Unofficial Historical Mistake List Thread (To Help Modder)

[IndoPruss]

Post historical inaccuracy here to help modder do their work in fixing Empire vanilla. This is not intended to bash CA like always. The sole purpose of this is to help modder.

I'll try to compile it into the first post.

Please..

Ok here's the list so far:
-All Faction Uniform is incorrect
-Ottoman Bashi Basuks is light infantry with musket not armed mob
-France in late period use tricolor and blue where it suppose to be same Monarchy flag and white uniform.

[IndoPruss]

I remember Marshall Poniatowski and other historical writes many thing? Why not write the list now?

[jo the greek]

Is this unhistorical or flexible thought
for example ottoman empire created nizams army around 1828 although there was an ealrier try
Also steamboats were never used for warfare in that period

Now for some inaccuracies Bashi basuks were light infantry armed with muskets not sword equipped mob
Albanians fought more for the Ottomans and less for Austrians
and many more l

[IndoPruss]

Is this unhistorical or flexible thought
for example ottoman empire created nizams army around 1828 although there was an ealrier try
Also steamboats were never used for warfare in that period

Now for some inaccuracies Bashi basuks were light infantry armed with muskets not sword equipped mob
Albanians fought more for the Ottomans and less for Austrians
and many more l

Could you list the inaccuracy in detail?

[Satch234]

This isn't a huge deal but it does annoy me that for the late era custom battles, the flag of France is the tricolor, when in fact it wasn't adopted until 1794, so for most of the late 18th century, the bourbon royal flag was in use. The inaccuracy is heightened by the fact that the units are all wearing the bourbon/royalist white colored uniforms, so we know they're not Nappy's troops. Also units like the Maison du Roi and the Garde du Corps are in the roster, and they certainly would not like serving under the tricolor. If there's a way to switch the flag bearers to using the same flage they use in the "early" era, that would be great.

[Aloicias]

There are some inaccuracies that I see regarding Native American factions. 3 pertain to mixing up the names of factions calling factions the name of other factions.

1- THe Inuit are not the Inuit. They are the Montaignais, who are part of a group called the Innu. Which with a similiar name are very different. The Inuit are eskimos, the Innu are more like the wigwam and longhouse living Algonquins, same units, closely related, similiar culture. The faction they ar calling the Inuit do not occupy any territory that Inuit traditionally did. They occupy territory that Montaignais did, with the Montaignais like unit roster. Only Inuit in flag and name only, not even territory.

2- The Huron Confederacy. Know I know they did this because of the Last of Mohicans. The Huron Confederacy is more a staple of earlier days. In 1640 they were almost completely destroyed by the Iroquois. In 1700 ther are only two bands left of around 4000 people, that werent the "lower class" of the Iroquois at this time. One of the bands lived in Ohio....the other changed places a few times living close to the french. There is another confederacy there are Saulte St. Marie. Ultimately the Huron are part of it, but refering to it as the Huron confederacy is wrong. It takes away from probably the strongest native faction in the east, the Ojibwe. The faction at Ft. Saulte St. Marie should be called one of three things, the Algonquin Alliance, the great Algonquin family, or Annishiinabeg. The tribes in this alliance are the Ojibwe (atleast 50000), Ottawa, Potawatomi, and parts of the remaining Huron that are loyal. They are the reason the Iroquois are hunked down in NY, the Missausaugua Ojibwe chased the Iroquois back to NY. During this time period the Ojibwe also run the Sante Sioux out of MN. The flag is the black and gold thunderbird Ojibwe flag. They should be allied at the start with the french, and Louisiana, have military access like they do now.

3. The Pueblo- Not in TX, only in AZ, and NM were they can build thier - pueblos. TX is the plains and if they were there you probably never would have heard about them because the Comanches would have whiped them out. I propose doning away with them. Giving the territory of east TX to Spain, as it should, and creating another territory just west of San Antonio called Comancheria. The Comanches are the block fro Spanish expansion on the plains. The Pueblo did successfully over throw the Spanish a couple pf times. Then they were reconquored. The Pueblo were domicile. Hated by all ther other plains tribes. If they are to be in, they need to almost be an immergent from Sante Fe, and they need a completely different unit roster, one similiar to mexican town militia.

4- Michigan and Ohio together, I dont like it. Very different controlling one did not mean the control of the other and history tells us this. Then look at the way colonization of the area took place as well as treaties and ownership. The Iroquois dont own Michigan, the Algonquins do. But the Iroquois have claims on the Ohio through thier vassal/ descendants the Mingo.

5- Premature deforesting or the central midwest, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, and Illinious to reflect a scene in the early 19th century. Plus missing alot of good settlements in North America, i.e. green bay (le bay), Wisconsin, MN. Settlements that contrary to popular belief coorelate quite well transitioning from native to colonial hands. In the end it would make for a more rich complete North American experience.

6- Also I would like to see a couple south american native aux units.

7- The tribes on the eastern half of North America should have little infasis on cav at all besides maybe a low number scouting dragoon like unit. The lancers in the east gotsta go. I think reforesting would help this out abit.

[Spanky]

There are some inaccuracies that I see regarding Native American factions.

The way the Native Americans are portrayed in this game is a travesty, isn't it? It looks like the same troop types, including clothing styles and equipment are used by every single faction on the continent. I mean, as if the Pueblo and "Inuit" all had "Huron" hair styles and rode horses like the plains tribes. That whole area needs a major overhaul. Europa Barbarorum started as an answer to the oversimplification of the Gauls, Germans etc. but this looks far worse.

[Legio]

Moved to modding general discussion.

[JaM]

unit and weapon balance is incorrect - bowmen have same accuracy as light infantry skirmishers (skirmishers used rifled barrels or tighter bullets for improved accuracy). Line infantry units should differ for nations (Prussians should be able to reload really fast, French should reload slower,but they should have advantage in melee, etc...)

Ships are too vulnerable - after few minutes of battle, fregates could be sunk... i was totally in shock when pirate Fluit sunk my 5.rate Fregate in duel... Fregate should be much stronger...


Natives formations are ridiculous... seeing natives in perfect 3 rank formation is very wierd...

fire by rank fire discipline should be the basic for all western armies - only natives should be restricted - Fire by rank is old fire discipline -firstly was used by Italian and Spanish Arquebusiers/crossbomwen during Italian wars in late 15-early 16 century - having it as a new tech in early 18.century is wrong.

[Sorkenlol]

As far as I know, the Swedish unit "Hakkapeliitat" weren't used in this period but over 50 years before.

[Ludicus]

In 1700, the Portuguese Kingdom was based on the principle of absolute monarchy.
In the game, Portugal is a constitutional monarchy.:hmmm:

[HereticFang]

As far as I know, the Swedish unit "Hakkapeliitat" weren't used in this period but over 50 years before.

Now you're wrong.. :hmmm:

I'm from Finland \o/, and the 'Hakkapeliitat' (in the game pronounced stupidly as hakkapellita) were the swedish elite cavalry unit of finnish horsemen. They were used in Luetzen and in battles after it. Hakkapeliitat is surely this eras units..

[Btw. Dunno if this interests anybody, but the name hakkapeliitta comes from the shout, that this finnish cavalry used when they charged to the flanks or rear of the enemy. They shouted "Hakkaa päälle!" which translated to english, would mean something like "Get 'em" or "Beat them up!".]

[von_Liewen]

Now you're wrong.. :hmmm:

I'm from Finland \o/, and the 'Hakkapeliitat' (in the game pronounced stupidly as hakkapellita) were the swedish elite cavalry unit of finnish horsemen. They were used in Luetzen and in battles after it. Hakkapeliitat is surely this eras units..

[Btw. Dunno if this interests anybody, but the name hakkapeliitta comes from the shout, that this finnish cavalry used when they charged to the flanks or rear of the enemy. They shouted "Hakkaa päälle!" which translated to english, would mean something like "Get 'em" or "Beat them up!".]

You may be from Finlands but he's not wrong. The last of Hakkapellitas was disbanded in 1660, fourty years before the game starts, at this point in history the three Finnish cavalry regiments (Åbo och Björneborgs läns kavalleriregemente, Nylands och Tavastehus läns kavalleriregement and Viborgs och Nyslotts läns kavalleriregemente) fought in the Swedish arms blanche manner. There was nothing that set them apart in uniforms, training or doctrine from the Swedish cavalry regiments.

[thrashing_mad]

Polish winged hussar models have XVIIth century looks. What`s worse, they appear only after a lot of research (at the end of the game), while in reality they disappeared from PLC armies in first decades of XVIIIth century.

[Fjodin]

Uniforms are wrong

Reloading of muskets should be a little bit slower. Yes, they fire 3 times a minute, but to simulate real battle conditions shey should fire a LITTLE BIT slower. maybe not 3 tomes pper minute which is 20 seconds reloading but 25 seconds reloading.

Cannons reloading time is wrong. Its too fast. Yest they have good reloading animations with good unit speed but, artilleryman just put canon ball in cannon. in real life there should be a gunpowder bag!!!

[Szun]

Uniforms are wrong

Reloading of muskets should be a little bit slower. Yes, they fire 3 times a minute, but to simulate real battle conditions shey should fire a LITTLE BIT slower. maybe not 3 tomes pper minute which is 20 seconds reloading but 25 seconds reloading.

Cannons reloading time is wrong. Its too fast. Yest they have good reloading animations with good unit speed but, artilleryman just put canon ball in cannon. in real life there should be a gunpowder bag!!!

ever read the "Sharpe" books?

3x a minute is green british troops after "basic" training
veterans fire up to 5 times a minute

but i guess that only british and maybe some prussian troops could do that.


as for arty..the most work is to bring the gun back in fireing position after recoil, not the loading, unless its a fixed position which is higher in the rear to get the gun back easier.

[Lupu]

This is balance related, but many armored units have extremely low defence, while unarmored ones have very high.
For example the ottoman early line inf(don't remember the name) has chanmail, but their defence is not any higher than other inf units of the same quality.
The swedish Hakkapeliita are wearing a cuirass and a helm, but have one of the lowest cav defense ratings in the game, and are the weakest cavalry of sweden.
The turksih sipahi ale wearing chainmail coats, lamellar and a helm, but their defence rating is also very low.
On the other side for example the houshehold guard cavalry is wearing fine clothing only, and has a near godly defence rating.
Also many units with shields don't even get a minor advantage over units without.

If armor really is that useless, how can it be it has been used for so long, it didn't help against guns, that's whay it became uncommon, not because it magically became useless.

[InfUA]

This is balance related, but many armored units have extremely low defence, while unarmored ones have very high.
For example the ottoman early line inf(don't remember the name) has chanmail, but their defence is not any higher than other inf units of the same quality.
The swedish Hakkapeliita are wearing a cuirass and a helm, but have one of the lowest cav defense ratings in the game, and are the weakest cavalry of sweden.
The turksih sipahi ale wearing chainmail coats, lamellar and a helm, but their defence rating is also very low.
On the other side for example the houshehold guard cavalry is wearing fine clothing only, and has a near godly defence rating.
Also many units with shields don't even get a minor advantage over units without.

If armor really is that useless, how can it be it has been used for so long, it didn't help against guns, that's whay it became uncommon, not because it magically became useless.

Thats because a modern army is much more than chainmail, its military drill, discipline and teamwork with proper tactics.

[Lupu]

Thats because a modern army is much more than chainmail, its military drill, discipline and teamwork with proper tactics.

Defence rating is the defence capability of individual soldiers in stats, a soldier with armor has a chance of deflecting a blow or reducing it, but in ETW unarmored units mostly take more hits to kill.

[InfUA]

Defence rating is the defence capability of individual soldiers in stats, a soldier with armor has a chance of deflecting a blow or reducing it, but in ETW unarmored units mostly take more hits to kill.

No, sorry, but we are now in a time of united soldiers, a single soldier was nothing but the team was all. Napoleon said as he gone to Egypt, "maybe a single mameluk is better than every single french soldier but a unit of 100 french soldiers would beat 1000 mameluks". The defence skill is for a unit not for single soldier, the time of warriors and knights is over in empire tw.