suply traits, how to remove them without reinstaling

[Smikis]

topic is obvious..

apart that.. i think whole idea is flawed at least the version of mini addon which comes with ss 6.1

the idea is maybe good.. but the fact that there is no resupply in that version, and instead of actually able to siege.. ur not starving out army in keep.. you starve yourself out.. getting run over, sometimes is good challenge.. to see whole your army obliterated.. 2 mins after first cavalry charged my side.. and whole army collapsed like domino running in fear..

sieging and getting ass kicked in siege.. cuz army sides in both are around same.. and you cant start them out before you starve out.. leaves one choice.. come with 2x army.. which is whole good idea.. but if i get to the point where i put few armies into one place. i dont feel like i should waste 3-5 turns after my first castle taken.. just so i can continue.. not to mention
if i felt like taking trip around the world to invide some foreign place.. you can only imagine ill get raped.. in the end

not to mention, when i see my 8 turn limit is going out.. and trying to move back.. you get interlocked with friendly/neutral armies.. geez i been locked with venetian armies ( my allies ) in same region maybe for 5 turns in row. moving for 1 yard a day..
then you get whooping 5 traits ( permament ones ) on your hero.. how much he suxs.. and all the stuff

so ye anyone feels like telling me how i can get rid of it.. or pointing to new version.. if its vastly improved..

[Resurrection]

My usual routine how to remove it is:

In export_character_traits.txt
- find section starting Byg's... and delete it.
- find section startin Byg's triggers... and delete it.

In descr_strat.txt
- find first character and copy into clipboard his first two traits (something like "supply 1 turnsaway 12" and then use find and replace feature with blank outcome.

In my opinion, this system is flawed structurally and no imporvement could possibly help this. Whole concept would need to change, but this is not the place to discuss it imho.

[caralampio]

After being one who always automatically eliminated Byg's supply in my game, I have come to accept it, if only because it seems to have become standard in all newer versions of SS and picking it out each time is a hassle. Also, I do some modding myself and if I present a submod to the forum I have to reinsert Byg because many people ask for it. You get used to it, and it does have some interesting aspects.

One way to do sieges is by having two generals working in relays. When one of the generals is out of supply, with troops weary etc. swap him with the other fresh one. Voilá! The whole army is fresh and resupplied. Because you see, is it not the army that is unsupplied, it is only the general... And not necessarily consider this an exploit, you can view it as a reinforcement bringing in supplies, replacements and a new perspective to the battlefield.

I think the rationale behind this submod (and others like Pnut's disease system, which is also present in SS) is to make you assault cities instead of sieging them out. Like, they want to force you to "have fun"... their way. I don't think this is nice, each has his way of skinning a cat, and long sieges was one historical way of conquering cities. Besides, in the early game before you get catapults and trebuchets, it is practically the only option because assaulting walls with peasants and spear militia isn't very conducive to victory.

[Smikis]

After being one who always automatically eliminated Byg's supply in my game, I have come to accept it, if only because it seems to have become standard in all newer versions of SS and picking it out each time is a hassle. Also, I do some modding myself and if I present a submod to the forum I have to reinsert Byg because many people ask for it. You get used to it, and it does have some interesting aspects.

One way to do sieges is by having two generals working in relays. When one of the generals is out of supply, with troops weary etc. swap him with the other fresh one. Voilá! The whole army is fresh and resupplied. Because you see, is it not the army that is unsupplied, it is only the general... And not necessarily consider this an exploit, you can view it as a reinforcement bringing in supplies, replacements and a new perspective to the battlefield.

I think the rationale behind this submod (and others like Pnut's disease system, which is also present in SS) is to make you assault cities instead of sieging them out. Like, they want to force you to "have fun"... their way. I don't think this is nice, each has his way of skinning a cat, and long sieges was one historical way of conquering cities. Besides, in the early game before you get catapults and trebuchets, it is practically the only option because assaulting walls with peasants and spear militia isn't very conducive to victory.

i know its hero not the army , i assault sieges when i outnumber whem at least 3to 2.. or when i want fast capture.. but when it goes 1v1 full vs full stack.. and your army is far from top grade.. etc playing as genoa and attacking hre.. well .. theirs army is stronger than mine militia grade units.. so obviously assault will fail

as to historical accuracy.. it was common tactics to use long sieges. blockading castles from any supplies and such

[Caesar Clivus]

[quote=caralampio;4549388]I think the rationale behind this submod (and others like Pnut's disease system, which is also present in SS) is to make you assault cities instead of sieging them out. Like, they want to force you to "have fun"... their way. /quote]

The rationale is that the AI is at a severe disadvantage when it has to sally out and in sieges in general.

[Smikis]

[quote=Caesar Clivus;4549602]

I think the rationale behind this submod (and others like Pnut's disease system, which is also present in SS) is to make you assault cities instead of sieging them out. Like, they want to force you to "have fun"... their way. /quote]

The rationale is that the AI is at a severe disadvantage when it has to sally out and in sieges in general.

its already at disadvantage when i besiege him.. if i stand there for 8 turns.. and he doesnt come with reinforcements its his loss.. i been surrounded by 3 armies.. and beaten the crap out.. not single time..

reinstalled ss 6.1 patch.. clicked to remove supply traits.. and its still there in new game.. what the hell

playing with those deep rusians nations ( one most in corner ) forgot its name.. is pure pain.. area size is huge.. moving from one castle to another already takes 4-5 turns.. then 1-2 for building siege equipment.. by the time you can siege.. ur already at empty supplies ..

[Resurrection]

One way to do sieges is by having two generals working in relays. When one of the generals is out of supply, with troops weary etc. swap him with the other fresh one. Voilá! The whole army is fresh and resupplied. Because you see, is it not the army that is unsupplied, it is only the general... And not necessarily consider this an exploit, you can view it as a reinforcement bringing in supplies, replacements and a new perspective to the battlefield.

Lol, sorry but I usually don't buy excusing exploits and if this is not an exploit then what is? This is how you can easily bypass whole system and frankly I rather remove it then bypass it in game, which is not fun for me. There are options how to represent supply system far better then traits and without obvious ways how to bypass the system...

[Caesar Clivus]

There are options how to represent supply system far better then traits

How would you do it?

[Resurrection]

How would you do it?

I am not sure wheter I can speak about it here as it will be feature in another mod (see my sig)... but maybe I can say at least, that it can be done better for instance via supply unit.

I prefer improving gameplay rather then punishing the player... And for me improved gameplay means interesting features and options extending the playability, not artificial penalties for being in the field, for sieging city, for waging war, for having agents etc.

[Byg]

Lol, sorry but I usually don't buy excusing exploits and if this is not an exploit then what is? This is how you can easily bypass whole system and frankly I rather remove it then bypass it in game, which is not fun for me. There are options how to represent supply system far better then traits and without obvious ways how to bypass the system...

It's not an exploit, but a feature. I am more than happy that users use secondary commanders to transport supplies. I utilise this feature even more in BGRIV than I did in BGRII.

I am not sure wheter I can speak about it here as it will be feature in another mod (see my sig)... but maybe I can say at least, that it can be done better for instance via supply unit.

I prefer improving gameplay rather then punishing the player... And for me improved gameplay means interesting features and options extending the playability, not artificial penalties for being in the field, for sieging city, for waging war, for having agents etc.

Using a unit for supplies is not new, I last mentioned it myself last september. It's downside is that it loses you a fighting unit, whereas using the commander does not.
So you think armies should be able to remain in the field indefinitely without penalties ... so why are you making another supplies mod? If there is no penalty for being out of supplies then why bother putting supplies in at all? What will you acually do when out of supplies, perhaps just make the men look a little thinner?

well said.. so anyone can give me clear description how to remove bygs supply traits ( not all of traits.. i like those major victory etc, just out of food ones ) in ss 6.2 rc4, as installing 6.1 and removing those traits.. and installing 6.2 brings them back..

I posted some triggers somewhere in either the 6.2 thread or the RRRC+6.2 thread to negate supplies mid campaign. just do a search.

[Smikis]

It's not an exploit, but a feature. I am more than happy that users use secondary commanders to transport supplies. I utilise this feature even more in BGRIV than I did in BGRII.


Using a unit for supplies is not new, I last mentioned it myself last september. It's downside is that it loses you a fighting unit, whereas using the commander does not.
So you think armies should be able to remain in the field indefinitely without penalties ... so why are you making another supplies mod? If there is no penalty for being out of supplies then why bother putting supplies in at all? What will you acually do when out of supplies, perhaps just make the men look a little thinner?


I posted some triggers somewhere in either the 6.2 thread or the RRRC+6.2 thread to negate supplies mid campaign. just do a search.

for what exactly i should search.. browsing those topics.. will take more than eternity without knowing what to look for >_<

[axnsan]

well then let's translate it

My usual routine how to remove it is:

In export_character_traits.txt
- find section starting Byg's... and delete it.
- find section startin Byg's triggers... and delete it.

In descr_strat.txt
- find first character and copy into clipboard his first two traits (something like "supply 1 turnsaway 12" and then use find and replace feature with blank outcome.

In my opinion, this system is flawed structurally and no imporvement could possibly help this. Whole concept would need to change, but this is not the place to discuss it imho.

in m2tw\mods\stainless_steel_6\data\export_descr_character_traits
-do a search for byg
-find every trait that referrs to supply in that section(ie byg) and delete them
-search for byg again and it should take you into the lower part of the file - these are the triggers
-again remove anything that says something about supplies

now in the game select all the characters you have and push ` or ~
type remove_trait this supply
remove_trait this turnsaway

NOTE: i don't have stainless steel installed right now so i might have spelled the trait names wrong - i took them from the quoted post
i'll come back in 20 min after i installed ss and do the corrections

[nostradamouse]

In descr_strat.txt
- find first character and copy into clipboard his first two traits (something like "supply 1 turnsaway 12" and then use find and replace feature with blank outcome.

This seems to make me return to main menu whenever I start a new campaign, anyway you could send over your descr strat files? I did it for every desc strat files, but now I can "boot" a campaign.

[Caesar Clivus]

Can't say I've ever had a problem with running out of supplies playing Russian factions....except one time but that was my fault for doing something rather stupid.

[axnsan]

would it not be possible to use the same scrip as used for starving soldiers when the city is sieged?

[Caesar Clivus]

would it not be possible to use the same scrip as used for starving soldiers when the city is sieged?

That's not a script, that's coded within the game engine.

[Resurrection]

2Byg: Obviously our points of view are completely opposite and since you designed the supply system for SS then you also must deem it best possible and who am I to convince you otherwise. As I mentioned before, I simply prefer different approach (and not only regarding supply system)...

2Smikis: I posted how to remove it in my first response to you, what is the problem?

[Smikis]

2Byg: Obviously our points of view are completely opposite and since you designed the supply system for SS then you also must deem it best possible and who am I to convince you otherwise. As I mentioned before, I simply prefer different approach (and not only regarding supply system)...

2Smikis: I posted how to remove it in my first response to you, what is the problem?

filenames doesnt match in first place.. in second.. there are few files with same name.. and no clue what to remove.. as what you pointed wasnt in file.. i was looking into..

so i was pretty much on goose chase.

[axnsan]

i simply not use byg's mod or rr/rc because i completely HATE anything that restricts my recruitment or army movement or restricts me from siegeing a huge city for 17 turns

[Byg]

This question has nothing to do with removing supplies, but anyway. The simplest way is to just edit out the effects of those traits, if you are prepared to start a new campaign. You'll still see the traits in your generals lists but they wont do anything. If you also use "hidden" in that trait then you wont see them either.

Also remove the gainmessage lines for that trait from the traits file and do the same for export_vnvs in your text folder.

This way you wont risk messing anything up.

Another way would be to put a ; at the start of any affects line that refers to turnsaway. I haven't thought that through though and there may be unforseen consequences.