The Hungarian Hussar – A Magyar Huszár

[Odovacar]

It's time to talk about the hussars themselves not their name.

Some battles in which hungarian hussars participated:

Battle of Kolin: 1757
10 regiments on austrian side
2 regiments on prussian

Count Miklós Eszterházy was awarded with Maria Theresia order for bravery and various officers with other awards. A hussar carried the news of victory to Vienna.

1758 Battle of Zorndorf
15 squadron hussar led by Pál Werner and Tivadar János Rüsch. While Rüsch was punished because his unruly men foraged in the battle and broke the discipline, Werner was awarded with pour la Merite by Frederick II.

1760 Torgau
Several regiments (about 10) on austrian and several on prussian side.
The oberster of Karl Herzog Regiment, József Orosz lost his horse, grabbed the austrian flag on foot and ordered advance, then his troath was pierced with a bayonett, he got caught, but later recovered and was ransomed.

Hungarian hussars fought at Rocroux, Fontenoy Dettingen, Leuthen, Poltava (swedish side) and in countless other battles. Also they fought in the american civil war (for the Union) and in the War of Independence.

[snipa]

snipa, I suggest you to calm down. I do not know why it hurts your national pride that gusars originated in Serbia, primarily as a counter to Turkish light horse tactics. After fall of central Serbian lands in 1459. they continued to operate from southern Hungary (present day north Serbia), under command of Serbian nobles who had estates in southern Hungary and even held titles of Despots of Serbia, under patronage of Hungarian kings. They were very successful in riding Ottoman territory (numerous raiding campaigns it will be too much to post here).

So, they originated as Serbian unit, but they earned world fame as Hungarian hussars. Why is that so bad for your national pride?

It is very well established fact, included in DBA board games fanatics looong before PC games were there. You are welcomed to do some research. That is why gusars are included as Serbian unit in all MTW mods with Serbia as a faction.

i suggest you to show me your evidence that huszar(hussar) was used in serbia before 1403! why do you belive its hurt me
if hussars come from serbia? no, just because u had gusars which is originaly a serbian type of cavalries its not mean they
were the base of hungarian hussars... or should we continue? gusasr come from byzantine corsairs? byzantine corsairs come
from seldjuk "xy"? etc etc?
its a funy theory! every nation create their own type of cavalries!

gusars != hussars

Hungarians had always light cavalries, maybe they had one of the best light cavalries in europe at this time. You shoud check
the hungarian history from 9th century (or if u want u can also check the tactif of scythians, huns and avars). In 9-10th century
hungarian army had only light cavalries without heavy cavalries and without infantries. From 11th century hungarians
had more type of light cavalries, the base was hungarian/szekler light cavalries and got others from pechenegs, cumans and jasz! All
of them were horse archers. Any "famous" light cavalries in serbia from this times?
In 14th century there were many hungarian mercenary companies who was named as corsairs by italians... This mercenary companies
had mostly light cavalries.

Lets check:
Gusari is a serbian word which mean pirate, robber.
Wealthy commoners and even some lesser nobles who probably gained their wealth from raiding against
the Ottomans. Armed with a heavy lance and shield, and have little armor. They were not integrated part
of serbian army but were band of brigands and robbers who raided the Ottomans.


Huszar (Hussars) which is a hungarian word, come from "husz" mean twenty. There are some theories why they was called
as huszar(hussar) btw i dont see any reason why we should find any common between this words gusars and hussars:
1. the smallest unit of hussars had 20 people
2. Sigismund created a law in diet of 1397: every nobles liable give one horse archer after
twenty serfs to hungarian army (those horce archers was called as huszar (hussar) cause they were 20th from serfs )


This law is very interesting! As you can see in hungary raid on horse and used bow on horse was part of life of hungarian people.
In europe mostly the nobles had saddle-horses also in serbia. But in hungary everybody had horses! For example one of the first law created by St. Stephen was: "1 church for every 10 villages and 4 horses for every 2 houses". I can say you there is no any other country in Europe at this time which has so much horses like hungarians. The crusaders who moved through hungary in 1096 wrote: "in this country are countlessly many horses". There was also another habit in hungarians, when someone die in a hungarian family, the members of this hungarian family dont use anymore the horses of this dead man. The horses of this dead man was donated to church. We have more hundred donated letters where horses of a dead man were donated to church.
A tax list of Szentgyörgy village from 1440 show that in this time this village has: 20 cows, 34 ox and 145 horses!!!

Bertrándon de la Brocquiére wrote in 1433 when he was his travel from Damascus to Burgundia: in Szeged there were around 3-4000 horses on the market, the price of horses is very cheap.

Weapons of gusars was heavy lance and shield! Weapons of hussars was: bow, sabre, fokos (hand axe), and koplya (light lance).
Their main weapon was "bow" to 16th century but it was used also in 17th century yet! Serbian gusars had no bow!
If we compara the weapons of ancient hungarians from 9-10th cenutry, they had: bow, sabre and fokos. Their main weapon was bow! As u can see its same! And totaly different from serbian gusars!

Hussars were integrated part of hungarian army, their main jobs were: scout and destroy the supply line of enemy army. In battle, they were used as horse archers. Just remember the serbian gusars who was lesser nobles were robbers who raided the Ottomans!

So, gusars and hussars were totaly different type of light cavalries. For me the theory that serbs teached hungarians
about "use horses, or tactic of light cavalries" its realy funny! And also for me unacceptable that hungarian military cavalries was named from robbers by the hungarian king!

Since the modern day Hungarians are mainly the descendants of the locals found in the Carpathian basin
by the Magyar conquerors the other issue in your post
is you claim the Modern Hungarians to be more related to the Serbs than to their "arch-rivals" the Romanians. Well,
"an image tells more than 1000 words" (say the Chinese). How about two images, with the genetic structure of the Romanians,
Hungarians and Serbs side by side?

jesus... u begin again your stupidity? this one is a thread about hussars!
man, learn again your source:
"Only 2 of 27 ancient Hungarian samples are unambiguously Asian: the rest belong to one of the western Eurasian haplogroups, but some Asian affinities, and the genetic effect of populations who came into contact with ancient Hungarians during their migrations are seen."

which mean hungarians were already mixed people when they arrived to charpatian basin!
Btw have u ever hear about mother tongue? U wanna say me that hungarian language survived but hungarians were assimilated?
LOOOL! learn history!

And your pictures are realy good we can see that romanians are the most mixed people in europe. Which clearly show us that they got mixed with many people on their way from south balkans to wallachia...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...80&query_hl=12
Serum samples from 170 unrelated individuals from the Suceava District of Roumania and from 199 unrelated individuals from Bucharest, Roumania were tested fro Gm(1,2,3,5,6,13,14,17,21) and Km(1)[Inv(1)]. Selected samples were also tested for Gm(15) and Gm(16). The frequencies of the three common Caucasoid haplotypes, Gm3,5,13,14, Gm1,17,21, and Gm1,2,17,21 in these two populations were found to be similar to those in neighboring Slavic states and Hungary. Racial admixture was evidenced by the presence of the Gm1,13,15,16,17 and Gm1,3,5,13,14 haplotypes, which are primarily Mongoloid, and the Gm1,5,13,14,17 haplotype which is primarily Negroid. Comparisons of these data with those from earlier studies of populations from Central Europe indicate that the frequency of the Gm3,5,13,14 haplotype within this region is high and essentially uniform. Published data for several blood group systems also indicate essentially uniform distributions of frequencies in this region. It is suggested that this region may be the center of a cline that radiates from it.


Since the modern day Rumenians are mainly descendant of the local founds as hungarians, cumans, bolgars, pechenegs, mongols and slavs proved by your pictures its clear that Rumenians are the most mixed people of europe. Its also proved by your language which has around 46% slav, 30% latin, 6% hungarian origin and no any of dacians. This show us that vlachs were slavers of romans through many hundred years in south balkan before they arrived to wallachia. This also proved by you cause u have a big minority feeling (roman slavers, vlach without state etc etc...) and you always try to insult hungarians with this dna research (which clearly show that hungarians were already mixed when they arrived) but actualy its realy bad for rumenians!!!

back to thread:
Probably the last hungarian hussars attack happened in II ww.
This come from a german eyewitness, i hope someone will translate to english...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A magyar lovasság utoljára a második világháborúban Nyikolajev városánál bocsátkozott harcba 1941. augusztusában. A huszárok rohamára egy német szemtanú így emlékezett vissza: „…Ismét kemény harcban álltunk a kétségbeesetten védekező ellenséggel, aki egy magas vasúti töltés mellett ásta be magát. Már négyszer rohamoztunk, s mind a négyszer visszavertek bennünket. A zászlóaljparancsnok káromkodott, a századparancsnokok azonban tehetetlenek voltak. Ekkor a tüzérségi támogatás helyett, amit számtalanszor kértünk, egy magyar huszárezred jelent meg a színen. Nevettünk. Mi az ördögöt akarnak ezek itt a kecses, elegáns lovaikkal? Egyszerre megdermettünk: ezek a magyarok megbolondultak! Lovasszázad, lovasszázad után közeledett. Parancsszó harsant. A bronzbarnára sült, karcsú lovasok szinte odanőttek a nyereghez. Fénylő aranyparolis ezredesük kirántotta kardját. Négy-öt könnyű páncélkocsi vágódott ki a szárnyakra, az ezred pedig a délutáni napban villogó kardokkal végigvágtázott a széles síkságon. (…) Eldördültek az első lövések, aztán mind ritkábbak lettek. Kimeredő szemmel, hitetlenkedve néztük, ahogy a szovjet ezred, amely eddig elkeseredett elszántsággal verte vissza támadásainkat, most megfordul, és pánikszerűen otthagyja állásait. A diadalmas magyarok pedig maguk előtt űzték az oroszt, és csillogó szablyájukkal aprították őket. (…) Most az egyszer az ősi fegyver győzedelmeskedett a modern felszerelésen…”

[Baron Vlad Felix]

Snipa please read againe:
Serbian light cavalries period of IX to XII century represented soldiers shielded light leather or armored, and often armored by metal flake.[/During the period of XII-XV century in Serbia have started to introduce modern shields with the West.So it can be seen that instead of the old normans helmet to use to enter bascineti and crusaders helmeted, leather armor and the scale replaces fuller shields.The Serbian army was equipped by the "Vlastela" wore new armor mostly imported from Venice.So that the equipment Srbian knights found a lot saleta, bascineta, barbuta ...
It is true that a lot of customs taken from Byzantium,but later most of them equipped is from the west.
from Stefan Nemanjić period Light cavalry comprised the front, and heavy(later) the last lines of formation like in Velbuzda,Maricka battle...in Battle of Kosovo ,Light cavalry comprised mostly of sebian Vuk Branković army!...They use spears,swords, javelins in combat









Hussar origins we find in bands of Serbian warriors crossing into southern Hungary after the Ottoman invasion on Serbia in late 14th and 15th centuries. "The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century. In the 16th century, painted wings or winged claws began to appear on cavalry shields. Wings were originally attached to the saddle and later to the back. In 1645, Col. Szczodrowski was said to have used ostrich wings. In 1500, the Polish Treasury books make reference to hussars. Early on, they were foreign mercenaries, and were called Racowie from 'Rascia' a word meaning 'of Serbia'. They came from the Serbian state of Ras."

Researched and Written by Margaret Odrowaz-Sypniewska, B.F.A. SOURCES: Brzezinski, Richard. Polish Armies 1569-1600. (volume 1) #184 in the Osprey Men-at-Arms Series. London: Osprey Publishing, 6, 16. Brzezinski, Richard. Polish Winged Hussar 1576-1775. Warrior Series. Oxford: Osprey Publishing Ltd., 2006. Hollins, David. Hungarian Hussars 1756-1815. Osprey Warrior Series. Oxford: Osprey Publishing, Ltd., 2003. Klucina, Petr. (Illustrations by Pavol Pevny) Armor: From Ancient To Modern Times. Reprinted by New York: Barnes & Noble Books, 1992, (by permission of Slovart Publishing Ltd, Batislava). Ostrowski, Jan K., et al. Art in Poland: Land of the Winged Horsemen 1572-1764. Baltimore: Art Services International, 1999. Wasilkowska, Anna. The Winged Horsemen. Warsaw: Wydawnictwo Interpress, 1998. Zamoyski, Adam. The Polish Way. New York: Hippocrene Books, 1996.

12. and 13 century in Omiš ruled Kačići princes(Knezovi), who were led by the "Gusari"(pirates) of Omiš.
Since from then hear the name of "Gusari"....After the word "Gusar"went to the "Husar" in the XIV century!

Since the modern day Rumenians are mainly descendant of the local founds as hungarians, cumans, bolgars, pechenegs, mongols and slavs proved by your pictures its clear that Rumenians are the most mixed people of europe. Its also proved by your language which has around 46% slav, 30% latin, 6% hungarian origin and no any of dacians. This show us that vlachs were slavers of romans through many hundred years in south balkan before they arrived to wallachia. This also proved by you cause u have a big minority feeling (roman slavers, vlach without state etc etc...) and you always try to insult hungarians with this dna research (which clearly show that hungarians were already mixed when they arrived) but actualy its realy bad for rumenians!!!

[Romano-Dacis]

For the sake of decency, I'll put my spat with snipa in spoilers and try to keep this thread on the rails...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i suggest you to show me your evidence that huszar(hussar) was used in serbia before 1403! why do you belive its hurt me
if hussars come from serbia? no, just because u had gusars which is originaly a serbian type of cavalries its not mean they
were the base of hungarian hussars... or should we continue? gusasr come from byzantine corsairs? byzantine corsairs come
from seldjuk "xy"? etc etc?
its a funy theory! every nation create their own type of cavalries!

Yet you have literally no evidence that Hussars were a continuation of Hungarian military tradition, and in fact the lexical evidence points to the contrary.

In 14th century there were many hungarian mercenary companies who was named as corsairs by italians... This mercenary companies
had mostly light cavalries.

So let me get this straight: Gusar != Hussar because Gusar means "raider" but when Italians call Hungarian light cavalry "corsairs" (pirates) it suddenly proves Hungarians have hussars in the past... Do you understand the meaning of being consistent?

They were not integrated part of serbian army but were band of brigands and robbers who raided the Ottomans.

Except there are many military terms which come from people who did not formally organize themselves in such military units. The haiduc has already been mentioned (wow, another brigand turned regular soldier) but then there are cossacks which were in no way formal military units in the Zaporochyan Sich but were formally organized in military units in The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia. Does this mean the concept of Cossacks comes from Poland? No.

Huszar (Hussars) which is a hungarian word, come from "husz" mean twenty. There are some theories why they was called
as huszar(hussar) btw i dont see any reason why we should find any common between this words gusars and hussars:
1. the smallest unit of hussars had 20 people
2. Sigismund created a law in diet of 1397: every nobles liable give one horse archer after
twenty serfs to hungarian army (those horce archers was called as huszar (hussar) cause they were 20th from serfs )

So first hussar comes from them being "worth 20" enemies, then it is because "their units were made of 20 men", and now it is because "they were recruited from 1 in 20 serfs" (which btw is false, not all horse archers are hussars). As you can see, the Hungarian etymology of the word is so undecided that it seems like a vain nationalist reconstruction. "Here's a word, let's try to find some Hungarian base words that are similar."

And this is ignoring the fact the Russians called Hungarian hussars "gussars", which completely demolishes your statement of "gussar != hussar." How do I put it, even Hungarian sources state:
http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/...hou20.htm#11.2

The word first appeared in Hungarian documents in 1378. Originally a slavic word, it was accepted in the Hungarian language and spelled huszar, meaning light-cavalry soldier. Lorand Benko (ed.), A Magyar nyelv tortetneti-etimologiai szotara. "Historical-etymological Dictionary of the Hungarian Language." (Budapest: Akademiai Kiado, 1970), 3 vols., Vol. 11, p. 174, columns 1-2. Western Europe, Great Britain and Russia learned about the word from refugees of the defeated Rakoczi freedom-fight. Hungarian folklore gave a new interpretation concerning the origin of the word: Husz=twenty, ar=price. Thus, huszar meant a light cavalry Hungarian soldier who was worth the price of twenty other soldiers.

Sorry snipa, but I don't accept the upselling of folklore for fact.

For example one of the first law created by St. Stephen was: "1 church for every 10 villages and 4 horses for every 2 houses". I can say you there is no any other country in Europe at this time which has so much horses like hungarians.

It was illegal for anyone to not know how to ride or shoot a bow in Stephen the Great's time (15th century) so you have simply made an assumption that is false. Many cultures even within Europe had strong traditions of light cavalry.

Your garbage about genetics is really funny... like a tragic comedy to the eyes of someone studying biochemistry... it's kind of like your notion that Haplogroup J2 in Romanians (a haplogroup that arrived in Europe through the Balkans some 10,000 years ago) is evidence Romanians migrated into Transylvania in the 13th century. But by all means, continue. I could use a good laugh!

BTW, you still never provided your 1403 document. I can only assume (like with every other primary source you never provide) that you have grossly manipulated it and in fact it disproves your theory.

So when did the hussar actually become a successful military concept and to what extent can we say hussars in 1750 were similar to hussars 200 years earlier? To me it seems like the latter were designed as lancer cavalry (they were adopted in this style by Poland) intended to give the critical strike while the former were light cavalry intended to harass the enemy and begin the engagement.

Was the rise of the hussars as a military unit in any way linked to the rise of Corvinus's Black Army? What's interesting to note is that hussars quite often outnumbered heavy cavalry, like in 1518 the Hungarian border guards were coposed of about 2,100 heavy cavalry, 2,800 hussars, and a smaller number of infantry. This may have been because hussars were fast enough to intercept Turkish raiders.

[HorseArcher]

It's time to talk about the hussars themselves not their name.

Some battles in which hungarian hussars participated:

Battle of Kolin: 1757
10 regiments on austrian side
2 regiments on prussian

Count Miklós Eszterházy was awarded with Maria Theresia order for bravery and various officers with other awards. A hussar carried the news of victory to Vienna.

1758 Battle of Zorndorf
15 squadron hussar led by Pál Werner and Tivadar János Rüsch. While Rüsch was punished because his unruly men foraged in the battle and broke the discipline, Werner was awarded with pour la Merite by Frederick II.

1760 Torgau
Several regiments (about 10) on austrian and several on prussian side.
The oberster of Karl Herzog Regiment, József Orosz lost his horse, grabbed the austrian flag on foot and ordered advance, then his troath was pierced with a bayonett, he got caught, but later recovered and was ransomed.

Hungarian hussars fought at Rocroux, Fontenoy Dettingen, Leuthen, Poltava (swedish side) and in countless other battles. Also they fought in the american civil war (for the Union) and in the War of Independence.

Good try Odovacar, trying to derail the thread. This whole thread is about the gussars and the origin of the word and the Serbian heavy cavalry, the genetics of Hungarians and surrounding nations for now on, if you want to open another thread discussing the Hungarian Huszar, please go ahead, although I have little faith of having not to turn into the same as this one.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

sarcasm added

[Carpathian Wolf]

Since the modern day Rumenians are mainly descendant of the local founds as hungarians, cumans, bolgars, pechenegs, mongols and slavs proved by your pictures its clear that Rumenians are the most mixed people of europe. Its also proved by your language which has around 46% slav, 30% latin, 6% hungarian origin and no any of dacians. This show us that vlachs were slavers of romans through many hundred years in south balkan before they arrived to wallachia. This also proved by you cause u have a big minority feeling (roman slavers, vlach without state etc etc...) and you always try to insult hungarians with this dna research (which clearly show that hungarians were already mixed when they arrived) but actualy its realy bad for rumenians!!!

lol "vlachs were slaves of romans south of wallachia! rabble rabble rabble, magyar garda rubbish blah blah blah"

Where are your sources for this bs? 30 percent latin? How about 90 percent and Romanian actually kept the classical latin grammar unlike spanish, italian or french. Please don't try to derail the thread into your idiotic unsourced paragraphs of non sense.

[Bokks]

Keep it on-topic and impersonal.

This has been driving all of us crazy, instances of any breach will earn infractions.

Of course, please keep up constructive posts, not everyone here is guilty.

[snipa]

Snipa please read againe:
Serbian light cavalries period of IX to XII century represented soldiers shielded light leather or armored, and often armored by metal flake.

Vlad i did, this information is very good, and? Btw any evidence about serb light cavalries from 9th c ? Or this light
cavalries was called as hussars?

But i dont care about your evidence, cause Magyars had very good maybe the best light cavalries from 9th century proved by written mentions.
This hungarian light cavalries army defeated many west and east europeans armies with their tactics which was same to tactics of hussars in 15th century.
This one also a point why i say gusari (band of robbers) != hussars (magyar light cavalries).

During the period of XII-XV century in Serbia have started to introduce modern shields with the West.So it can be seen that instead
of the old normans helmet to use to enter bascineti and crusaders helmeted, leather armor and the scale replaces fuller shields.
The Serbian army was equipped by the "Vlastela" wore new armor mostly imported from Venice.So that the equipment Srbian knights found a lot saleta, bascineta, barbuta ...
It is true that a lot of customs taken from Byzantium,but later most of them equipped is from the west.

its again a pretty good information about serbian knights, and? are they was gusari? no...
are they was hussars? no...

from Stefan Nemanjić period Light cavalry comprised the front, and heavy(later) the last lines of formation
like in Velbuzda,Maricka battle...in Battle of Kosovo ,Light cavalry comprised mostly of sebian Vuk Branković army!...
They use spears,swords, javelins in combat

and?
Hungarian hussars used bows, sabre, fokos (little axe) and koplya (light lance) all of them are tradicional hungarian weapons from 9th c.
as u can see hussars had different weapons like weapons of Vuk Branković's light cavalries! Btw any evidence that those light cavalries was
called as gusari?
and do not forget this weapons was used from 9th century by hungarian light cavalries!!!
This also a point why i say gusari != hussars .

So your point is what?
whats the common with gusari and hussars? cause they were light cavalries? or what?

You posted a source which show us frescoes of 14th c where serbian soldiers used: sword, mace and composite bow.
Thats fine. And?

Hungarian light cavalries used same weapons from 9th century included composite bow. So? your point is what?
Im sure hungarian used composite bow before serbians! Maybe this was the cause why serbians adopted this weapon from
hungarians. Or have u got any evidence that serbians used composite bow before 9th century?
Its obvious that magyars used...

i think its not an overdrawn guess when i say maybe magyars had the best horse archers from 9th c to 15th century in this area included (pechenegs, cumans, jasz).

Hussar origins we find in bands of Serbian warriors crossing into southern Hungary after the Ottoman invasion on Serbia
in late 14th and 15th centuries. "The hussar concept began in Serbia, near the end of the 14th century.

Actualy whats hussars origin? Horse archer? Hungarians had horse archers from 9th c proved by written mentions.
Tactics of light cavalries? Man, hungarians raided whole Europe with their light cavalries army and defeated almost every enemy armies, later they assimilated the pechenegs and cumans too who were very good horse archers.
So im sure hungarians had better knowledge about tactics of light cavalries like serbs. This is not an offense, its a fact.
I do not deny that serbs had very strong mounted knigths and they used light cavalries.


you said:
"bands of Serbian warriors crossing into southern Hungary after the Ottoman invasion on Serbia
in late 14th and 15th centuries"

Vlad check again the history, Hungarians also fought against Ottomans before they conquered serbia.
Just check 1375. In 1375 Sigismund had a victorious campaing against ottomans. In this campaing Sigismund fought
against ottomans+vlach alliance and he won.

12. and 13 century in Omiš ruled Kačići princes(Knezovi), who were led by the "Gusari"(pirates) of Omiš.
Since from then hear the name of "Gusari"....After the word "Gusar"went to the "Husar" in the XIV century!

So u wanna say me that hungarian hear the name of gusar after they "magyarized" and became hussar? realy? its realy funny... why and when we change this name to hussars from gusari?

Btw im interested about when was the first written mention about gusari in serbia?

Lets check the first written mentions about "hussars". What a surprise all of them are hungarian mentions from hungarian royal documents:
1403 -> mention about a hungarian hussar captain
around 1410 no correct date -> mention about a soldier his name was "Huszár Imre" (Imre Hussar).
1449 -> mention about a hungarian hussar
1481 -> king Matyas wrote a letter where he said: "our light cavalries what we called as hussars (hussarones)"

So u want to say me that hungarians got your "gusari" word (which mean pirate/robber and hungarians didnt know whats mean even though there were many south slav soldiers in hungarian army and they named their elite light cavalries from robbers?) after 1389 when serbian gusaris
escape to Hungary. And Hungarians misunderstanding this word so they change to hussars and immediatly used this word as family name.

If hungarian used hussar as family name around 1410 its mean they used this word for a long time. It was a family name so it was hungarian word which has hungarian meaning. Im sure hungarians already used hussars in 14th century just we didnt find any evidence yet. Maybe we will ;-)

So according to this informations my oppinion gusari != hussars.
Gusari who was light cavalries in Balkan created by lesser nobles who raided ottomans.
Hussars who was hungarian military light cavalries who used the tactics and weapons of tradicional hungarian light cavalries.

lol "vlachs were slaves of romans south of wallachia! rabble rabble rabble, magyar garda rubbish blah blah blah"

yes they were
rabble rabble rabble, Noua Drepta (http://www.nouadreapta.org/) blah blah blah

[Baron Vlad Felix]

OHHHHH snipa!

The hussars of medieval Hungary

A type of irregular light horsemen was already well established by the 15th century in medieval Hungary. The word hussar (IPA: /həˈzɑːr, həˈsɑːr/, or /hʊ-/) stems from the Hungarian huszár. This word in turn originates from the Serbian husar or gusar, meaning pirate, derived from the Medieval Latin cursarius (cf. the English word corsair)

ok here in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussars

[Carpathian Wolf]

Eh Snipa....

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hussars

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hussar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussars...dieval_Hungary

And Romano Dacis provided Hungarian sources that say the same. Husar comes from Gusar. Why else would the Russians take the Husar and they themselves translate it to Gusar.

Gusar = Slavic
Husar = Magyarized

No one is saying Serbs taught the Hungarians to use light cavalry. You're changing the topic.

yes they were
rabble rabble rabble, Noua Drepta (http://www.nouadreapta.org/) blah blah blah

Yea except you I don't embrace the nationalists in my country. Vadim Tudor is an idiot.

So what is your proof that vlachs were slaves of Romans. Vlach itself as a term refers to Romans/Latin speakers. So you are contradicting yourself.

[Romano-Dacis]

Not to derail, but comparing Magyar Garda to Noua Dreapta is absolutely idiotic. Noua Dreapta is a far-right neo-nazi group which is not involved in politics while Magyar Garda is an ultra-nationalist and racist group founded by a Hungarian political party (jobbik).

BTW CW, Vadim Tudor and PRM are not involved in Noua Dreapta and openly denounce it as stupid.

[mircea]

But i dont care about your evidence, cause Magyars had very good maybe the best light cavalries from 9th century proved by written mentions.
This hungarian light cavalries army defeated many west and east europeans armies with their tactics which was same to tactics of hussars in 15th century.
This one also a point why i say gusari (band of robbers) != hussars (magyar light cavalries).

A Byzantine chronicle from 1332 stated that Romanians are “most often mounted archers”. Paulo Giovio, Anton Verancsics, Italian travelers from XVI century both talked about the abundance of cavalry in the Romanian armies, with the latter even asserting (probably exaggerating) that “they mostly fight mounted, using footmen only to harass the enemy in mountains areas”.
So we see that the light cavalry horse archers is hardly something uniquily hungarian.

So your point is what?
whats the common with gusari and hussars? cause they were light cavalries? or what?

So your point is what?
whats the common with gusari and hussars? cause they were light cavalries? or what?
Hungarian light cavalries used same weapons from 9th century included composite bow. So? your point is what?
Im sure hungarian used composite bow before serbians! Maybe this was the cause why serbians adopted this weapon from
hungarians. Or have u got any evidence that serbians used composite bow before 9th century?
Its obvious that magyars used...

By the same (i)logic thinking we could conclude that the Polish husaria and the later hussars were in fact not hungarians. Thier weaponry substantially different from the weapons used by the medieval hussars.

i think its not an overdrawn guess when i say maybe magyars had the best horse archers from 9th c to 15th century in this area included (pechenegs, cumans, jasz).

Yes, it is a overestimate. Romanians used horse archer till 17th century, and by the final outcome, it seems that we did it better than you

Actualy whats hussars origin? Horse archer? Hungarians had horse archers from 9th c proved by written mentions.
Tactics of light cavalries? Man, hungarians raided whole Europe with their light cavalries army and defeated almost every enemy armies, later they assimilated the pechenegs and cumans too who were very good horse archers.
So im sure hungarians had better knowledge about tactics of light cavalries like serbs. This is not an offense, its a fact.
I do not deny that serbs had very strong mounted knigths and they used light cavalries.

So you think that before Magyar invasions no European has ever seen a horse archer? Well think again. The autochtonus and the people of the Balkans knew about horse archers long before the magyar invasion, some of these people since the time of the schytians.

Vlad check again the history, Hungarians also fought against Ottomans before they conquered serbia.
Just check 1375. In 1375 Sigismund had a victorious campaing against ottomans. In this campaing Sigismund fought
against ottomans+vlach alliance and he won.

any proof, or just the usual lies. The only reference of this is a line in a article in AllEmpires, which offers no further details upon a event that is quite hard to believe judging by the fact that the ruler of Wallachia fought against Turks in 1371 at Maritsa River Battle) By the way the article is also very interesting from another poin of view:

Hungarian military was also reformed. To compensate for the lack of light cavarly, a law ordered every noblemen to raise one horse archer after 20 (later 33) mansions of serfs. This law assured a large, but low quality force. Unfortunately, Hungary lacked a quality light cavalry when it was most needed. He also temporarily (till the end of the Ottoman threat) suspended the law regulating the maximum length of the noblemen's military service.

So according to this informations my oppinion gusari != hussars.
Gusari who was light cavalries in Balkan created by lesser nobles who raided ottomans.
Hussars who was hungarian military light cavalries who used the tactics and weapons of tradicional hungarian light cavalries. Hussars were integrated part of hungarian army, their main jobs were: scout and destroy the supply line of enemy army.

Raiding is not implying scouting and destroying the supply line of enemy army??! So, tactically, the two units were used in the same manner.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Not to derail, but comparing Magyar Garda to Noua Dreapta is absolutely idiotic. Noua Dreapta is a far-right neo-nazi group which is not involved in politics while Magyar Garda is an ultra-nationalist and racist group founded by a Hungarian political party (jobbik).

BTW CW, Vadim Tudor and PRM are not involved in Noua Dreapta and openly denounce it as stupid.

Oh gee I must be a bad member then. I don't even remember which crazy right wing political party I supposedly belong to.

[Romano-Dacis]

I'm just wondering: where is the evidence that the hussars used the old Magyar axes (forget the name) in the 15th century? Is it archaeological, written, or illuminated?

[snipa]

OHHHHH snipa!

The hussars of medieval Hungary

A type of irregular light horsemen was already well established by the 15th century in medieval Hungary. The word hussar (IPA: /həˈzɑːr, həˈsɑːr/, or /hʊ-/) stems from the Hungarian huszár. This word in turn originates from the Serbian husar or gusar, meaning pirate, derived from the Medieval Latin cursarius (cf. the English word corsair)

ok here in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussars

Vlad, you post here again the same information.
But can u explain me how is it possible that hungarians used "hussars" as family name around 1410 proved by written mention? Which mean if this person was around 30 years old he used this name from around 1380. And who knows? Maybe his father name was also hussar.
This is also a point why i said hussars was used by hungarians in 14th c. Before serbian gusari escaped to hungary.

And u didnt explain me when and why gusari change to hussar...


And do not forget sebians also named this cavalries as husars instead of gusari. As u can see bosnians, croatians, serbs also used the


hungarian name instead of gusari.

• Bosnian: husar
• Catalan: hússar
• Croatian: husar
• Dutch: huzaar
• Finnish: husaari
• French: hussard
• German: Husar
• Greek: ουσάρος (usáros)
• Italian: ussaro
  
  • Polish: husaria
  • Portuguese: hussardo
  • Russian: гусар (gusár)
  • Serbian: Cyrillic: хусар Roman: husar
  • Slovak: husár
  • Spanish: húsar
  • Swedish: husar
  • Welsh: hwsar
    
    • Polish: husaria
    • Portuguese: hussardo
    • Russian: гусар (gusár)
    • Serbian: Cyrillic: хусар Roman: husar
    • Slovak: husár
    • Spanish: húsar
    • Swedish: husar
    • Welsh: hwsâr

Btw i understand why Vlad here and we have a debate over origin of hussar cause he lives in serbia.
But i dont understand whats the target of this rumenians... lol

[Baron Vlad Felix]

Btw i understand why Vlad here and we have a debate over origin of hussar cause he lives in serbia.
But i dont understand whats the target of this rumenians... lol

Because facts, word is originates from the Serbian husar or gusar
Not becouse I am Romanian who lives in Serbia!

[snipa]

Because facts, word is originates from the Serbian husar or gusar
Not becouse I am Romanian who lives in Serbia!

because facts?
actualy which fact prove that gusari word was the origi of hungarian huszár?

A Byzantine chronicle from 1332 stated that Romanians are “most often mounted archers”. Paulo Giovio, Anton Verancsics, Italian travelers from XVI century both talked about the abundance of cavalry in the Romanian armies, with the latter even asserting (probably exaggerating) that “they mostly fight mounted, using footmen only to harass the enemy in mountains areas”.
So we see that the light cavalry horse archers is hardly something uniquily hungarian.

Thats fine u had horse archer in 14th century... and?
Who said that only hungarians used horse archers? I said probably hungarians had one of the best horse archers in this area to 15th century.
You should check other byzantine chronicles where you can read about hungarian horse archers from 9-10th century... You know this is the time when hungarian army were only horse archers and nothing else!
Maybe u hear something about a west european prayer: "pls god save us from hungarian arrows"

By the same (i)logic thinking we could conclude that the Polish husaria and the later hussars were in fact not hungarians. Thier weaponry substantially different from the weapons used by the medieval hussars.

The different between this 2 situation that poland hired hungarian hussars after they created their own winged hussars which was heavy cavalries instead of hungarian light cavalries.

Yes, it is a overestimate. Romanians used horse archer till 17th century, and by the final outcome, it seems that we did it better than you

no, im sure its absolutly not an overestimate!

So you think that before Magyar invasions no European has ever seen a horse archer? Well think again. The autochtonus and the people of the Balkans knew about horse archers long before the magyar invasion, some of these people since the time of the schytians.

can u show me where i said that europeans didnt knows any about horse archers before hungarians? Actualy you guys want to say that hungarians light cavalries got their tactics from serbian gusari...
As u can read my posts im sure hungarians had better experience about tactics of light cavalries in this are like any other except tatars in 13th c. !

Btw, im realy happy that u mentioned the scythians. Im sure we can agree that their main weapon was bow (like hungarians and hussars) and they had another weapon, the fokos (axe):
http://books.google.hu/books?id=ozA8...esult#PPA36,M1

here is a picture from a hungarian horse archer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fokoslovas.jpg

here u can see some pictures from the tradicional hungarian fokos, pls choes option: Fokosok, Balták:
http://www.poccke.freeweb.hu/

This weapon was maybe the favorite weapon for hungarians also for hungarian hussars.

any proof, or just the usual lies. The only reference of this is a line in a article in AllEmpires, which offers no further details upon a event that is quite hard to believe judging by the fact that the ruler of Wallachia fought against Turks in 1371 at Maritsa River Battle) By the way the article is also very interesting from another poin of view:

lol, usual lies?
pls come back when u have enough informations about the victorious campaing of Sigismund against ottomans&vlach in 1375...

Raiding is not implying scouting and destroying the supply line of enemy army??! So, tactically, the two units were used in the same manner.

not realy, gusari raided the ottomans to get loots and not cause they want to destroy their supply! they were not integrated part of serbian army!
Hungarian hussars were integrated part of the army, and yes one of their main jobs was destroy the supply line of the enemy army.
Its absolutly different!

[Scotty89]

You have to attack every Hungarian thing with your myths?

[Carpathian Wolf]

Snipa vs dictionary

Who will win?

[wearycelt]

Can I ask? Where does all of the inter-Balkan hate come from? My understanding of the regions' history was that it has been engulfed in war for since Alexander due to its strategic position. Peace has only really been prevalent breifly, and often, but not always, as a result of foreign occupation. (Romans, Byz, Austria, Turkey, Soviet) And that the peoples across the Carpatian Basin, from the Adriatic to the Black, from Greece to Moldavia have been the unfortunate hosts of the conflict. So why, is there such animosity between serbs and romanians and hungarians?

In deference to the fine Moderators of this site, if you can't answer in a civil insult free fashion, (as a Virginian of Irish descent, I understand that this can be a problem) PM me and don't post the hate.

Also, forgive me, but I thought it best to ask those engaged in the name calling, instead of starting a thread.