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Thread: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

  1. #1
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Well, this is another one for the 'Wizards of Mod' - I so love the sapping (nothing more satisfying then the desperate cries of enemy soldiers plummeting to their deaths) that I went hunting for the remnants of this magnificent siege tool.
    After some diligent exercises I found the following in M2TW:

    data\descr_engine_skeleton.txt
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    type sap_point

    anim idle data/animations/engine/sap/mining_tunnel_idle.CAS
    anim dying data/animations/engine/sap/mining_tunnel_dying.CAS -evt:data/animations/engine/sap/mining_tunnel_dying.evt


    data\descr_engines.txt

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    ;type sap_point
    ;culture all
    ;class sap_point
    ;pathfinding_data none
    ;
    ;engine_model_group normal, dying
    ;engine_skeleton sap_point
    ;engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/mining_tunnel_lowest.CAS
    ;
    ;engine_model_group dead
    ;engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/mining_tunnel_dead_lowest.CAS, max
    ;
    ;engine_shadow none
    ;
    ;engine_radius 5
    ;engine_visual_radius 5
    ;engine_length 10
    ;engine_width 6
    ;engine_height 3.0
    ;engine_mass 25
    ;engine_dock_dist 80
    ;engine_mob_dist 15
    ;engine_flammable true
    ;engine_ignition 1.0
    ;fire_effect engine_fire_medium_set
    ;
    ;engine_spo physical_obstacle physical_obstacle
    ;
    ;engine_push_point dummy -1 -9
    ;engine_push_point dummy -1 -4
    ;engine_push_point dummy 1 -9
    ;engine_push_point dummy 1 -4
    ;engine_push_point dummy 0 -2
    ;
    ;engine_health 20
    ;
    ;attack_stat 10, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_simple, blunt
    ;attack_stat_attr no


    data\ui\shared.db.xml (reference to sharedpage_01.tga)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    <sprite index="57" name="BUILD_LADDERS" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="58" name="BUILD_TOWERS" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="59" name="BUILD_RAMS" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="60" name="BUILD_SAPPING" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="61" name="LADDER_BUILT" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="62" name="TOWER_BUILT" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="63" name="RAM_BUILT" page="0" blablabla...
    <sprite index="64" name="SAPPING_BUILT" page="0" blablabla...

    Several references like this example (referenced to FE_texture4.tga) can be found in the RTW data\menu\rome.lnt file, but not in M2TW.lnt.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    </region>
    <region>siege_equip_sapping
    <left>310</left>
    <top>305</top>
    <right>339</right>
    <bottom>334</bottom>



    Summary:
    1. 'uncommenting' the entries in data\descr_engines.txt did not have any effect.
    2. All the files referenced in the two engine files exist
    3. No entry that I could find in data\menu\M2TW.lnt that points to sapping.
    4. The shiny new big graphic for sapping (anyone for a shovel?) and the old small one are in the same spot of sharedpage_01.tga as in RomeTW

    Question:
    1. Can sapping be put back into the game by amending the data\menu\m2tw.lnt file?




  2. #2

    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    I'm unsure if adding this information to the m2tw.lnt will help (you could try it and see if it works). While I haven't tried modding settlements in RTW and M2TW they seem to be radically different from each other, so you may need to edit the M2TW settlement files to bring back sapping (hopefully elephants will be able to destroy wooden walls as well).

    You might want to check out this the World Modified thread, as some modders are trying to edit settlments. So they may be able to add sap points.

    Also the descr_wall.txt file affects other siege equipment, such as siege towers and ladders, so it may also affect whether you can sap or not.
    Morning Sun (adds Korea and China to the Shogun 2 map)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...28-Morning-Sun

    Expanded Japan mod (97 new regions and 101 new factions)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ew-factions%29

    How to split a region in TWS2
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...split-a-region

    Eras Total Conquest 2.3 (12 campaigns from 970-1547)

  3. #3
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    I will check the wall file, and try my luck with the lnt file as well.




  4. #4
    Opifex
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Yes check descr_wall.txt, and then go ahead and try adding sapping to mtw2.lnt. I suspect what the latter does is add the ability for building sap points during siege, i.e. the actual 'sap' icon next to ladders and siege-towers.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
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  5. #5
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    I tried all entries, but for the love of me I can't figure out how to get the icon from sharedpage_01 to appear on the 'Siege Detail' pop up window.

    Guess I will give it a miss.




  6. #6

    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    I compared the Rome and Medieval descr_engines.txt and found the Medieval file lacks the engine_model lines found in the Rome file.
    Code:
    engine_model  data/models_engine/mining_tunnel_high.CAS, 20.0
    engine_model  data/models_engine/mining_tunnel_med.CAS, 40.0
    engine_model  data/models_engine/mining_tunnel_low.CAS, 80.0
    engine_model  data/models_engine/mining_tunnel_lowest.CAS, max
    Putting these lines in place as well as the corrosponding .CAS files they reference, I gave it a test run. No sap points were available in Custom or Campaign sieges. Then I checked the log and found this.
    Code:
    Script Error in mods/expanded_americas/data/descr_engines.txt, at line 1773, column 22
    Unrecognised engine class sap_point.
    The models_engine folder seems to be largely un-used in Med2, siege engines are referenced to the siege_engine folder by the term engine_mesh as opposed to engine_model in Rome.
    But with the sap_point showing as an 'unrecognised engine class' in the error log, the problem of models seems largely irrelevant.

  7. #7
    Opifex
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Check if there's some sort of an 'enum' or list of all the available siege engines, and add sap_point to it.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  8. #8
    Opifex
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Did you remember to add "can_sap" to the unit with which you attack the city? It's in EDU.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  9. #9

    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Yes, I added can_sap to a few units and made the change in descr_sm_factions. I think class would be defined in descr_engine_skeleton, where there is already an entry for sap_point and the anims for this entry are in the unpacked anims/engine folder.

    I guess it comes down to adding sapping to the mtw2.lnt, like it is in Rome, not something I can try myself...
    And getting the game to recognise the class...
    Last edited by Eothese; March 05, 2009 at 07:24 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    I've tried this a while back. It seems that sapping is impossible to add in. Recognizing the class is hardcoded. The mtw2.lnt only controls the menu and nothing else. It was what allowed you to choose sap points in custom battles in RTW.

    Coder on Dark Ages: Roman Revival, the alternate history mod for BI.

    Under the Patronage of Augustus Lucifer, member of the House of Ward.

  11. #11
    bitterhowl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Sorry for necro. But went to descr_engine to heal my trebuchet trouble (some animation bug as I revealed) and find commented lines for sap_point. Went to .exe and find sap_point and sapper entries there. So maybe it's still possible to use it here?

    enter_sap_point entry is just near animal_attack entry, and we all know that wardogs are functional (you may look at my video in Westeros KoRaH thread).
    Last edited by bitterhowl; November 29, 2021 at 08:22 PM.

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

    Because AI is dumb and full of errors.

  12. #12
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    The issue is that you can't get it to appear in the siege engine list when you attack\besiege a settlement, like rams and siege towers.




  13. #13
    bitterhowl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Even with memory editing apps like M2TW EOP?

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

    Because AI is dumb and full of errors.

  14. #14
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: (How) can we get the sapping points back?

    Memory editing edits existing stuff, it does not create new items afaik. You could ask in their forum.




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