Campaign AI Snowballing

[ricbar89]

I have been playing TW since Shogun and one thing that has always really bothered me about the game is AI snowballing.

If you’re unsure what im talking about its when the AI factions essentially wipe each other out, one faction (in Rome its usually the Seleucid or Ptolemaic Empires for example) would grow in power over the course of the game until they became an unstoppable force for any other AI faction, conquering half the map alone. This meant that you would loose the opportunity to fight half the factions as they would have been wiped out by the time you came into any real contact and the game would deteriorate in fighting waves of AI stacks. By the end of a Grand Campaign you could only expect there to be 1 or 2 giant factions left.

Its something I really hate, its unrealistic and destroys the atmosphere, especailly in the Medieval and now Empire eras, its totally inaccurate. Its put me off playing the Grand Campaign for any real period since Shogun unless im using mods that help to balance it more. When i get Empire the last thing I want is to find there’s only a few massive factions left ruling Europe and the colonies by my 100th turn, I want to see the factions struggling with each other and the player for power for the course of the whole game with real diplomacy and real wars.

So my question is for those of you have been playing for a while, does this happen in Empire? I heard CA overhauled the campaign, will this stop AI snowballing? I was looking at the achievements I noticed you get some for conquering America and India but one for only “subduing” Europe. Does this mean European powers can not really conquer each other in the same manner from past games? I was hoping for something along those lines. Is there a giant unstoppable faction conquering everything, wiping out half the other factions alone and churning out stacks or is it staying balanced?

Its a big question I know, thanks.

[parchy]

I'm not sure if anybody's played enough to comment, but I can say that for the first time -- ever in TW I think -- I actually got some people declaring war on me off the bat. They probably shouldn't have, but still, that kind of shows that there's some aggressiveness from the little guys. With that in mind I'd find it hard to believe that the little factions just sit on their hands and wait to die.

[SGT Grimm 978]

I'm not sure if anybody's played enough to comment, but I can say that for the first time -- ever in TW I think -- I actually got some people declaring war on me off the bat. They probably shouldn't have, but still, that kind of shows that there's some aggressiveness from the little guys. With that in mind I'd find it hard to believe that the little factions just sit on their hands and wait to die.

Dude, trust me with all the TW fanatics out there at least some of them are already onto their second campaign

[MasterAdnin]

From what I've been hearing, the larger a power(Nation) gets, the more other nations tend to go to war and attack it. So I doubt that there is going to be one almighty giant faction like there were in Rome or M2.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Fraggle57]

In M2 I try to keep an eye on the largest other factions and target to cause trouble so that there never is a single big enemy to face later on. It doen't always work out as you can not always 'get at em', but it is worth the effort to pick a fight sometimes.

[Daeger]

Playing with Sweden at the moment an uh.. well there have been a lot of wars all around but only some minor factions have been destroyed. I think the wars are a lot harder now and the outcome of war may depend on one single battle. I lost a war against prussia because they totally kicked my ass with their more advanced military technology. I was so pleasently suprised because of this. I have never lost a war in this way in TW series. xP

So yea, I don't think there is any "snowballing" here, although Britain is incredibly powerful in the beginning.

I have had a few CTD's.

Moving agents is a little buggy because when you select an agent you actually select the army in the settlement and you move the army when you want to move the agent. It's a little annoying sometimes.

AI doesn't handle the fixed cannons very well, but the battle AI is very good otherwise.

Campaign AI on the other hand is just awesome. The AI allies actually help you, although depending on who attacks who and what kind of relations they have with the combatants. The AI distrupts your economy during war time very well and I actually saw AI fight a proxy war against me. Diplomacy is just magnificient compared to many other games like Civilizations and previous TW games. It actually makes sense. The only thing that really bothered me was that the AI doesn't really trade techs easily.

[Gigahertz]

Well I started a campaign as the UK today and im at war with Sweeden and Prussia to defend my allys in the first 3 turns though 1 faction did get wiped out but i think it was jyst a small one.

[Shadow8]

i dont have the game yet, but i've read a few player reviews, i ignore people who gives games perfect scores, that's absurd, but almost everything else i've read isn't good... i saw one 9/10 (this is all on gamespot) that aknowledges a few flaws, but the rest were very low in my opinion mainly do to the AI. i've heard that the campaign AI makes diplomacy useless, runs its armies around like "chickens witout heads" and things like that. honestly im a littleworried. i should be getting it in a few hours so i'll decide for myself then

[carlisimo]

That's funny, this whole time I've been saying that Shogun was better than Rome or Medieval 2 because by the time you controlled half the map, one other faction had grown in power to match you. I think it's much more challenging than when you own half the map and everyone else is still the same size at which they started.

Snowballing is good!

[Chlodwig I.]

That's funny, this whole time I've been saying that Shogun was better than Rome or Medieval 2 because by the time you controlled half the map, one other faction had grown in power to match you. I think it's much more challenging than when you own half the map and everyone else is still the same size at which they started.

Snowballing is good!

hm somehow right.

[ricbar89]

Thanks for the help, from what a can see overall the campaign AI sounds much improved, and that will hopefully put an end to the unauthentic stack wars snowballing creates.

That's funny, this whole time I've been saying that Shogun was better than Rome or Medieval 2 because by the time you controlled half the map, one other faction had grown in power to match you. I think it's much more challenging than when you own half the map and everyone else is still the same size at which they started.

Snowballing is good!

I disagree, it’s a sign of the failure to balance the game correctly if the only way the AI can offer a challenge is to throw countless stacks at you until all battles have lost meaning and you end up auto resolving everything. Rome was much mightier than the Parthians but could never subdue them due to many other factors, TW games should try to do the same.

Snowballing means campaigns eventually loose all authenticity and significance which is bad for a historically focused game. If you want a scenario where one faction wipes every other out it and ownes ever corner of the map might as well be set in some fantasy world, whats the point in setting the games in periods of history if it cant simulate it correctly?

Also its can become boring and repetitive as you’re fighting the same faction over and over again for half of the game.

[xor0]

a scenario where one faction wipes every other out it and ownes ever corner of the map

Er, isn't that what the player is doing? How realistic is that?

Wading thru a dozen no-hope small factions in the endgame is boring, that's why you only need to conquer a certain number of provinces to win.

Another vote for snowballing. Gives some challenge at the end.

[ricbar89]

Er, isn't that what the player is doing? How realistic is that?

Wading thru a dozen no-hope small factions in the endgame is boring, that's why you only need to conquer a certain number of provinces to win.

Another vote for snowballing. Gives some challenge at the end.

Like the post above yours, no not always, some people just like to conquer everything, other people like to think about it more and try to play in a more authentic fashion, snowballing makes it impossible. Seeing half of Europe controlled by France and the other by Russia doesn’t do it for some people, the AI will conquer every corner if it can.

And "Wading thru a dozen no-hope small factions"? Didnt you read my part about the fact the only way to make a challenge it through having hundreds of stacks thrown at you, all from the same factions with the same units?

[Pierre Bezukhov]

How realistic is that?

Very realistic, actually. That's what an EMPIRE is, actually-- a faction that has snowballed. They've existed since the dawn of history. So why not in the game? Some people don't enjoy a challenge, some of us do.

[ohnoesaz]

I would love to have the AI on my game snowball in power... That would mean the game actually worked. What a thought....

[The Rights 2]

ive read those review just then shadow and there are two that underlines all the whining about the game so far

"Its really good, its just not good enough"

and "Sega's decision on using "steam" has made internet connection a requirement to play Empire."

now correct me if im wrong but shouldn't he be saying CA?

[Unknown User]

I think that the biggest problem with AI snowballing is that many of us prefer to play non-expansionist. I found in M2TW, for example, that I enjoyed the game much more if I didn't rush out and try to stomp everyone right off the bat. If i played defensively, slowly taking rebel settlements and only declaring war on those who attack me first, I enjoyed the game much more.

When the AI snowballs against a player like that, it really makes the game boring. Suddenly, you're not picking and choosing which neighbor you're going to fight, you're just dealing with a massive enemy throwing stacks of soldiers into the meat grinder.

[Akhil_The_Great]

didn't they add the feature of limited war? where the Faction attacked only colonies not the homeland in Europe?

How long the wars last in E:TW? i hope they don't last like 20 turns like in the older games

[carlisimo]

In Shogun the goal was to wipe out the other clans... you're right that a non-expansionist approach should be allowed to work well in Empire. But the static nature of the campaign map in Rome and Medieval 2 bored me to tears! Well, we'll see how things play out in Empire. I hope there's a happy balance.

[Queen Annes Revenge]

Man I love when the AI "snowballs". Else, when you conquer a bunch of factions and grow big and powerful, you become virtually unstoppable and crushing the remaining factions is too easy. If you have a rival sweeping the other parts of the world, it boils down to an epic, monumental, titanic clash for world supremacy! It keeps the game interesting as it progresses. I dislike rolling over weaker factions once I become powerful.