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    Default Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

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    EU chiefs attempt to cool bloc's crisis

    The leaders of the European Union gathered Sunday in Brussels for an emergency summit meeting designed to tamp down the centrifugal forces unleashed by the global economic crisis that threaten to spin the bloc - and its single currency - apart.

    In a statement afterward, the leaders tried to reassure their publics, promising to hold to the single market, promote growth and reject protectionism.

    A call from Hungary for a large bailout for newer, eastern members of the union was rejected by Germany, the richest EU nation, and received little support from other countries.

    Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany of Hungary warned of "a new Iron Curtain" dividing Europe, even if the metal today was gold. He called for a special EU fund of up to €190 billion, or $241 billion, to protect the bloc's weakest members.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, however, facing European elections this summer and national elections in September, said that countries must be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but without explaining how. The Czech prime minister, Mirek Topolanek, meanwhile, insisted that no member would be left "in the lurch."

    Europe may now be "whole and free" after the collapse of communism. But the European Union is not a country, and the deep global contraction is stimulating nationalism, not consensus.

    With uncertain leadership and few powerful collective institutions, the union is struggling with the strains this economic crisis has inevitably produced among 27 different countries with different economic histories. The traditional concept of "solidarity," of one for all, is being undermined by protectionist pressures from political leaders with national constituencies and agendas.

    It is a sharp contrast with the meltdown's effects on the U.S. government. President Barack Obama has just announced a radical budget that will send the United States more deeply into debt, but that also makes an effort to redistribute income and lay the foundations for significant changes in health care, education and the environment.

    Whether Europe can reach across constituencies to create consensus has been an open, and suddenly urgent, question.

    "The European Union will now have to prove whether it is just a fair-weather union or has a real joint political destiny," said Stefan Kornelius, the foreign news editor of Süddeutsche Zeitung in Germany. "The whole project of a joint currency is being tested for the first time. We always said you can't really have a currency union without a political union, and we don't have one. There is no joint fiscal policy, no joint tax policy, no joint policy on which industries to subsidize or not. And none of the leaders is strong enough to pull the others out of the mud."

    Karel Lanoo, chief executive of the centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels, said that "the lack of leadership in Europe is becoming dramatic," while Thomas Klau, Paris director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, said: "This crisis affects the political union that backs the euro and of course the EU as a whole, and solidarity is at the heart of the debate."

    The crisis has implications for Washington, too, which wants a European Union that can promote allied interests in places like Afghanistan and the Middle East with financial and, increasingly, military help. "All of that is in doubt if the cornerstone of the EU - its internal market, economic union and solidarity - is in question," said Ronald Asmus, a former State Department official who runs the Brussels office of the German Marshall Fund.

    The problems are basically twofold, one within the euro zone, which itself has an economy roughly the size of the United States, and one within the larger European Union. The 16 nations that use the euro - introduced in 1999 and one of the most significant political accomplishments of the last decade - are trying to keep the severe economic troubles of some members, like Ireland, Spain, Italy and Greece, from turning into national defaults that could force them to abandon the currency.

    While Germany vowed never to bail out weaker members in return for giving up its strong national currency, the Deutsche mark, German leaders, with elections on the horizon, are now faced with the unpalatable prospect of having to do precisely that: put German money at risk to bail out weaker, less responsible partners.

    Within the larger European Union, fissures are growing between older members and newer ones, especially those that lived under the stifling yoke of Soviet socialism only 20 years ago. Some countries of Central Europe, like the Czech Republic and Poland, are doing relatively well. Others, like Hungary, Romania and the Baltic states, are in a state of near-meltdown. But only two newer members - tiny Slovenia and Slovakia - are protected by being inside the euro zone, and there was little support Sunday for changing the rules to allow more to join quickly.

    The other new members - even those doing relatively well, and whose banks did not engage in the subprime mortgage frenzy or indulge in toxic derivatives - have seen their currencies plummet against the euro, causing enormous problems of debt repayment, while the recession in their partners to the west has meant a radical drop in orders for the factories set up in the lower-cost eastern countries to satisfy consumers to the west.

    Some countries are asking for aid, both from their partners and in some cases from the International Monetary Fund, to prop up their currencies and banks. While Western European countries are reluctant, with their own problems at home and within the euro zone itself, there is a deep interconnectedness in any case. Much of the debt at risk in Eastern Europe is on the books of euro zone banks - especially in Austria and Italy. The same is true for the mess farther afield, in Ukraine, which talks of joining the union.

    Having watched the Soviet model fail, the countries of Central and Eastern Europe embraced the liberal, capitalist model as the price of integration with the west. Now that model, too, seems to be faltering, and the newer members feel adrift. Before the larger summit meeting Sunday, the Poles called an unprecedented meeting of nine of the new member states.

    Afterward, Topolanek, who has been bickering with an impatient France, said: "We do not want any dividing lines, we do not want a Europe divided along a north-south or east-west line, pursuing a beggar-thy-neighbor policy."

    The Hungarian government circulated a paper Sunday suggesting that the refinancing needs of Central Europe needs this year - including the nonmembers Croatia and Ukraine - could total $380 billion. "Failure to act," the paper said, "could cause a second round of systemic meltdowns that would mainly hit the euro zone economies."

    Merkel, however, put her foot down against an undifferentiated package, though she suggested last week that targeted help to specific countries might be on offer, mentioning Ireland.

    EU governments have already spent $380 billion in bank recapitalizations and put up $3.17 trillion to guarantee loans of banks and to try to get credit moving again.

    The European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, the European Investment Bank and the World Bank said Friday they would jointly provide $31.1 billion to support East European nations, but more will be needed.

    Klau of the European Council on Foreign Relations sees a worrying loss of faith in a certain brand of capitalism. "It's politically dangerous there since they've just emerged from an ultra-regulated and stifling system, were confronted with shock therapy that created great hardship, and are just beginning to recover and stabilize," Klau said. "Now they're thrown back into an economic and political cauldron."

    And they are finding that their European partners are putting their own national interests ahead of "collective and necessary solidarity," Klau said.

    Charles Grant, director of the centre for European Reform, is more sanguine. "My expectation is that the euro zone countries, out of pure self interest, will bail each other out," he said. "For Central and Eastern Europe, it is too early to say there won't be solidarity. But non-EU countries in the east, particularly Ukraine, seem to be the No. 1 worry."

  2. #2
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Like I said, globalization's a .

    GL on pulling through, EU. We'll let you know how we do.
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Hopefully the EU dies. Or at least, is reformed drastically.

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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrus
    Like I said, globalization's a .

    GL on pulling through, EU. We'll let you know how we do.
    Just a confirmation of how things are pretty much everywhere really.

    For better or worse, distance and different financial systems are virtually irrelevant to economic crises of this magnitude.

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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar Face View Post
    Hopefully the EU dies. Or at least, is reformed drastically.
    why do u even care in far away insignificant canada?
    are you wishing the best for the european countries? are you worried about our well beeing?

    i am german and i am not sure if the eu benefits us as much as we benefit from it. i would have been cool with open borders and a common currency as well and optimised trade within europe but not more. in the end everybody fights for himself anyways. some more hidden and clever, some more open

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    excellent
    anything and everything that can be done to weaken the EU must and should be done
    another sentiment i dont understand. are u scared that a new power emerges and changes the world? or why do u want a far away union to fail for no apparent reason?

    i definately didnt like the usa of the past 8 years but i d never have said s th like i want them to fail and go down - and if its only out of selfishness knowing that a healthy usa is as good for germany (economywise) as a healthy germany/eu is for usa
    Last edited by Ahlerich; March 03, 2009 at 07:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post

    another sentiment i dont understand. are u scared that a new power emerges and changes the world? or why do u want a far away union to fail for no apparent reason?
    good question,
    i believe the EU should be but a trade bloc, NOTHING MORE
    all they should be concerning themselves with are prices of cabbages in hungary and whores in romania, NOT big boy matters like throwing their weight around in the world

    plus it's so charming to see the EU weak and all, bikering and fighting

    the EU serves French and German interests, mostly french interests actually
    when has it served the interests of insignificant little countries in the EU?

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    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post
    why do u even care in far away insignificant canada?
    Why does anyone care about anything that happens outside of their own country? Their own province?

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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    excellent
    anything and everything that can be done to weaken the EU must and should be done

  9. #9

    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Saying it threatens to break the fabric of the EU is hopelessly melodramatic.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    I am currently playing the worlds smallest violin for the EU
    Know where you're going in life . . . you may already be there!

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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Well, as far as I can see living in Romania myself, there's no real sign of meltdown here yet. The worst economic period was 1996 - 1999 and we're nowhere near that.

    The local currency lost 15% against the Euro. That combined with the fact the labor costs are still the second lowest in the EU might help exporters even if the demand shrinks in the Western part of the EU. Being the 7th largest EU members in terms of population also helps because the internal market (the cheapest to serve by the local manufacturers) is large enough. Add to that the country is a net food exporter and more than 60% of the energy needs can be covered by the local oil and natural gas resources.

    So I'm not quite sure why the author of the article has put Romania on the same list with Hungary (which keeps being in trouble since 5 years now) and the Baltic States (which are so tiny and poor in resources that they are too dependent on the foreign partners).
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    perhaps this is related to that massive amount of $$ that went running from EU banks a while back....

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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    in the end its countries like germany and france that throw the most money at weaker members. who benefits here the most is obvious. i wish i would feel like germany benefits most. however all i see is that germany pays most. i have to admit though that i try to be informed but dont have in depth knowledge about the eu - its a jungle to me.

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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Of course you have to ask yourself a question who wants to see EU weak? Who will benefits like Lenin said

    And the answer is russia, USA and brittish snobs lords bloody cook suckers hahah
    I'M POLISH, I'M PROUD!

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    antares24's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar Face View Post
    Hopefully the EU dies. Or at least, is reformed drastically.
    The EU death won't happen (and why you would like it? It would be a major economic blow for the richest part of the world, meaning that in our interconnected world economy everyone would suffer).

    As for the the reform, that would happen, hopefully in a short time we will have the Lisbon treaty in effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Saying it threatens to break the fabric of the EU is hopelessly melodramatic.
    quite true.

    It is really easy now for some eastern states to cry for help and money (after all the aid they're receiveing) from the western ones, guess what we're all in economic troubles now.

    A lot of their problems today come from the bad way some eastern Eu governments managed the economy in those good years, i mean Hungary external debt rised from 50% of gdp in 2001 to 106% in 2008, WTF now they have the courage to ask for help?

    If some state has a real economic nosedive the EU will help it, but for now they should manage to survive on their own.
    Other than that, Almunia (economic affairs EU commissar) has already said that if some Eurozone country has troubles or is insolvent the EU already has a plan to intervene and help it, that is all that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dromikaites View Post
    Well, as far as I can see living in Romania myself, there's no real sign of meltdown here yet. The worst economic period was 1996 - 1999 and we're nowhere near that.

    The local currency lost 15% against the Euro. That combined with the fact the labor costs are still the second lowest in the EU might help exporters even if the demand shrinks in the Western part of the EU. Being the 7th largest EU members in terms of population also helps because the internal market (the cheapest to serve by the local manufacturers) is large enough. Add to that the country is a net food exporter and more than 60% of the energy needs can be covered by the local oil and natural gas resources.

    So I'm not quite sure why the author of the article has put Romania on the same list with Hungary (which keeps being in trouble since 5 years now) and the Baltic States (which are so tiny and poor in resources that they are too dependent on the foreign partners).
    mmm the problem for eastern Europe in general is that demand in the western Eu is low now, so even if exports are cheaper they don't rise, not to mention all the investments that are either put on hold or cancelled.
    This recent banks crisis in eastern Eu too will scare a lot investors, i already read that many are escaping the region, some economist are talking of a case similar to the asian financial crisis of 10 years ago for eastern Eu today.
    We'll see.
    Last edited by antares24; March 03, 2009 at 08:41 AM.
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    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    who sucked the cook?

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    Phalanx300's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    I hope the EU breaks down, right now it just wants to take our independance away. No way that Brussels is going to decide what happens and what doesn't happen in my own country!

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    Default Re: Warnings in Brussels as economic crisis threatens to break fabric of the EU

    Europeans just assumed that Eastern Europe's economies would converge with the Western Europeans. The missing piece was a mechanism for such a convergance. It is neither automatic nor predestined. The real problems created by making the assumptions of convergence are not trivial. People have borrowed in Euros and will need to pay back those loans in Euros even though their own capacity to pay will be driven by, say, the Hungarian national economy which is not Euro based. Tied to the Euro is not the same as Eastern Europeans being as productive as the Germans -- worker compensation will reflect this difference despite personal debts to be just like the Germans.

    To suggest that this is a threat to the EU is a stretch.

    The Eastern economies will need to loosen spending to cushion the fall as well as take actions on exchange rates rather continue to tie the exchange rates to the Euro. This is tricky, but not impossible.

    Convergence can still occur, but as the Baltic region has discovered -- people will migrate for opportunities today rather than wait for the opportunities to come to them.
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