Holocaust Denying

[Thanatos]

I've noticed a fair share of people up in high places who are anti-semetic, and they're all denying the Holocaust actually happened.

This got me a bit confused. If you hate the Jews, wouldn't you want to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened, so you can gloat over the dead? Or are they trying to deny the Holocaust happened, so as to pass the Jews off as a bunch of whiny people?

Could somebody elucidate this for me?

[Garbarsardar]

Holocaust deniers are under the impression that Jews have a prominent position in today's world. Amongst the many "Jewish conspiracies" that enabled those people to "control everything" was the instillation of massive guilt to humankind by use of the "Holocaust Myth".

On a second level there is always the "come on, Hitler was not that bad", argument.

The funny thing is that the reasons that actually led to the Holocaust are almost identical with the reasons for denying it.

[Scar Face]

Your second part is right. Anti Semites use holocaust denial as way to show the creation of Israel to be unjust, and to bring about a paranoid conspiracy about how 'the Jews' control the media, manipulate societies, etc. Most holocaust deniers have died out though, the majority have now been reformed into people who simply think the holocaust was over exaggerated. A lot.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Most holocaust deniers have died out though, the majority have now been reformed into people who simply think the holocaust was over exaggerated. A lot.

It's not so much that there's been any "dying out", it's just that as their audiences have become more educated and sophisticated they simply can't get away with wholesale denial any more. So they have fallen back on denying the extent of the murders and they always deny the existence of the gas chambers.

They do that because it was the industrialisation of mass murder that makes the Holocaust distinctively unique and chilling. Serbs, Russians, Hutus and others can fill a few mass graves with corpses using guns and machetes, but it was the creation of death factories by a "civilised" nation that marks this particular genocide. So they try to pretend that never happened.

Of course, the other reason they deny the gas chambers and crematoria systems is that this technology was what allowed the Nazis to kill so many people so quickly. They have to deny the existence of the technology in order to play down the numbers killed.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Your second part is right. Anti Semites use holocaust denial as way to show the creation of Israel to be unjust, and to bring about a paranoid conspiracy about how 'the Jews' control the media, manipulate societies, etc. Most holocaust deniers have died out though, the majority have now been reformed into people who simply think the holocaust was over exaggerated. A lot.

I believe it was exaggerated a bit, In the school books they only talk about the Jews getting killed, Not the millions of others that were victims at the same time, What about all the Gays, Blacks, Gypsies and Russians who were killed during the holocaust? Why don't we hear about them?

[boofhead]

What about all the Gays, Blacks, Gypsies and Russians who were killed during the holocaust? Why don't we hear about them?

We do. What about the Jehovah's Witnesses? It's not some Jewish conspiracy, many others remember those days and can testify in the flesh rather than on some conspiracy blog.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

We do. What about the Jehovah's Witnesses? It's not some Jewish conspiracy, many others remember those days and can testify in the flesh rather than on some conspiracy blog.

True it is not a conspiracy, It is just messed up that everyone talks about "The poor Jews" When more of other races were killed than Jews. And no I am not saying this in any Antisemitic way. I am just saying that only talking about the Jews is like saying that The poor "Insert Race Here" people in America are oppressed by the government and then saying that nobody else is..

[gojira]

Before I research stangl, i wanna spice up above argument a bit.

[The Holocaust] "is not simply one example of genocide but a nearly successful attempt on the life of God's chosen children and, thus, on God himself."

Abraham Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation League, writing in the ADL's Frontline, January 1994.


God´s chosen... blablabla, elevating one´s suffering above anyone else´s is not christian, is not jewish, but: satanic. IMO

Attempting the own (alleged) extermination to an attempted extermination of god is: not justifiable.


As a great Fan of Finkelstein and Chomsky (who made a GREAT stand for Faurisson, by defending his right for free speech as a revisionist), I wanna give this quote:

For Wiesel... the Holocaust is effectively a "mystery" religion. Thus Wiesel intones that the Holocaust "leads into darkness," "negates all answers," "lies outside, if not beyond, history," "defies both knowledge and description," "cannot be explained nor visualized," is "never to be comprehended or transmitted," marks a "destruction of history" and a "mutation on a cosmic scale." Only the survivor-priest (read: only Wiesel) is qualified to divine its mystery. And yet, the Holocaust's mystery, Wiesel avows, is "noncommunicable"; "we cannot even talk about it." Thus, for his standard fee of $25,000 (plus chauffeured limousine), Wiesel lectures that the "secret" of Auschwitz's "truth lies in silence."

(Finkelstein on Elie Wiesel.)

Screw Wiesel.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wiesel tells a story about a visit to a Rebbe, or Hasidic rabbi, he hadn't seen for 20 years. The Rebbe is upset to learn that Wiesel has become a writer, and wants to know what kind of material he writes. "Stories," Wiesel replies, "... true stories."

"About people you knew?" Yes, about people I might have known. "About things that happened?" Yes, about things that happened or could have happened. "But they did not?" No, not all of them did. In fact, some were invented from almost the beginning to almost the end. The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me up and said with more sorrow than anger: "That means you are writing lies!" I did not answer immediately. The scolded child within me had nothing to say in his defense. Yet, I had to justify myself:

"Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are, although they never occurred"





WTF!?

[Thanatos]

If the deniers truly believe that there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, or that they've already infiltrated everywhere...

So according to them, the Jews just do this as a guilt trip for..... what, extra sympathy? More money?

[Scar Face]

If the deniers truly believe that there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, or that they've already infiltrated everywhere...

So according to them, the Jews just do this as a guilt trip for..... what, extra sympathy? More money?

White holocaust deniers: Jews are lieing about the holocaust to bring about guilt, stifle criticism of their actions, and to gain legitimacy in calls against racism, so they can promote inter racial relations and multiculturalism- which will in turn weaken the white man, and allow Jews to control the weaker races without opposition.

Muslim holocaust deniers: Jews are lieing about the holocaust to further their expansionist goals.

[roy34543]

If the deniers truly believe that there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, or that they've already infiltrated everywhere...

So according to them, the Jews just do this as a guilt trip for..... what, extra sympathy? More money

Pretty much. It doesnt have to make sense to be a conspiracy theory.

[boofhead]

It's telling also how many of the holocaust deniers are also the ones who would compare the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to the holocaust.

[RomanSoldier9001]

It's telling also how many of the holocaust deniers are also the ones who would compare the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to the holocaust.

I dont deny the holocaust but I totaly comparer the Israel-Palestian conflit(more as the Israel extermanation of Palestians) to the holocaust is very easy to see that they are so many things that are the same.As for the jews I do not think that they control the world and have all those conspiracies but I see that jews have a great power especealy in USA they are not the lords of USA but they influnce a lot with their lobbys etc like all lobbys jews also influnce with their own I think theres is not people in world that could got away with what jews did with Israel.

[Orko]

I dont deny the holocaust but I totaly comparer the Israel-Palestian conflit(more as the Israel extermanation of Palestians) to the holocaust is very easy to see that they are so many things that are the same.As for the jews I do not think that they control the world and have all those conspiracies but I see that jews have a great power especealy in USA they are not the lords of USA but they influnce a lot with their lobbys etc like all lobbys jews also influnce with their own I think theres is not people in world that could got away with what jews did with Israel.

how is it the same? do the evil jooz that control the media and show the only thing good for Israel hide all the evidence?
Please. Palestinians must be the only people being genocided AND reproducing faster than their murderer.

Exacly inded Humans like to kill themselfs." As long there man there will be always wars" Albert Einstein. ONe thing that realy me angers me is the separtaion that people make betwen zionists and nazis for me there are the same the same radicals views the same racial views the only difference is the zionists are smarters and use lobby groups to influence people to see their radical view.

Wait, do you actually know what the word zionist means or do you just watch al-Jazeera and decide it's bad?

[Heathen Hammer]

how is it the same? do the evil jooz that control the media and show the only thing good for Israel hide all the evidence?

I'm not talking about Jews, I'm talking about zionists. There are many Jews that oppose zionism.
The difference between zionism and nazism is that nazis had much more power than zionists today. But both ideologies are equally bad.

[Keravnos]

Ok. Some quick facts time...

Like I posted earlier,
Zionism =re-founding and supporting Israel
Naziism =WW2, 70.000.000 dead in it and hatred for anyone not Aryan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Having said that, I want to ask you one thing: If you can answer me, please do.

Is it true that there is an alarming increase of Neo nazis in Russia? If so, how would you explain that, especially when USSR (of which Russia was the greatest component) lost 13.71% of its 1939 population by the Nazi?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ww2_casualties

10,700,000 soldiers

11,400,000 civilians

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazis

The post-Soviet era has seen the rise of a variety of extreme nationalist movements in Russia, some of which are openly neo-fascist or neo-Nazi. Neo-Nazi groups in Russia are characterized by racism, anti-Semitism and extreme xenophobia towards non-Russians.
Russian neo-Nazi organizations have generally defined themselves as standing outside of the political process, disdaining the electoral system and advocating the overthrow of the government by force. Their ideology has centered on defending Russian national identity against what they perceive as a takeover by minority groups such as Jews, Caucasian (whether Orthodox or Muslim) and Central Asian immigrants as well as Muslim Russians. Dark skinned Russians are often subject to racial abuse, regardless of religious affliation. Cleansing the nation by killing or expelling Jews and also dark- skinned immigrants from other parts of the country as well as former countries of the USSR has been a generally accepted goal for Russian neo-Nazis. Their ideology became epitomized in the slogan "Russia for the Russians", a catchphrase also adopted by less extreme factions. Russian neo-Nazis have generally not outlined discernible economic programs. They have openly admired and imitated the German Nazis and Adolf Hitler, and Hitler's book Mein Kampf stood high on their reading list. The most prominent organization, Russian National Union, led by Aleksandr Barkashov, adopted a three-ray Swastika as its emblem (the German Nazi swastika can be thought of consisting of two rays; the Z shaped segments).
Social roots
The collapse of the Soviet economic system in the early 1990s caused great economic and social problems, including widespread unemployment and poverty. Several far right paramilitary organizations were able to tap into popular discontent, particularly among the marginalized, lesser educated, and habitually unemployed youth. Of the three major age groups – youths, adults, and the elderly – youths may have been hit the hardest. The elderly suffered due to inadequate (or unpaid) pensions, but they found effective political representation in the Communists, and generally had their concerns addressed through better budget allocations. Adults, although often suffering financially and psychologically due to job losses, were generally able to find new sources of income. Moreover, Soviet-era indoctrination into the ideals of egalitarianism predisposed most adults against the message of right-wing extremists. Younger Russians were much less likely to have such inclinations.
Activities
Russian neo-Nazis have made it an explicit goal to take over the country by force, and have put serious effort into preparing for this. Paramilitary organizations operating under the guise of sports clubs have trained their members in squad tactics and weapons handling. They have stockpiled and used weapons, often illegally. Reputedly, many were interested in martial arts and unarmed combat, and have organized realistic hand to hand combat classes. Russian radical nationalists (especially national-bolsheviks) most notable action so far was their participation in the armed defense of the Supreme Soviet building against government forces during the standoff between Boris Yeltsin and the Communist-dominated parliament in 1993.[51]
On August 15, 2007, Russian authorities arrested a student for allegedly posting a video on the Internet which appears to show two Muslim, migrant workers being beheaded in front of a red and black Swastika flag.[52] Alexander Verkhovsky, the head of a Moscow-based center that monitors hate crime in Russia, said, "It looks like this is the real thing. The killing is genuine...There are similar videos from the Chechen war. But this is the first time the killing appears to have been done intentionally."[53] A Russian neo-Nazi group called the Russian National Socialist Party claimed responsibility for the murders.

If I were Russian I would be ashamed beyond belief if there were Neo nazis in my country. It would feel like desecration of the sacrifice of 10,700,000 soldiers and 11,400,000 civilians who died for their motherland.

If a soldier from those who raised the soviet flag over the Reichstag is alive today, and many are, how do you think they would feel?

[jankren]

The holocaust did happen. But for what they are doing in Palestine its hard for me to feel sympathy.

[roy34543]

The holocaust did happen. But for what they are doing in Palestine its hard for me to feel sympathy

Isnt that somewhat of an anti-empathy twist directed towards the wrong thing? I mean sympathy and support are very different, and i find it difficult to understand how someone could not feel at least somewhat sympathetic (or at the very least pretend to) for 6 million people dieing horrile deaths.

[jankren]

Isnt that somewhat of an anti-empathy twist directed towards the wrong thing? I mean sympathy and support are very different, and i find it difficult to understand how someone could not feel at least somewhat sympathetic (or at the very least pretend to) for 6 million people dieing horrile deaths.

Actually you are right. I do feel bad for holocaust victims and my gigantic hatred for Israel shouldnt affect that. However, I also believe some Jews need to stop using the holocaust as a tool to garner political support for Israel because the so called 'Holocaust Industry' is a great disservice to the millions of holocaust victims.

I do not see what is a big deal about it, China lost 16.5million civilians and Soviet Union 12m and even Indonesia lost 4million but you don't hear them constantly crying about it.

It is a fact that Jews used holocaust to further their goals.

As many Slavic Pols died as Jewish, yet western media and history hardly acknowledges terrible price that Slavs paid during 2nd world war and always concentrates on Holocaust.

I am fully pro Israeli... keeps them out of Europe.

Lol, you are funny man.

[Scar Face]

If were going to be honest with ourselves and our society, it's hard for anyone to find sympathy. Were disconnected and desensitized.