Firing drills... too effective?

[UniQ]

I have reached fire by ranks and for me they can stand and fire at each other for a long time, not as long as without a drill but still quite a while.

[bobtheubilder]

I read somewhere that firing at maximum range is only a 50% penalty to total accuracy. Considering you can fire a lot more shots starting out from max range rather than waiting for the enemy to get in your face, it almost counteracts the relatively small range penalty.

[General A. Skywalker]

I read somewhere that firing at maximum range is only a 50% penalty to total accuracy. Considering you can fire a lot more shots starting out from max range rather than waiting for the enemy to get in your face, it almost counteracts the relatively small range penalty.

Not good. Firing at max range should cause sth like a 95% penalty to max accuracy! (While accuracy at low range should be very high!)

[Killian]

I have yet to see platoon firing in action....how effective is it?anyone have a few screenshots?

[ilikeicehockey]

I have yet to see platoon firing in action....how effective is it?anyone have a few screenshots?

Supposedly rank is better. I'm also thinking that platoon is only usable by guard units and I just recruited some so I'll be trying it out.

[Ahiga]

I have yet to see platoon firing in action....how effective is it?anyone have a few screenshots?

When I tried it with I think one of the British elite's (Either coldstream or black watch), I saw every man fire when his platoon fired. They seemed to have a slightly staggered formation as to allow every man a venue from which to fire, so that instead of:

Rank 1 Fires
Rank 2 Fires
Rank 3 Fires

It's

Rank 1-A, 2-A, 3-A fires
Rank 1-B, 2-b, 3-b fires
Rank 1-C, 2-c, 3-c fires

ect.

[Quixote07]

When I tried it with I think one of the British elite's (Either coldstream or black watch), I saw every man fire when his platoon fired. They seemed to have a slightly staggered formation as to allow every man a venue from which to fire, so that instead of:

Rank 1 Fires
Rank 2 Fires
Rank 3 Fires

It's

Rank 1-A, 2-A, 3-A fires
Rank 1-B, 2-b, 3-b fires
Rank 1-C, 2-c, 3-c fires

ect.

I've done a bit of testing, and it looks like only the first two ranks fire.

Here's a link to another thread where I did some testing and my results.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=234358&page=2

[Quixote07]

Think about how much it would help tactical decisions, as well. As it stands now being on a column formation (even with volley fire) at maximum range to absorb the first enemy shots, then charging while reforming into line to fire a volley at close range and then charging in to hand to hand combat almost always fails. Traditionally, this was actually a very effective tactic for well disciplined armies to use.

Using the numbers in game as a guide, I think rifle should have a range of 175, and muskets 100. However, the accuracy at those ranges would be under 7% (ish), and the accuracy at 70 range would be 10%, 50 range would be 30%, and 20 range would be 80%+. This is assuming a standard Line Infantry with 45 accuracy.

Think about the game now - there really isn't any way to break a melee charge with firepower, even if you time your volleys perfectly or your fighting militia or worse. The faction this hurts the most, ironically, are the Marathas. European Line Infantry are absolute bastards in melee (especially the british and the french, though why their line infantry is the best in melee I don't know, it's annoying), whereas the Indian musketeers are quite terrible. Dunno why.

What that means is that the AI will almost always charge your Line Infantry as the Marathas, and they'll win. If you bring enough melee units that you could stand a chance against them, they'll outshoot you like the dickens.

Quick tangent - Anyone else think the Bayonet researches should also help the swordsmen? It's not entirely logical, but as it is now they get trounced by European line infantry.


Ninja Edit - The accuracy exponential shift would also make Fire and Advance actually useful! Huzzah!

[General A. Skywalker]

Think about how much it would help tactical decisions, as well. As it stands now being on a column formation (even with volley fire) at maximum range to absorb the first enemy shots, then charging while reforming into line to fire a volley at close range and then charging in to hand to hand combat almost always fails. Traditionally, this was actually a very effective tactic for well disciplined armies to use.

Using the numbers in game as a guide, I think rifle should have a range of 175, and muskets 100. However, the accuracy at those ranges would be under 7% (ish), and the accuracy at 70 range would be 10%, 50 range would be 30%, and 20 range would be 80%+. This is assuming a standard Line Infantry with 45 accuracy.

Think about the game now - there really isn't any way to break a melee charge with firepower, even if you time your volleys perfectly or your fighting militia or worse.

I agree 100%!!! +REP

Seriously, this has to be fixed!!! However, I've lost my hope CA will fix it through a patch.

[Reiver]

Think about the game now - there really isn't any way to break a melee charge with firepower, even if you time your volleys perfectly or your fighting militia or worse.

This is a pretty big issue for me. It's almost as if CA were afraid to move away from a melee based game.

[TheBlobThing]

Gameplay-wise it is also very important to give advantages to a technologically superior faction. When I meet enemy nations with fire drills when I don't have them I almost my pants!

[vampy]

I agree with OP. There should be less accuracy and long range, than there is now, slightly less at medium range, and slightly more at close range. Battles are over slightly to quickly with rank fire, and without it the battles feel just right. However, without ranked fire tactics become unrealistic as you try to take advantage of the fact that only your front line can fire by creating lots of single line regiments.

[Theseus1234]

EDIT: beaten to it
woops

[JaM]

actually there were some battles where trained soldiers were able break infantry charge by fire - look for example at Battle of Quebec - Wolfe's regiments decimated french attack in few salvos, and then made them run after bayonet charge...

[vampy]

Cossacks 2 has an excellent system that could be incorporated into ETW:

When you mouse over a units fire options (in etw it could simply be when you select or mouse over a unit) and overlay of green, yellow, and red appear on the terrain (similar to the white overlay in ETW that shows range), and this shows long, short, and medium range. This would be fabulous!

[Quixote07]

Cossacks 2 has an excellent system that could be incorporated into ETW:

When you mouse over a units fire options (in etw it could simply be when you select or mouse over a unit) and overlay of green, yellow, and red appear on the terrain (similar to the white overlay in ETW that shows range), and this shows long, short, and medium range. This would be fabulous!

I like that idea alot, but only if we can get some accuracy drop off changes too

[shawnyp421]

I love seeing a dozen men fall when I fire off a volley!

[chronobomb]

They need to tone down the Russian grenadiers. Those guys will rule any line formation. If I see them, I just charge because they can rout a unit faster than you can get off 2 volley's.

[Chevalier IX]

hmmm...200 meters does seem a little far...contemporaries of their time and our gauge their muskets at their most effective at a range of perhaps 50 yards,which was to be considered their killing range.200,I suppose there is no reason not to fire in the minds of some,but it does seem a waste of the kings powder when you know you are not really going to affect much damage.I believe this was considered to be amidst the blunders that cost the french the battle of abraham,the ineffectiveness of their initial barrage that is,and I am thinking that was by way of 100 yards.

[Chevalier IX]

Melee still played a rather large role in the combat of the day due to the fact that the commanders still did not fully buy into the idea of shockless warfare,believing that this was the way to dislodge your foe from their position,rather than a slog fest of prolonged musketry.