Diplomacy - how it works

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Has anyone figured it out how diplomacy really works?

Honestly I'm a bit puzzled. First off, the lowest amount you can offer as payment is 1000 golds (for major nations), which is a bit much (it could be 100 imo). Secondly, the AI is sometimes ridiculously stubborn (just as in the previous games). I offered alliance/trade agreement to countries much smaller than mine (Austria) that were either indifferent or friendly towards me, and they took offense at these proposals.

The diplomacy window consists of 2 panels - minor and major nations. Does someone know the limit between the two? How much settlements do you have to have to become a major nation?

I see the following information next to the faction name: religion (Orthodox, Protestant, Islam etc.), government (Absolute monarchy / Republic), and finally their stance towards me (hostile / unfriendly / indifferent / friendly / allies). Does this mean that religion and government types influence the diplomatic relations?

On another note, did someone succeed to get his allies to help him in a war? I couldn't yet, that's why I'm asking.

[Maizel]

A 1000m isn;t much. No as much as in previous TW games.

Major nations are just the playable ones. afaik.

[colin666]

A 1000m isn;t much. No as much as in previous TW games.

Major nations are just the playable ones. afaik.

pretty sure the Mughals are a major nation

[Sorkenlol]

Has anyone figured it out who diplomacy works?

Honestly I'm a bit puzzled. First off, the lowest amount you can offer as payment is 1000 golds (for major nations), which is a bit much (it could be 100 imo). Secondly, the AI is sometimes ridiculously stubborn (just as in the previous games). I offered alliance/trade agreement to countries much smaller than mine (Austria) that were either indifferent or friendly towards

Actually you can offer or demand less money, just press "Payments" and you can type in any number you want afaik. I've only played a few turns on normal campaign difficulty and some factions just wont bend over.. I'm playing as Great Britain, "Terrifying" power and very rich, and "Feeble", "Meagre" Denmark wont give me Iceland, a remote island far away, making barely any money at all, in exchange for peace, they had about 5 allies of mine on them, ready to lay down their arms if I gave the word. Stubborn indeed. I just hope Very Hard wont make them even more stubborn

On another note, did someone succeed to get his allies to help him in a war?

Sure, I think it depends on the power of the enemy you're fighting though, and for what reasons you're doing it. I declared war against Denmark, we were "Unfriendly" and they had just turned down 3 very good offers that might have earned us a lifelong peace. I declared war, and every single one of my allies joined me, about 5 or 6 I think.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Actually you can offer or demand less money, just press "Payments" and you can type in any number you want afaik. I've only played a few turns on normal campaign difficulty and some factions just wont bend over.. I'm playing as Great Britain, "Terrifying" power and very rich, and "Feeble", "Meagre" Denmark wont give me Iceland, a remote island far away, making barely any money at all, in exchange for peace, they had about 5 allies of mine on them, ready to lay down their arms if I gave the word. Stubborn indeed. I just hope Very Hard wont make them even more stubborn

I guess it's up to prestige then. The manual says that "prestige is a measure of your reputation amongst rival nations." "Prestige is earned in many ways including winning battles, researching technology and constructing certain buildings". I guess not-backstabbing your allies help too.

Sure, I think it depends on the power of the enemy you're fighting though, and for what reasons you're doing it. I declared war against Denmark, we were "Unfriendly" and they had just turned down 3 very good offers that might have earned us a lifelong peace. I declared war, and every single one of my allies joined me, about 5 or 6 I think.

Wow, that's cool. Please elaborate. Did you get a message from them, that they will come or they just showed up in the party at once? Did you play allied battles? How could you cooperate?

Well I just got the strangest diplomatic offer I have ever seen.
I took Courland and the next turn I got a offer from Prussia.
They wanted Courland(who knows why, it's a dump) and in return I got east Prussia, Square formation and 1000 gold.
Since East Prussia is far more developed I said yes but it did leave me a bit stunned wondering what the catch was.

That's stupid. Why would they do that? This seems to be a massive flaw.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

That's stupid. Why would they do that? This seems to be a massive flaw.

I don't know either.
Maybe Courland is unpolished diamond just waiting for someone to develop it ??
Still it was a funny moment and it atleast shows that the AI is alive.

[Arcaliea]

Hold up - it shows the AI is 'alive'? If anything it shows that the AI is stupid.

They've always been "stubborn" in RTW/MTW2 in the sense that they would rarely agree to any reasonable deal you offered them (hell, sometimes they would refuse when you offered to return cities you just took from them). I had hoped ETW would actually revamp this system, but what I'm hearing so far is both good and bad.

What about that persistent question of protectorates/vassals through diplomacy?

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Hold up - it shows the AI is 'alive'? If anything it shows that the AI is stupid.

Stupid maybe(as I said, there might be reasons that the AI considered Courland was a great catch that I didn't see) but I have never gotten an offer like that before, hell in the other games I was happy if the AI even bothered with diplomacy.
So it's nice to see that it's doing something atleast.

[Sorkenlol]

Wow, that's cool. Please elaborate. Did you get a message from them, that they will come or they just showed up in the party at once? Did you play allied battles? How could you cooperate?

Well, since the first turn I had tried to get Denmark to give me Iceland, I offered them money, territory and alliance, but I got turned down on all 3 conditions. After that our standings were "Unfriendly" and I decided to declare a war, I was going to get Iceland, no matter what. After declaring the war, all of my allies "joined" the battle, they all declared war with denmark, just like that. I'm not sure, I think a window popped up telling me who joined the battle, I can't recall all of it though.

We didn't play any battles togheter, no, they just declared war with denmark, I'm not even sure they attacked Denmark. I'm still only about 4-5 turns in on that save, I'll continue playing it later and tell you how it went.

[leinad312]

I declared war, and every single one of my allies joined me, about 5 or 6 I think.

One problem I see with having your allies join you is that if you later make peace with the enemy, your allies don't also. This makes it impossible to end a world war if you have many allies. If I remember correctly in M2TW, if you make peace with the enemy, your allies will too.

[aves]

One problem I see with having your allies join you is that if you later make peace with the enemy, your allies don't also. This makes it impossible to end a world war if you have many allies. If I remember correctly in M2TW, if you make peace with the enemy, your allies will too.

Not so... in M2TW, one of my favorite tactics is/was to get an alliance with a top faction that could be a dangerous rival, attack another top faction, and then lure my new enemy into attacking me while my ally was nearby (works better in naval battles). This brings two power factions to war with each other. I then make peace and let them duke it out... once one is significantly weak, move in for the kill... taking out two rival powers and gaining vast territory with only minor loses.

Not sure if this ploy will work in ETW, but it worked like a charm in RTW and M2TW

[leinad312]

Not so... in M2TW, one of my favorite tactics is/was to get an alliance with a top faction that could be a dangerous rival, attack another top faction, and then lure my new enemy into attacking me while my ally was nearby (works better in naval battles). This brings two power factions to war with each other. I then make peace and let them duke it out... once one is significantly weak, move in for the kill... taking out two rival powers and gaining vast territory with only minor loses.

Not sure if this ploy will work in ETW, but it worked like a charm in RTW and M2TW

hmm... maybe it was vassals then. I think your vassals stopped warring when you declared peace with the enemy. The protectorates in ETW just keep on warring.

[Ketzerfreund]

Had someone not complained about making too much money? Who knows, maybe just like the scale of the population numbers the economic scale has been tweaked, too. [/shrug]

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Well I just got the strangest diplomatic offer I have ever seen.
I took Courland and the next turn I got a offer from Prussia.
They wanted Courland(who knows why, it's a dump) and in return I got east Prussia, Square formation and 1000 gold.
Since East Prussia is far more developed I said yes but it did leave me a bit stunned wondering what the catch was.

[Arksa]

Well I just got the strangest diplomatic offer I have ever seen.
I took Courland and the next turn I got a offer from Prussia.
They wanted Courland(who knows why, it's a dump) and in return I got east Prussia, Square formation and 1000 gold.
Since East Prussia is far more developed I said yes but it did leave me a bit stunned wondering what the catch was.

Wow....they offered me the same thing except a different tech

what's with the obsession for getting Courland?

[Aradiel]

Wow....they offered me the same thing except a different tech

what's with the obsession for getting Courland?

Got the same offer as well.

[Kiwi.]

Wow....they offered me the same thing except a different tech

what's with the obsession for getting Courland?

They did the same for me as well, however I turned them down. As soon as I took Lithuania they offered me East Prussia for Lithuania! Prussia must have some major issues with that province. Anyways worked out nicely for me, got a monopoly on all the trade in the baltic and a high tier barracks in Konigsberg.

[MightyHealthy]

They did the same for me as well, however I turned them down. As soon as I took Lithuania they offered me East Prussia for Lithuania! Prussia must have some major issues with that province. Anyways worked out nicely for me, got a monopoly on all the trade in the baltic and a high tier barracks in Konigsberg.

Russia offered me Finland and some other assorted good for Courland whilst i was playing as Prussia

I think maybe its because the region of Courland is the historic allseason port Russia was driving toward on the Baltic (i believe).... but i dont think ETW would have put this into the game and however this doesnt explain Prussia's strange actions... do they even need it for campaign objectives??
Probably some serious Diplo bug/glitch that will be ironed out...

Or its some super smart smaller (or militaryily weaker) factions that are trying to apease their far more aggressive neighbours by handing over a nicer province for the Courlandish backwater.... me dont think AI that smart.....

[Sibben]

Well I just got the strangest diplomatic offer I have ever seen.
I took Courland and the next turn I got a offer from Prussia.
They wanted Courland(who knows why, it's a dump) and in return I got east Prussia, Square formation and 1000 gold.
Since East Prussia is far more developed I said yes but it did leave me a bit stunned wondering what the catch was.

Happened to me too. I refused but they kept coming back. Probably the old thing from MTW2 where certain factions just really want certain areas. For historical reasons I guess.

[Ketzerfreund]

Sorkenlol, next time when declaring war look out for a small checkbox under the list of your allies in the DoW when in the diplomacy window. You can actually decide if you want to ask them to join you. I guess you are supposed to decide on how much to stress your alliance...


Oh, and again:

Had someone not complained about making too much money? Who knows, maybe just like the scale of the population numbers the economic scale has been tweaked, too. [/shrug]

...which would make the stepping of 1000 Whatever-¢urren¢y-that-i$-in-the-eng£ish-language-version plausible.