Feedback DLV 6.1

[repman]

Since i never got much feedback regarding the openbetas, so i'm asking now for feedback regarding 6.1 focused on the campaign map:
- What scripts do you have activated and which one not (and why): point system, trait based cavalry recruiting, investments\loan system,....
- General gameplay later in the game: money balance, AI troops (number and quality), economic events,
- any other gameplay ideas ? (based on the existing features of DLV

Don't ask for: new factions, regions, units...

Necessary infos:
- which camapign, difficulty, faction, scripts active,....

I have many more ideas but if here is no feedback than future DLV is just dead.

thanks

repman

[Agis Tournas]

I have an idea [I will try to make a script about that]:
What would you say if there was a way to kill your disobedient/bad generals with a script like the dungeon one?
:hmmm:

[Brips]

I never had this with DLV: 75000 Florins in 1205!! Holy Flanders!! May be too easy for money now, I don't know.
And you????

[Taiji]

The only script I do not use is the generals required to build cavalry units which seems to have been combined with generals required to build buildings, I'd prefer to have the building restriction but not the training restrictions.

The point system is excellent, it really adds a lot of incentive for me to be more aggressive militarily, to complete missions, to go on crusades, etc. I'm being totally serious when I says that it's one of the best features I've ever seen in a M2TW mod.

Perhaps we can have the point systems broken down and remodelled so that we wind up with more to do. Government could be broken down into religion/entertainment, trade/manufacturing, administration/infrastructure. Military could be broken down into something simple like technology and valor. Money could be spent to improve technology, military contact with new factions could help, etc.

Basically I think the point system is awesome and should be built upon or expanded.

The investment/loan system is very cool, really nice detail you've added there.

The reason I don't like restricted cavalry recruitment is that for some factions cavalry is more important than others, the effect changes depending on the faction chosen. Also the recruitment pool does not recharge if they are not there so they have to be there for a time before you can create any cav. I liked many features of BGRIV but restricting recruitment of better troops to the war council seemed an unecessary complication. I appreciate the detail but I feel it detracts from gameplay making large empire management more of a chore. His work with nobles having personal wealth and estates which the king could tax in different ways I found very interesting.

I've not really had much chance to get into the late game so I can't really comment on it, so busy doing other things. I've noticed that in the early game things are easier since low quality units cost at least half their previous cost and they're all you can build. AI armies are bigger and the army limit is more of a problem for the player - which is a good thing since I never used to have to deal with that at all before the unit cost change. Still I find the early game financially challenging even after taking a few settlements though perhaps the maximum income of some of the top earning cities should be reduced. Take a couple of these cities and money just comes way too easy. They give a nice potential to have a small but powerful faction but they can create a snowball effect when growing an empire, money just goes through the roof. Maybe the inflation script you had previously or something like that could be useful.

It would be nice if dark age events were unpredictable, being able to expect and plan for a dark age takes the edge off it too much I think. In my last campaign that actually got as far as the first dark age I lost my entire family of 10+ members (I refused to plan for it lol). I think family members should maybe have better plague resistance.

I like that the armies in the little forts are powerful but they are too anachronistic, it takes away the coolness of developing plate armor if you saw it in the first 5 turns already. Same goes for the upgraded dismounted feudal knights with partial plate armor from the start which many AI factions seem to have, maybe double the amount of these units but take away their armor upgrade.

There is some inconsistancy with horde armies, some are incredibly powerful (like milan) and some are very weak (like lithuania).

This is stuff that you may have noticed me trying to address with the old weapon upgrade removal thing and now Hardcore:
Having great mercs appear so early really reduces the excitement about getting your own cool troops later on. Gunpowder units all appearing at once kinda does the same, you'll never make an arquebusier if musketeers are around. The recent testing done with setting walls up to produce units for the AI has yielded great results, AI army composition seems to make much more sense in relation to the recruit priority values in the EDU now that all units are available. The AI doesn't have any more troops than previously, money seems to solve that issue, it just has just a better mix.

[Kjertesvein]

Update March 08, 2009

Necessary infos:
- which camapign, difficulty, faction, scripts active,....

Historical, seljuc turcs&Byzantine. Vh Vh, Total war, All script on

- What scripts do you have activated and which one not (and why): point system, trait based cavalry recruiting, investments\loan system,....

• I got all scripts on. To make it more difficult. I like the option of fearing for my kingdome & all that I have buildt up.

- General gameplay later in the game: money balance, AI troops (number and quality), economic events,

• I am currently playing the Turcs/byz. I will let you know soon how it goes in this very post.
• As I play as Historical Byzantine(Turn 40) Total war A.I. No enemy has attacked me. Only alot of fleets have blokaded my ports, but not a single army. They recruite alot, but only 5 factions has captured 1 region each. Other faction don't do sh-it.

- any other gameplay ideas ? (based on the existing features of DLV

• You should check out Taiji's HARDCORE file. It lets the AI recruite from the walls. That means much better armys, designed on the wall type. Not the full town militia armys in gunpowder age anymore. *Maybe bring this as a pop-up-scrip the first turn.:hmmm:
• It would be cool to get a (civil war)warning that the Nobels don't like your loosing ground. That you should expand to sertin regions or forts inside your orginal borders. Maybe adding Chivalry/Nobles points. A branch with in gov. points
• It would be cool to have more scripts/events kicking in mid/late -era. Or upgrading past scripts, to make them adapt to later era cost. As time goes, money get worth less, you need more to sustain.
• I see the loan system as an improving potencial. Right now, your money goes up and down 20-30 000 from turn to turn. So if you have negative 20k, it help little adding 10k à turn. Raising the bar to 25 000 might help...hmm...
• Points related with foreign affairs. If there could be events, for the player to know why the A.I suddenly mass attacks the player(if there is a reason or not).

Taiji already points out much constructive points(I still like the reinforcement as it is.)

Lets keep this thread, chit-chat free. or strictly to topic.

BTW Nice thread

[Agis Tournas]

I think that there are some pretty good ideas in that thread, too
ETW Empire War Discussion Thread

[Reinoldus]

campaign Vh/Vh english not active scripts are points system and knights recruitment limitation not playing Total war but dlv civ like

first i wish to tell you all that i am a beginner with deus lo vult and things that are known and common to you are new for me so please dont hang me on my feedback (other thread responders i am talking about than).

I dont play the above scripts because i like to build free, just a personal thing, and a little bit also because if the king of england/or a nobleman wishes to build a church/stable in nothingham while in london he simply would send a clerk to do so, he doesnt have to be there to give the order (again thats a personal thougt why i dont like to play with the options wich limit my empire building possibilities and...ok i already get butchered in about turn 50 so i need some relieve)

I think the diplomacy ai can be balanced. Suddenly the civ style went to beserk with flanders/france/scotland attacking at the same time (with flanders and france being former allies and backstabing me) and ireland moving in (and stil active rebels)

Un the rebels i think it possibly has something to do with the civil war. Only problem is i cant kill the family rebel with my on forces, the rebel family member cant move to rebel or enemy stacks to get butchered so it is just standing there, so i totaly agree that there should be a option to take the family rebels out (love it if that option would be battle like real civil war) because i cant end it now.

I dont dislike the new world, but i am not sure wether i should wait until a pop up event the new world (if its in there) or should go there right away to make big cash. The fog is gone but the blockade for ships is still there but can be avoided by clicking in the new world region. I dont think that was the idea, els please tell me so because i need money

Wath i dont like are the message saying there is a trader in town or a banket, it simply never happens to me that it has any traits results. Useless in my opinion.

last great game, thx, sry for english.

greetzzz
Reinoldus

[La Bestia Von Garlet]

Hi, I am playing France in Historical campaign, VH/VH, and all scripts active but the character recruitment (don't like the idea of having a general sitting in a castle), and playing DLV civ like.

I think the game is really good right now, but I'd like to see more challenging missions and of course with better prizes.
Also when you have the "offensive to nobles" there could be a mission or something solid to do to prevent it to go further to a civil war.

Is it possible to select the career for your new trained general? That would be great too.

Also as Taiji pointed out, horde armies sometimes get too powerful, and many times they get more advanced units that they could train in their castle. That doens't make sense, and it is a big problem when they come back to retake their home lands and you have to defend with your tired and decimated forces, and of course worse in level. This is something that always annoys me

And maybe when you get to 100.000 florins you could get a penalty for "not sharing" or perhaps factions could increasingly turn to you because they see that your lands are really prosperous.

My ideas for now repman.
Keep up your good work mate.

[Shadrach]

I have all scripts except Total War enabled, prefer to play civ-style
Playing as Hungary.

Only played 30 years so can't really say anything about later years, coming directly from 5.7 I have to say I love 6.1 so far. The new interface is lovely, much better than the last! The revised graphics and units are great as well.

So far the campaign AI seems to respect alliances, but too early to tell. I've had a problem with DLV the last camplaigns in that previous allies seem to turn on you all at once, for no apparent reason. Time will tell if it happens again in 6.1...

Much respect to repman & al for their work!

[Brips]

I think you must delete the dark ages!! Not the black plague, but just all the wars for no reasons, that's not historical, non-sence and boring that a friend attack you!
Add a script who show the battles number of a general.

[Taiji]

I think that whether it's realistic or not you need more reason than plague to fear the dark ages. War with previous allies seems to me to be an excellent way to add fear to them. Perhaps instead we could go further and have massive rebel uprisings every now and then, we could arrange it so that a neighbouring nation goes to war with the player when the rebels arrive. A pop-up could warn the player about the insurection being instigated by a foreign power, if the rebels manage to take a settlement it comes under the ownership of the warring neighbour.

Back on feedback, I notice that enemy priests or temples are overly powerful. Ragusa has one border with a ortho nation and one ortho priest (3 piety) in it's lands and religion drops, it had a small chapel but even when it had a chapel and 3 of my own priests (2 cardinals) it was still being lost to the heathen. Maybe this was a freak occurance, I haven't tested this beyond noticing it happen in my latest campaign.

[Brips]

I like the idea of rebels, but I prefer just a simple uprising of rebels in each country.

[Agis Tournas]

I like the idea of rebels, but I prefer just a simple uprising of rebels in each country.

I think that whether it's realistic or not you need more reason than plague to fear the dark ages. War with previous allies seems to me to be an excellent way to add fear to them. Perhaps instead we could go further and have massive rebel uprisings every now and then, we could arrange it so that a neighbouring nation goes to war with the player when the rebels arrive. A pop-up could warn the player about the insurection being instigated by a foreign power, if the rebels manage to take a settlement it comes under the ownership of the warring neighbour.

This is a very good idea!
BRAVO Brips, Taiji..!

Back on feedback, I notice that enemy priests or temples are overly powerful. Ragusa has one border with a ortho nation and one ortho priest (3 piety) in it's lands and religion drops, it had a small chapel but even when it had a chapel and 3 of my own priests (2 cardinals) it was still being lost to the heathen. Maybe this was a freak occurance, I haven't tested this beyond noticing it happen in my latest campaign.

I have seen that in my Crusader States' campaign, too. In Jerusalem the religion is dropping even though I have there my highest level priest [Eraclius] and a temple and egypt have sent just a single priest of theirs...
:hmmm:

[Kjertesvein]

I think that whether it's realistic or not you need more reason than plague to fear the dark ages. War with previous allies seems to me to be an excellent way to add fear to them. Perhaps instead we could go further and have massive rebel uprisings every now and then, we could arrange it so that a neighbouring nation goes to war with the player when the rebels arrive. A pop-up could warn the player about the insurection being instigated by a foreign power, if the rebels manage to take a settlement it comes under the ownership of the warring neighbour.

Back on feedback, I notice that enemy priests or temples are overly powerful. Ragusa has one border with a ortho nation and one ortho priest (3 piety) in it's lands and religion drops, it had a small chapel but even when it had a chapel and 3 of my own priests (2 cardinals) it was still being lost to the heathen. Maybe this was a freak occurance, I haven't tested this beyond noticing it happen in my latest campaign.

Like the idea, about the rebels. But I fear for rebels being... boring enemy... unless they (impulsive) fight different from the "normal watch-dog"...hmmm. Depends how it's done.

The player is much smarter when it comes to placing priests on the campaign. I see the priest thing to, but what is the alternative? Mass recruitement for A.I priest? It would be boring if that would be a steam roll thing.

[Taiji]

3 high level priests and a level 2 temple seems like overkill to deal with 1 level 3 priest. In the early days this means you have no defence at all vs enemy religion. Later on I suspect it will force you to make an army of priests to be able to cope with enemy priest attacks. I could be totally wrong though, it could be enemy temples that are doing the converting - this I completely agree with.

I think the thing about the rebels being static might be to do with the rebel forts staying manned, I don't know. If the rebel AI can be altered mid campaign you could have periods of roaming followed by spawns in the forts and then periods of static rebels. It would be cool if the spawns in the forts moved your own troops out. Perhaps this is a better idea for making the dark ages "dark", the insurrection thing could be seperate I suppose. Damn, the more I think of these things the more I want to learn to script.

[Ragnarök]

I experienced that the trade resources are really valuable, maybe to much.
Especially America has extremly rich provinces. Since the AI seems not to
conquer and develop those regions, it would be good to reduce that a bit.

And generally the default battle, and campaign AI seems weak. Maybe you
could include "07/03/09 - Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.x" submod
and a better campaign AI for the next release.

[Xtiaan72]

I agree with that... The 'Early Merchants to the New World' is a huge game exploit at the moment... Easily abused. Don't know what if anything can be done about it.

Taiji's ideas for Dark Ages are really good! How bout Dark Ages 'devastating' all your lands as well up to '500' and destroying all your farms! and then peasant uprising event! Historically, the aristocrats could not maintain their estates because of all the dead peasants/ high cost of labor.. ( Did my final college paper for Western Civ on that!)

Blackleaf's ideas about getting in trouble with your nobles after losing really big battles is cool too. ( That's one thing that happens in Empire that could be put into DLV)... It could be a 'Tokus' event! Might get the 'Dungeon' a little more use!

[Brips]

"We" can add a system of relation between our own nobles and generals!
Jean-Paul doesn't like Jean-Pierre! I think the script with nobles are awesome, but we don't have a real feeling about all the troubles between all the nobles in a country. I'm speaking about the real feudal system

Adding the new mil point and gov in the pop-up is an obligation! Fortress-1 etc... Banneret +1 etc...

[Swiss Halberdier]

I've played DLV since 3.0. I started a new campaign with England.

Historical Campaign, VH/VH, England, all scripts except "character depended cavalry recruitment" enabled, Total War Style

Everything works fine for my first 20 turns and I like the new release very much.

Both the campaign and battle AI works good on my campaign. AI invades several times my british isles but did flee from my longbows and knights

The AI recruits flexible armies and also boards ships for invasions.

The historical news and the trade information screen are very useful.

>>> I did change the "descr_mercenaries.txt" file and did allow some other mercenaries on each faction and tweaked a little when they do appear in the game

So far I just can say that DLV 6.1 is the best M2TW-Mod I've ever played so far!

Congratulations to the MOD-Team and it would be great if you go on with DLV!

[Brips]

MAJOR BUG:
-Reflections on lots of units! Must absolutely fixed!
-Spear militia and militia invisible!
-Mongonels have no sound!