UK mulls lifting ban on Hezbollah

[Каие]

UK mulls lifting ban on Hezbollah

Britain is considering dropping a ban on contact with the political wing of the Lebanese militant group, Hezbollah, a British minister has confirmed.

The government has had no official talks with Hezbollah since 2005. But the UK's ambassador in Beirut has had contact with at least one Hezbollah politician since the group joined the country's unity government last June. British ministers say there are no similar plans to open a dialogue with the Palestinian militant group, Hamas.

Hard to avoid

Only last year, the government put Hezbollah's military wing on a list of proscribed organisations over its alleged training of insurgents in Iraq. But speaking to members of the Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee, Foreign Office minister Bill Rammell confirmed that the government is now looking for ways to establish contact with the organisation's political wing.

Since last summer, the party has been part of Lebanon's national unity government and officials admit that contact is hard to avoid. In the words of one official in London, there is a lot of political and security fragility in Lebanon - which he says means the UK should do what it can to support the government.

There is no such rethink going on with regard to the Palestinian group, Hamas. Mr Rammell said the government wanted to get to a position where it could engage directly with Hamas. But he said there had to be substantive movement towards internationally agreed principles, including the rejection of violence and recognition of Israel's right to exist, before that could happen.

I fully agree with this policy of lifting the 'ban' on Hezbollah's political wing opening up dialogue and negotiation. My reasoning follows the Party line really: http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/...nd_Europe.aspx

A Conservative Government's approach to foreign affairs will be based on liberal Conservative principles.

Liberal, because Britain must be open and engaged with the world, supporting human rights and championing the cause of democracy and the rule of law at every opportunity. But Conservative, because our policy must be hard-headed and practical, dealing with the world as it is and not as we wish it were.
[...]

Same reasoning dictates we should open up talks with the Hamas party's political wing.




UPDATE:

UK OFFICIALLY RESTORES HEZBOLLAH TIES

Britain says it is re-establishing contacts with the political wing of the Lebanese movement Hezbollah.

The move follows "positive political developments" in Lebanon, officials from the UK Foreign Office said.
It comes about 10 months after Hezbollah signed a unity accord in Lebanon and joined the government.
Only last year, the government put Hezbollah's military wing on a list of proscribed organisations over its alleged training of insurgents in Iraq.
"We are exploring certain contacts at an official level with Hezbollah's political wing, including MPs," said a spokesperson for the Foreign Office.
The spokesperson said the UK was doing "all it can" to support Lebanon's unity government, of which Hezbollah's political wing is a part.
"Our objective with Hezbollah remains to encourage them to move away from violence and play a constructive, democratic and peaceful role in Lebanese politics, in line with a range of UN Security Council Resolutions."
The spokesperson said Britain would continue to have no contact with Hezbollah's military wing.

[Thorn777]

Yes and Yes, anything else is maintaining a status-quo, or means a major war to happen sooner or later.

"Endless diplomacy is better then endless war" Henry Kissinger.

+ It did the trick with the IRA isnt it?

[cristophe el perno]

Tories have certianly got it right on this count. Hezbollah might have weapons and a history of using them, but if they're part of the Lebanese governemnt (which I think is democratic) then we should talk to them.

I personally think the same should go for Hamas - we don't achieve anything by refusing to talk to people. They might not listen, but the least we can do is talk to them.

[Carach]

Yes and Yes, anything else is maintaining a status-quo, or means a major war to happen sooner or later.

"Endless diplomacy is better then endless war" Henry Kissinger.

+ It did the trick with the IRA isnt it?

war is inevitable whether we talk to them or not thorn. The ME is one big war that only ever has short breaks.

Personally i say no to this one for various reasons:

1-Do we really have much influence over there these days? nobody cares about us and we shouldnt be caring about them.
2-political wing or not they are directly related to the military wing. Thus we shouldnt be dealing with them.
3-Backing down on this and comencing talks with them again makes us look weak. Compromises our principles and policies.
4-Status quo is fine with me. Call me selfish but i couldnt care less about hezbollah and co.

[Justinian]

Don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Thorn777]

Don't negotiate with terrorists.

Maintaining all these labels wont solve a thing, although it sounds nice. On the same note many Palastines and Libanese label "the west" all sorts of stuff. So why not go around the labels, and sort things out.

Moral highground, or not (another label).

[Каие]

Don't negotiate with terrorists.

Sounds awfully like that tit, Bush.

[Zephyrus]

Sounds awfully like that tit, Bush.

Besides, we're talking about the political wing, not the ''Security'' wing.

The political wing does nothing more than justify the actions of the security wing through propoganda and about-face overtures for freedom to continue its rhetoric. They are both parts of the terror group.

UPDATE:

UK OFFICIALLY RESTORES HEZBOLLAH TIES

Wow, GG UK. So much for sensible politics.

[Justinian]

Hezbollah sponsors terrorism and murder, and as such deserves neither attention nor respect.

Hamas took the opportunity during the confrontation with Israel to execute Fatah members, and as such deserve neither attention nor respect.

Seems to me that both are about as democratically elected as Chavez.

[Martin N]

Hezbollah sponsors terrorism and murder, and as such deserves neither attention nor respect.

Hamas took the opportunity during the confrontation with Israel to execute Fatah members, and as such deserve neither attention nor respect.

Seems to me that both are about as democratically elected as Chavez.

Hypocrisy at its finest, Let us not forget we have been supporting terrorism for many years, who created al queda ? we did, who supported bin laden ? we did, who supports terrorist groups in iran ? we do, Let us not forget we sponsored the biggest terrorist state in the world...israel, we even give them nukes, but yet we piss and moan that iran seeks to get nuclear technology, when we have 1000's its all a big hypocrisy,

Also we are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, though iran might just come close to us.

Onto the subject of murder, we have sponsored 100's of thousands of murders in iraq and afghanistan, on an extremeley feeble excuse, first it was WMDS, (like were trying to pull in iran), and now its terrorists, even though most of them was never in iraq or afghanistan to begin with, we are the only ones ever to use nuclear bombs in combat, and most importantly of all, given our current situation, we will most likeley go into pakistan and iran, man its funny because i remember obama promising to end this bs war on terror, Its been proven what ive said all along, Same people, Different party, weve been fooled again.

[Zephyrus]

I have a question. Instead of talking to hezbollah, why not use m16 to eradicate it completely?

[Justinian]

I have a question. Instead of talking to hezbollah, why not use m16 to eradicate it completely?

It is an interesting dilemma.

Should we, as supposedly enlightened Westerners, always seek the moral high ground? Or should we negotiate with Hezbollah the same way they would negotiate with us if they had the chance, with bullets?

[Zephyrus]

It is an interesting dilemma.

Should we, as supposedly enlightened Westerners, always seek the moral high ground? Or should we negotiate with Hezbollah the same way they would negotiate with us if they had the chance, with bullets?

I don't see it as that much of a dilemma. What is hezbollah's stated goal? What is the point of its existence? Is it peace? Diplomacy? Or is it vengeance?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

I have a question. Instead of talking to hezbollah, why not use m16 to eradicate it completely?

Because they tried that with F-16s and Merkeva tanks and failed miserably.

The fact is that continued US pressure demanding that Hamas, the majority government of Palestine, must be ignored in any peace initiative is perhaps the second biggest impediment to peace in the Middle-East, the biggest being, of course, continued Israeli settlement-building on occupied Palestinian territories.

No. even though I voted yes. Do not negotiate with Terrorist organizations or groups.

Right-wing Israel (Likud, Shas, etc) believes that the use of force, even the type that kills scores of civilians, is important and justified for the sake of furthering political objectives (which, by the way, is the exact definition of terrorism). The 22-day Gaza blitz is evidence enough for this argument. If you want, we can call them terrorists and isolate them but in the process, we'll only make peace more impossible.

[Pious Agnost]

Supposing they are terrorists, which I don't believe they are. Not negotiating with them achieves nothing. A lift on Hezbollah and Hamas' political wings is a good move.

[Carach]

Right-wing Israel (Likud, Shas, etc) believes that the use of force, even the type that kills scores of civilians, is important and justified for the sake of furthering political objectives (which, by the way, is the exact definition of terrorism). The 22-day Gaza blitz is evidence enough for this argument. If you want, we can call them terrorists and isolate them but in the process, we'll only make peace more impossible.

the generally accepted definition(s) of terrorism wouldnt allow for israel to be branded terrorists.

And guess who else thought talking to terrorists was good? Neville Chamberlain.

the Axis of ww2 wouldnt be considered terrorists under any definitions that have existed.

That's an incredibly archaic way of looking at things, albeit probably action-packed. You can not simply push the Palestinians off of their [this] land, they're fighting a guerilla war. You've got to win the hearts and minds, otherwise you're going to shoot every last one of them as they pick up the RPG, which according to the circle of terrorism, they will as you kill off their family

'Palestinians' as a people has never existed, and they have never had their own land. the UN's decision to split palestine into several pieces gave these people their own land. they refused to accept this.

the difference between guerilla war and terrorism is that one is purely military based (fighting the enemy soldiers etc on occupied land) to achieve political ends, the other tends to target civilians to achieve its political goals.
So ultimately theres a few problems with branding the likes of HAMAS as merely guerillas; they target civilians specifically, and they arent attacking occupied land technically. (to them they will argue differently but the rest of the world acknowledges Israel as a state and thus HAMAS become terrorists)

[Azog 150]

Peace? By bolstering an Iranian proxy that wishes to turn a predominantly Christian state into a militant, Shiite, Ayatollah governed craphole?

No buck for you.

If anything, it will help us combat Iranian influence.

Anyway, an issue as sensitive as this will probably have needed some US backing before it went ahead. The chances are the US has given us the Green Light.

[Pious Agnost]

'Palestinians' as a people has never existed, and they have never had their own land. the UN's decision to split palestine into several pieces gave these people their own land. they refused to accept this.

the difference between guerilla war and terrorism is that one is purely military based (fighting the enemy soldiers etc on occupied land) to achieve political ends, the other tends to target civilians to achieve its political goals.
So ultimately theres a few problems with branding the likes of HAMAS as merely guerillas; they target civilians specifically, and they arent attacking occupied land technically. (to them they will argue differently but the rest of the world acknowledges Israel as a state and thus HAMAS become terrorists)

I regret not knowing enough about the origin to talk about the first point, so for now, I'll just assume it's true
Second point, regardless, the 'Hearts and minds' point still stands

[Carach]

I regret not knowing enough about the origin to talk about the first point, so for now, I'll just assume it's true
Second point, regardless, the 'Hearts and minds' point still stands

yeeee

hearts and minds does still stand. but remember what subject ur talking about. there's no way in hell Israel's going to win hearts and minds over a group of people that want nothing more than its annihilation for religious reasons (never mind the atrocities that have admittedly gone on at the hands of israelis in the past.. but thats neither here nor there)

and if u think the UK are going to help win those hearts and minds by making pointless speechs that arent backed up well.. damn thats not realistic

[Каие]

UPDATE:

UK OFFICIALLY RESTORES HEZBOLLAH TIES

Britain says it is re-establishing contacts with the political wing of the Lebanese movement Hezbollah.

The move follows "positive political developments" in Lebanon, officials from the UK Foreign Office said.
It comes about 10 months after Hezbollah signed a unity accord in Lebanon and joined the government.
Only last year, the government put Hezbollah's military wing on a list of proscribed organisations over its alleged training of insurgents in Iraq.
"We are exploring certain contacts at an official level with Hezbollah's political wing, including MPs," said a spokesperson for the Foreign Office.
The spokesperson said the UK was doing "all it can" to support Lebanon's unity government, of which Hezbollah's political wing is a part.
"Our objective with Hezbollah remains to encourage them to move away from violence and play a constructive, democratic and peaceful role in Lebanese politics, in line with a range of UN Security Council Resolutions."
The spokesperson said Britain would continue to have no contact with Hezbollah's military wing.