok so the AI can't handle money. The problem is that they spend all that extra cash they get for free on a load of the best units around while also building up their cities. If I have to choose between building stuff or keeping an army around, then so do they. If I can't raise an excellent army in a short time, then so can't they. After I beat their army in the field, Im just bored to fight another stack next turn. and another after that. I beat their army and I took Edinburg. I won. Wallace arrives and gives me a nice challenge which is fine, apart from that I can't be bothered to fight stack after stack. screw them

it makes the game too easy if you choose to exploit that. I don't. I leave the irish and scots and danes alone. if the scots attack me, I take the opportunity to rid my kingdom of their insolence. They have an army, i have mine. I win. They don't have 3 further armies. Too easy? Whatever, I enjoy my game

[Viscule]

yes, the money script

I spent the early game developing england, faction rank was just outside top 10 on finance and production etc, but 30something on military. scots attacked me, i went to war with my core of good soldiers plus a mass of levies. we beat both their full stacks and marched into Edinburg. only to find a city twice as large as london, with many higher tier buildings. next turn we arrived at that northern castle, only to find half a stack full of fresh knights

So I removed the money script. Ok so the AI can't handle money. The problem is that they spend all that extra cash they get for free on a load of the best units around while also building up their cities. If I have to choose between building stuff or keeping an army around, then so do they. If I can't raise an excellent army in a short time, then so can't they. After I beat their army in the field, Im just bored to fight another stack next turn. and another after that. I beat their army and I took Edinburg. I won. Wallace arrives and gives me a nice challenge which is fine, apart from that I can't be bothered to fight stack after stack. screw them

it makes the game too easy if you choose to exploit that. I don't. I leave the irish and scots and danes alone. if the scots attack me, I take the opportunity to rid my kingdom of their insolence. They have an army, i have mine. I win. They don't have 3 further armies. Too easy? Whatever, I enjoy my game

So you choose to do it the easy way. So you gave up or "cant fight on an equal term". Yes, the script levels the ground between you and the AI.

There is a reason why the AI get the help the modders gave them. Without the money script, i for one would walk over faction after faction. Its pathetic, same in battle. Atleast with it they have a fighting chance.

Yes, it is too easy. But you enjoy it easy, obviously.

Example: Auto-resolve wont help me defeat stacks after stack. I fight my battles like everyone should. I see three stacks the AI has then what? I crush them in one turn depending on how far i can walk, or maybe i have to retreat because something unexpected happened.

Note: Your personality is that of a blitzer. If its not going fast enough you reduce the difficulty.

Not trying to be rude, i just dont like that people give up. (In my eyes it looks like you gave up)

[Bosje]

lol no no you missed my point, although i see i was not very clear

I 'gave up' on those things which I found silly/stupid/rediculous

fighting and defeating those three stacks as you describe is not the problem, the problem is having to fight stack after stack, after you defeated their standing army in the field. so after I dealt a huge blow to the scots by killing their army and seizing their main city... i consider them soundly beaten.

i prefer my games realistic rather than hard by default. if realistic means too easy because of engine / AI limitations I prefer to counteract this by behaving differently. So blitzing is not what I do at all, I prefer to leave those weak nations be. wallace was great, his timing was terrible for me and he put up a good fight. but endless stacks from freebies just get tedious, that's all

conquering and holding on to lands is just too easy and the solution is the money script. fair enough but i didnt like it too much. i'll try again with my fresh install, maybe i'll have a different opinion

edit: so I do in fact fight them on equal terms, because I send an army to match theirs. I could also put my economy on hold, build/maintain 3 armies, kill them all, disband those armies but I choose not to. after I won, I prefer it if i don't have to fight them the next turn, and again and again. if they rebuild something and try to retake edinburg 5 or 10 years later... fine! my army may be otherwise engaged and they can cause real problems. i just don't want them having a whole new generation of nobleman. after all, if i lose all my nobles i'm in trouble for a long time after.
I must claim ignorance here though, i just started with RR etc which makes losing my nobles a problem. but i don't know if RR and BGR apply to the AI as well. i'll have to get back on that after seeing how it plays out in a new campaign

[Gorrrrrn]

I don't think we ever cracked the economic side of the game (and many attempts were made.)

The money script is one way to make sure that the AI has enough money to keep building when its populations get big enough to allow for next tier of buildings. Unfortunately it also allows it to keep building units as well. (And the upkeep swallows the money needed for new buildings unless the money script keeps giving it more.) The money scripts usually kick in when the AI has no "discretionary" spending money - ie when it has spent all its income on units and wages, corruption etc. I'm sure they can be improved, and the RC4 of S6.2 has made further changes.

One option is to strangle the ability to recruit so many units. Tsarsies and PB have been developing recruitment limitation scripts and EDU/EDB combinations to slow down the rate at which the AI and human recruits. Tsarsies also working on a population limitations sub-mod and horse farming as other ways to approach the problem.

These latter are still being developed and tested so you are welcome to try them out and report back.

As for the endless stacks, well if a faction has only a few settlements and you keep the under siege you'll kill them off. Sit and wait long enough without siegeing and the AI will keep building units. The more settlements it has the quicker it can build new stacks. (So avoid making war on big AI factions unless they are ex-commed and you have plenty of allies?)

[Bosje]

ah yes that insightful, thanks. would I be correct if I assume that the RR and assorted submods are a good way to prevent that recruitment?

because obviously without the moneyscript the AI needs little time to kill all the minor factions, making the game less interesting

[Lord Brend]

An unrelated question: Is keeping Order higher than Population Growth the way to combat squalor in settlements? I keep taxes low in some settlements as a means to roleplay chivalrous governors but it seems this creates high squalor.

Squalor is based solely on population size and some Character traits.

[Aranu]

chivalry increases population growth, more growth more peeps, more peeps more squalor

ontopic: i kinda like the huge stacks becaus i like big battles sometimes a bit too much but rather have it this way then AI have nothing ^^

[Iósua]

My problem with the AI getting all these bonus florins is it ruins immersion for me a great deal. I enjoy the realism elements of this game.

An even-matched battle for me is plenty hard for whatever reason. I suspect that without this cheat for the AI, I'd have more fun and still have a decent enough challenge.

Can this extra-cash-for-the-AI thing be disabled somehow?

[Bosje]

you can delete everything in the money script (instructions are somewhere on these forum, a search will help)
but it does seriously harm the AI

currently I am playing with the combo submods of RR, RC, BGR and 6.2 and I find it a lot more enjoyable. The AI still clearly has a lot more cash than I could ever hope to raise but at least they can't spend it on a full stack of knights and other good units because those units simply aren't there after you defeat the initial batch of good troops. which means they have some cash left over which means they dont get another bonus. works for me.

PS in the english campaign I mentioned: the scots had brugges and they had two full stacks sitting around the city. and then they got the gold to raise a half stack of knights to annoy my campaigning army with. if only there was a way to make the AI recruit just one ship and send those full stacks from flanders to, say, London... that would make them a challenge. As it turned out, I recruited a big secondary army (grounding my economy to a complete halt) to defend myself against those scary Flanders stacks, which never arrived, only to find my primary army hassled by 6 companies of knights who came out of nowhere. THAT is what annoyed me so much. When they finally DID invade me from the south, they just sent their heir with 4 spear units.

It's much better with RR/RC/6.2 etc

[Iósua]

\Medieval II Total War\mods\stainless_Steel_6\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\campaign_script.txt


A forum search pointed to that - but what exactly do I delete there so that the AI economy operates like mine? I'm a script dummy.