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  1. #1
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    The Russians are 'Pushing' Again

    Russian manipulation has led to the government of the central Asian republic of Kyrgyzstan telling the United States that it must cease using its Manas air base. The base is of major importance to U.S. operations and support of the conflict in Afghanistan.

    Until 1991, Kyrgyzstan had been a part of the Soviet Union. And, like Afghanistan, it is a land-locked state.

    Large-scale U.S. military operations in Afghanistan began shortly after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States. Because no countries in the region -- including Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, which the United States had defended in 1991 -- would permit U.S. forces to fly combat missions from their airfields, initial U.S. air support came from aircraft carriers operating in the Persian Gulf. These included the carrier Kitty Hawk (CV 63) serving as an afloat base for special forces and their helicopters. Other flights to Afghanistan had to fly lengthy routes, with overflight permission need from several countries.

    Thus the Kyrgyzstan base of Manas has been of great importance. About 500 tons of material and 15,000 U.S. troops move through the base every month. The United States has been paying the country just over $17 million per year for use of the facility.

    Talks between the U.S. and Kyrgyzstan governments are continuing as this is written, but the point has been made: The president of Kyrgyzstan announced the end of American use of the base at a joint press conference with Russian President Dmitri A. Medvedev. This was another demonstration of the "new" Russia being a major player in world events.

    Other recent examples of this attitude include the Russian invasion of Georgia last year, the difficult negotiations over energy pipelines to Europe through the Ukraine, the recent visit of a naval task force -- including a nuclear-propelled cruiser -- to Venezuela to boost the prestige of U.S. antagonist Hugo Chavez, the operation of a Soviet carrier task force in the Mediterranean, planted rumors that Russia is seeking to reestablish a naval base in Syria, and the periodic long-range flights toward NATO countries by Russian bombers.

    These activities are not meant to provoke a conflict -- but perhaps crises. The "new" Russia is in no condition for a conflict beyond border incursions into neighboring countries (as the Georgia episode). But while the slow and expensive attempts to rebuild the country to be a significant military force, the political-military activities enumerated above will, in Russian eyes, contribute to the country again having a major role in world affairs.

    Another factor, in the words of Baktybek Abdrisaev, who served as Kyrgyzstan's ambassador to the United States from 1996 to 2005, "all has not proceeded as we had hoped." Writing in The Washington Post on 20 February, he continued: "For one thing, economic arrangements relating to the base have always been obscure, and the employment and support relationships that many expected have not been realized. A couple of very troubling incidents, including the shooting death of a Kyrgyz man in 2006, have left many in Kyrgyzstan concerned about the candor of American officials and the attitude with which they approached their Central Asian partners."

    But the bottom line: Russia will benefit, that government at the same time having said that it will assist in U.S.-NATO efforts in Afghanistan, including the logistics transit issues.
    http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004711.html

    ----------------

    So much for Russia's ongoing cooperation in the war on terror eh. So much for Russia's change in attitude with Obama's move to the oval office.

    It would appear that this is a major problem lurking on the horizon for the Americans (and thus, ultimately the coalition in Afghanistan as a whole). all i can ask is.. "what's the point of this Russia?"

  2. #2
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Putin is a crazy bastard.

  3. #3
    Trey's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    If they succeed in making things more difficult in Afghanistan, to a point where the coalition withdraws without its goals complete, in Russia's eyes they lose credibility. Good God, I thought this ended 20 years ago. I wish Russia would just give it up and accept it's past its prime.
    for-profit death machine.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey View Post
    If they succeed in making things more difficult in Afghanistan, to a point where the coalition withdraws without its goals complete, in Russia's eyes they lose credibility. Good God, I thought this ended 20 years ago. I wish Russia would just give it up and accept it's past its prime.
    If its past its prime why are you so concerned then? Besides U.S does everything in its power to support things like Georgia, defense missiles in Poland and a potential NATO Ukraine, so I don't really get the issue here (Carach, those three could also use the term "what's the point of this U.S.A?"). Both countries are doing the same thing to each other, except that the U.S is a much bigger player and threat to Russia.

    On the side note it could also easily be an issue of Kyrgyzstan not getting everything it wants out of this base arrangement. From the highlighted part below I assume they are referring to money, specifically the $17 million per year.

    "For one thing, economic arrangements relating to the base have always been obscure, and the employment and support relationships that many expected have not been realized."

    As mentioned in the article, talks still continue, so I wouldn't be surprised seeing the base continue operations if more money was to be thrown at them.

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    Trey's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by BoJaN View Post
    If its past its prime why are you so concerned then? Besides U.S does everything in its power to support things like Georgia, defense missiles in Poland and a potential NATO Ukraine, so I don't really get the issue here (Carach, those three could also use the term "what's the point of this U.S.A?"). Both countries are doing the same thing to each other, except that the U.S is a much bigger player and threat to Russia.

    On the side note it could also easily be an issue of Kyrgyzstan not getting everything it wants out of this base arrangement. From the highlighted part below I assume they are referring to money, specifically the $17 million per year.

    "For one thing, economic arrangements relating to the base have always been obscure, and the employment and support relationships that many expected have not been realized."

    As mentioned in the article, talks still continue, so I wouldn't be surprised seeing the base continue operations if more money was to be thrown at them.
    Just because it's past its prime doesn't mean it can't cause problems. I never mentioned anything about Georgia, either.
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    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004711.html

    ----------------

    So much for Russia's ongoing cooperation in the war on terror eh. So much for Russia's change in attitude with Obama's move to the oval office.

    It would appear that this is a major problem lurking on the horizon for the Americans (and thus, ultimately the coalition in Afghanistan as a whole). all i can ask is.. "what's the point of this Russia?"
    So are you saying we should invade the commy bastards now or later?
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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
    So are you saying we should invade the commy bastards now or later?
    no need for invasions, just need to start 'pushing back'.

    as mentioned; by throwing some money at the guys threatening to shut the place down. but personally id go further and look elsewhere in the world for something that may hurt russian pride (IE eastern europe) and start sticking the knife in there.

    such is International politics - people mostly come at u sideways and with smiles (to quote goodfellas)
    Last edited by Carach; March 01, 2009 at 08:11 PM.

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    Grof's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar Face View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that both Russia and the United states do idiotic and offensive things to each other, and others, in foreign relations...
    you took a huge risk on that one

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    no need for invasions, just need to start 'pushing back'.

    as mentioned; by throwing some money at the guys threatening to shut the place down. but personally id go further and look elsewhere in the world for something that may hurt russian pride (IE eastern europe) and start sticking the knife in there.

    such is International politics - people mostly come at u sideways and with smiles (to quote goodfellas)
    right because nothing bad happened the last time the US started supporting people who are trying to piss of the Russians.

    Христе Боже распети и свети, Српска земља кроз облаке лети. Лети преко небеских висина, Крила су јој Морава и Дрина.
    На три свето и на три саставно,Одлазимо на Косово равно.
    Кад је драга да одлазим чула,За ревер ми невен заденула.
    Збогом први нерођени сине, Збогом ружо, збогом рузмарине. Збогом лето, јесени и зимо. Одлазимо да их победимо.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    If somebody proKremlin can explain how useful is collapse in Afganistan for Russia, lemme know.

  10. #10
    Grof's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by corpse helvetica View Post
    If somebody proKremlin can explain how useful is collapse in Afganistan for Russia, lemme know.

    says who that Russia is for a collapse in Afghanistan?

    Христе Боже распети и свети, Српска земља кроз облаке лети. Лети преко небеских висина, Крила су јој Морава и Дрина.
    На три свето и на три саставно,Одлазимо на Косово равно.
    Кад је драга да одлазим чула,За ревер ми невен заденула.
    Збогом први нерођени сине, Збогом ружо, збогом рузмарине. Збогом лето, јесени и зимо. Одлазимо да их победимо.
    March 24, 1999 - June 11, 1999


  11. #11
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Grof View Post

    right because nothing bad happened the last time the US started supporting people who are trying to piss of the Russians.
    u appear to have a rather distorted view on the georgia issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grof View Post
    says who that Russia is for a collapse in Afghanistan?
    the piece of news in this very thread - it serves absolutely no purpose other than hampering US/Coalition efforts in afghanistan.

    so yea... most people would say that russia is for a collapse as a result - but then russians have never needed any real motive to do anything.
    Last edited by Carach; March 02, 2009 at 06:41 AM.

  12. #12
    Grof's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by corpse helvetica View Post
    even some Russian analysts ask what is the point to outbid the base in Kyrgyztan. Just to play dickwaving game? It should be clear that restricting NATO access to Afghanistan means bigger probability to ensuing chaos there.
    or removing a thread from its borders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    u appear to have a rather distorted view on the georgia issue
    my view on the Georgia war is fine, its you who's a Russophob.

    the piece of news in this very thread - it serves absolutely no purpose other than hampering US/Coalition efforts in afghanistan.

    so yea... most people would say that russia is for a collapse as a result - but then russians have never needed any real motive to do anything.
    or is Russia looking at its own interests and doesn't want a American base that close to its own borders.

    Христе Боже распети и свети, Српска земља кроз облаке лети. Лети преко небеских висина, Крила су јој Морава и Дрина.
    На три свето и на три саставно,Одлазимо на Косово равно.
    Кад је драга да одлазим чула,За ревер ми невен заденула.
    Збогом први нерођени сине, Збогом ружо, збогом рузмарине. Збогом лето, јесени и зимо. Одлазимо да их победимо.
    March 24, 1999 - June 11, 1999


  13. #13

    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Kyrgyzstan needs to be back the Russian sphere of influence ASAP. They just can't govern themselves properly.

    And I found the phrase "Central Asian partners" absolutely hilarious. Kygyzs just want to suck money from someone's coffers - they don't discriminate. Russians, Americans, Turks.... it's all the same. Just Russians are offering a better deal for the moment.

  14. #14
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Geopolitics is not a zero-sum game.




  15. #15
    Senator
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Can't really do anything with out russia getting involved...

    Russia needs to back off! They know what they are getting into if they piss us off.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadratus View Post
    Can't really do anything with out russia getting involved...

    Russia needs to back off! They know what they are getting into if they piss us off.
    Or what? You didn't do anything to help Sakashvili, but you're going to do something over a base in Kyrgyzstan?

  17. #17
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Kyrgyzstan is a sovereign nation with an independent foreign policy.

    Edit:lol jk
    Last edited by Heinz Guderian; March 01, 2009 at 05:02 PM. Reason: cos i was just :wub:ing around




  18. #18

    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Kyrgyzstan is a sovereign nation with an independent foreign policy.
    Unfortunately, that's true.

  19. #19
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Kyrgyzstan is a sovereign nation with an independent foreign policy.

    Edit:lol jk
    So was Georgia!
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  20. #20
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Another potential twist for afghanistan - includes russians

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadratus View Post
    Can't really do anything with out russia getting involved...

    Russia needs to back off! They know what they are getting into if they piss us off.
    and, pray tell, just what are we going to do?

    US:"hey russia, um, could you stop?"
    Russia: "no"
    US: "damn"
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