Britain and its Muslims: How the government lost the plot

[Babur]

Britain and its Muslims:
How the government lost the plot

Feb 26th 2009
From The Economist print edition

A desperate search for a new policy towards Islam has yet to produce results

Guzelian




A WAR, a riot, a terrorist attack or a row over blasphemy: not long ago, Britain’s government knew exactly what to do when a crisis loomed in relations with the country’s Muslims. As recently as July 2005, after bombs in London killed 56 people, Tony Blair was confident that he could avoid a total breakdown of trust between Muslim Britons and their compatriots.

Using an old formula, the prime minister called in some Islamic worthies and suggested they form a task force on extremism. Then, hours before the worthies were due to reconvene and mull their response, Mr Blair breezily announced that a task-force of top Muslims had just been created. They moaned, but dutifully went to work.


That system of trade-offs, the equivalent of the “beer and sandwiches” once used to woo trade unionists, had some big drawbacks. It gave hardline Muslims—generally male, old and new to Britain—disproportionate sway. It also led to some dubious bargains; for example, Muslim resentment of British foreign policy was parried by, in part, huge generosity towards the cultural demands of some Muslims—such as the right to establish schools where the curriculum bears scant relation to the lessons other young Britons get.

But in its own odd terms, the old system “worked”. Messages could be relayed between the corridors of power and the angriest and poorest parts of the Muslim street; and Muslim leaders could be induced to expend personal and political capital urging their flock to co-operate with the police and provide useful information.

Now that system, and its unspoken compromises, lies in ruins. It was jettisoned in the autumn of 2006, when the government downgraded existing ties with the Muslim Council of Britain (in which movements close to the Muslim Brotherhood and the Islamists of Pakistan were strongly represented) and tried to find different interlocutors.

But attempts to define a new policy towards Islam in Britain have been floundering since then. The Muslim population is in many ways diverging still more from the mainstream. With its large, young families, it is also growing much faster (see chart): there are 2.4m Muslims today, according to the Labour Force Survey; the census of 2001, a rather different measure, put it at 1.6m. The government is under fire from the political centre-right for being too soft on radical or reactionary Muslim groups who stop just short of endorsing violence. It is also attacked from the left (Muslim or otherwise) for using the fight against terrorism as an excuse for a general assault on Muslims and their cultural rights.



Hazel Blears, the communities secretary, sought to clarify official thinking in a speech on February 25th, after a stream of reports that the government was about to launch an ideological war against illiberal or extremist ways of thinking, even if they were not directly associated with violence. The government, she said, would reserve the right to deal with people whose ideas were unpleasant through a “spectrum of engagement, carefully calibrated to deal with individual circumstances”. With groups that have “an equivocal attitude to core values such as democracy, freedom of speech or respect towards women” there might be “some scope for limited engagement”, the minister carefully added. But on certain forms of “absolutely unacceptable behaviour”—such as homophobia, forced marriage or female genital mutilation—the government would firmly enforce the law with no regard for a cultural “oversensitivity” that had gone too far.

Her speech suggests that a debate within the cabinet on which war to prioritise—the one over ideas and values or the one against terrorism—is unresolved. The government wants to keep its options open.

But the failure of current policies aimed at fostering moderate Islam can hardly be overstated. After spending lavishly on a strategy called Prevent that was supposed to empower moderates—at least £80m ($116m) will have been dished out on such efforts by 2011—the very word “prevent” has become discredited in the strongholds of British Islam, which include east London, Birmingham and a string of northern industrial towns. At the Muslim grass roots, there is a sense that any group or person who enjoys official favour is a stooge.

Many in the government, meanwhile, think their partners are not delivering value for money. The whole relationship has deteriorated since August 2006. After a foiled plot to blow up transatlantic flights, and amid huge ire over the war in Lebanon, a group of prominent Muslims, including two now in government, signed an open letter arguing that British foreign policy in general, and its softness towards Israel in particular, was an important factor behind a surge in extremist sentiment.
Tripping up

Nearly three years on, the government’s biggest problem is that it is struggling with two big questions at once. One is the set of problems described under the catch-all term of “cohesion”—narrowing the social, economic and cultural gap between Muslims (especially in some poor urban areas of northern Britain) and the rest of society. The second is countering the threat from groups preparing to commit violence in Britain or elsewhere in the name of Islam.



The government says the two problems are related: poor, frustrated and mainly self-segregated groups are more likely to produce terrorists. Muslims as a group lag behind other Britons in qualifications, employment, housing and income (see chart). But in fact the overlap between exclusion and extremism is messy. And attempts to fight terrorism through tougher policing, which can alienate whole communities, make boosting cohesion harder.

Among those who claim to speak for disadvantaged Muslims and articulate their grievances, there has been an outpouring of indignation over the government’s stated aim of “preventing violent extremism” by making Muslim communities more “resilient” and better at dealing with hotheads. The idea seems to stigmatise all Muslims, many complain, while the violent extremism of, for example, the white far right is ignored.

Another gripe is that the Prevent programme has poisoned relations between central government and the city councils through which the money is channelled. Some say councils are being strong-armed into carrying out “community” programmes that are really thinly disguised police and intelligence work.

In Birmingham the council’s loudest activist, Salma Yaqoob, complains that Prevent money goes only to those who avoid suggesting that British foreign policy helps to foment extremism, even though the link obviously exists. (Indeed, a government security minister, Lord West, admitted in January that to deny it was “clearly bollocks”.) Resentment of the gag was exacerbated by the recent Israeli assault on Gaza. Many Muslims followed it on Middle East-based media that presented an even gorier picture of Palestinian suffering than other British viewers saw.

The Gaza crisis also triggered a round of name-calling within the world of British Islam that has laid bare a rapid diminution of the middle ground on which emollient types hope to stand. Senior Muslims at the Quilliam Foundation, a “counter-terrorism think-tank” which has received nearly £1m in funding from the home and foreign offices, issued in January a denunciation of Israeli actions that was mocked as faint-hearted by more radical Muslims, while voices on the political right questioned whether the government’s “investment” in this body was paying off.

Torn between remaking the Muslim community—a task that turns out to be much harder than the designers of the Prevent strategy ever imagined—and simply fighting terrorism, the government, understandably, feels it can hardly be expected to abandon the latter. Probing and pre-empting attacks by Muslim extremists is now understood to occupy about 75% of the energy of the British security services, who claim to have had some success in reducing the number of terrorist plots that are stopped only at the last minute. Another less obvious factor in British thinking is strong American concern over the risk that a British-born Muslim could enter the United States and commit a terrorist spectacular there. A healthy slug of America’s anti-terrorism spending goes to forestall just such a possibility.

Meanwhile a string of high-profile court cases involving terrorist conspiracies has served to increase the emotional chasm between Muslim Britons and their compatriots. As an example of two worlds diverging, take reactions to the plight of Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian who sought asylum in Britain and was later incarcerated in Guantánamo Bay. He says he was tortured by his American captors, with help from the British secret services.

Mr Mohamed returned to Britain on February 23rd, to mixed reviews. For Muslims (and human-rights campaigners on the secular left) his saga is a tale of American brutality and British collusion. In the rambunctious popular press, however, he is portrayed as a nuisance whose presence in Britain will burden the taxpayer and waste the security services’ valuable time in surveillance.

A way forward

For all the problems besetting British Islam, however, there are plenty of individuals who exemplify at least part of the solution. Among them—at least until the recession makes it harder for strivers to climb out of poverty—are successful young professionals and entrepreneurs, often women, who have managed to fly high in business, medicine, accountancy or the media. “We have prevailed in a two-fronted struggle” against social conservatism and discrimination, says Saeeda Ahmed, the founder of a social-affairs consultancy in the north (to hear an interview with Miss Ahmed, see article).

But successful British Muslims as well as poor ones resent the fact that the rest of society often sees them mainly as potential extremists. Sarah Joseph, a convert to Islam who edits the glossy monthly Emel, says Muslims are fed up with being asked if they are against violence; they want people to know what they are for, such as social justice. The sad fact, in a country that has come to live in fear of terrorism, is that many Britons are indeed more interested in assessing Muslims’ potential for violence than in anything else about them.

http://www.economist.com/world/brita...ry_id=13186100

I agree with this article,I think the British government has a long way to go in terms of integrating Muslims into society.

[motiv-8]

To be fair, I think the Muslim diaspora community in Britain has a way to go in terms of integrating themselves into British society (if that term means anything anymore), unless there's clear evidence that Muslims are largely being denied equal opportunity to jobs, education, and welfare.

[Каие]

I am actually frightened of the statistic that 8-9% of 0-3 year old Children are Muslims. Unless the government and moderate community moves post haste, those kids will grow up in the same **** that everyone else is stuck in, this will cause epic problems in the future.

I must say we must tighten up laws which allows British Pakistanis/Bangladeshi to draft in wives from Pakistan/Bangladesh, who don't ever learn english, get a job or even leave their houses. That loop hole must be tightened up. English language must be a requirement.

The less the above ^^ happens, the less kids that are a) born and b) grow up in abject poverty and c) grow up in total isolation from the rest of Briton and d) less radicalised and hateful

[Babur]

I am actually frightened of the statistic that 8-9% of 0-3 year old Children are Muslims. Unless the government and moderate community moves post haste, those kids will grow up in the same **** that everyone else is stuck in, this will cause epic problems in the future.

I must say we must tighten up laws which allows British Pakistanis/Bangladeshi to draft in wives from Pakistan/Bangladesh, who don't ever learn english, get a job or even leave their houses. That loop hole must be tightened up. English language must be a requirement.

The less the above ^^ happens, the less kids that are a) born and b) grow up in abject poverty and c) grow up in total isolation from the rest of Briton and d) less radicalised and hateful

Yeah same here.

And this practice of bringing in badly educated wives from Pakistan or Bangladesh does indeed need to stop.They're sometimes 1st or 2nd cousins too .

Very true,this is the root cause of the problems facing Muslims in British society today.

[Каие]

Yeah same here. And this practice of bringing in badly educated wives from Pakistan or Bangladesh does indeed need to stop.They're sometimes 1st or 2nd cousins too .

Which is a further strain on the NHS, and tax payers wallets.

British Asians appear to be influenced by the Afro-Caribbean community IMO.

This is very very true, which means in the fight against radical Islam we also need to kill black/blad gang culture etc.

ROFl that sounds exactly like them!.But the fact that they have little understanding of their own religion even is alarming since they can be led astray by preachers.

We need a central Islamic leadership in Britain, similar to the CofE, to declare them non-Muslims. Sick of those bastards tainting me and holding me back in society with their incurable retardation.

yeah Rome KB8 would agree with you on this.This doesn't help their integration into British society.

It doesn't help society at all.

true but I feel that British Asians know little about their own culture so they have to imitate others. One of my brother's friends put it this way:

Why must they impersonate the underclasses of society?

:hmmm:

Victim hood complex.

In their minds it is simply.
"We are victims, let's not try". "We are victims, lets be rebels, no one understands us" blah blah blah.

Jews in this country have suffered for thousands of years, yet have achieved very much, they have no victim mentality, no victim hood complex, they overachieve to compensate. So do Indians. But not Pakistanis, or Bangladeshis, or Caribbean. Or even the white working classes for that matter, whom I know too much.

Victim hood complex.

I agree that such characteristics only propose further racial and cultural segregation. These wives and second cousins 'drafted in' can be attributed to the root the problem. Consequentlyto me. and pretty much everyone else I know living in the london, the disharmony with the muslim community is as a direct result from conflicting social influenes. Religion aside you only have walk down Brick Lane (east london) and see the gangs of aggressive Indian and Pakistani chavs, speaking a mutilated language not only inconprehensible to me, but to their country men. Talk about isolation, they stand out more than a pornstar at a star trek convention.

As an ordinary Briton, I absolutely refuse to be the host of ethnic civil conflict. I would actually support declaring all types of gangs domestic terrorist groups and deport every single foreign gangster. It is absolutely unacceptable behaviour from refugees, immigrants and guests. Immigration is a privilege, not a right.

French can finally laugh on British about this issue.

Not really, there is still the fact that they are French.

[Heinz Guderian]

Did this report include anything about how people from the sub-continent drive here in Britain? I think lane discipline, and use of indicators when changing lane should be taught in majority asian schools.

Whilst i'm on the subject, when on a pretty clear motorway driving in a nissan sunny at 65mph, its customary to move over to the left lane to let other drivers pass and not stay in the fast lane oblivious to other road users. Granted your car may be overloaded with 8 kids, but its just good manners.

Could someone pass this message on?

[Babur]

Which is a further strain on the NHS, and tax payers wallets.

yup since they don't have anything to contribute to the UK

This is very very true, which means in the fight against radical Islam we also need to kill black/blad gang culture etc.

Yeah since preachers can then teach them the wrong brand of Islam.And whenever I hear terror suspects talking etc or read transcripts of what they say like via email or text,they always use that kind of language too and there are plenty of "bruvs" lol.

As an ordinary Briton, I absolutely refuse to be the host of ethnic civil conflict. I would actually support declaring all types of gangs domestic terrorist groups and deport every single foreign gangster. It is absolutely unacceptable behaviour from refugees, immigrants and guests. Immigration is a privilege, not a right.

yeah this is very true

Not really, there is still the problem that they are.... French.

We need a central Islamic leadership in Britain, similar to the CofE, to declare them non-Muslims. Sick of those bastards tainting me and holding me back in society with their incurable retardation.

Well doesn't the UK have a Mufti?

Victim hood complex.

In their minds it is simply.
"We are victims, let's not try". "We are victims, lets be rebels, no one understands us" blah blah blah.

Jews in this country have suffered for thousands of years, yet have achieved very much, they have no victim mentality, no victim hood complex, they overachieve to compensate. So do Indians. But not Pakistanis, or Bangladeshis, or Caribbean. Or even the white working classes for that matter, whom I know too much.

Victim hood complex.

Ah that's the term for it right?,I see.

Well yeah that is very true and I have seen that.

Did this report include anything about how people from the sub-continent drive here in Britain? I think lane discipline, and use of indicators when changing lane should be taught in majority asian schools.

Whilst i'm on the subject, when on a pretty clear motorway driving in a nissan sunny at 65mph, its customary to move over to the left lane to let other drivers pass and not stay in the fast lane oblivious to other road users. Granted your car may be overloaded with 8 kids, but its just good manners.

Could someone pass this message on?

ROFL,how is that relevant?

[Heinz Guderian]

ROFL,how is that relevant?

It is the fault of the government that asian men keep cutting me up on the road. Especially lean asian men with well demarcated facial hair in BMW X5s with 20 inch alloys.

[Каие]

yup since they don't have anything to contribute to the UK

Pakistanis make up some 2% of the population, but over 34% of genetic defects and illnesses. That is a strain on the NHS, furthermore as we established, very little tax is being paid that way due to little to know contribution in employment.

Yeah since preachers can then teach them the wrong brand of Islam.And whenever I hear terror suspects talking etc or read transcripts of what they say like via email or text,they always use that kind of language too and there are plenty of "bruvs" lol.

I actually thought a good plan was to draft them all in a Muslim regiment, but too bad they hate that. Plus teaching them guns, isn't exactly the best plan. MI5 say there is stereotypical terrorist, or radical, it is all very very varied. The issue is at grass roots as opposed to

yeah this is very true

I did not mean to be harsh, but it makes us all look bad.

Did this report include anything about how people from the sub-continent drive here in Britain? I think lane discipline, and use of indicators when changing lane should be taught in majority asian schools.

Whilst i'm on the subject, when on a pretty clear motorway driving in a nissan sunny at 65mph, its customary to move over to the left lane to let other drivers pass and not stay in the fast lane oblivious to other road users. Granted your car may be overloaded with 8 kids, but its just good manners.

Could someone pass this message on?

Someone told me an Indian driving test consists of driving forward for over a hundred meters. If you;re rally unlucky, they'll be a slight bend in the road.

[Vince Noir]

As an ordinary Briton, I absolutely refuse to be the host of ethnic civil conflict. I would actually support declaring all types of gangs domestic terrorist groups and deport every single foreign gangster. It is absolutely unacceptable behaviour from refugees, immigrants and guests. Immigration is a privilege, not a right.

Honestly, I couldn't agree more.

Did this report include anything about how people from the sub-continent drive here in Britain? I think lane discipline, and use of indicators when changing lane should be taught in majority asian schools.

Whilst i'm on the subject, when on a pretty clear motorway driving in a nissan sunny at 65mph, its customary to move over to the left lane to let other drivers pass and not stay in the fast lane oblivious to other road users. Granted your car may be overloaded with 8 kids, but its just good manners.

Could someone pass this message on?

Are you sufferer? http://ezinearticles.com/?Dealing-Wi...ood&id=1550594

It's ok. We can get you help...

[Mikelus Trento]

English language must be a requirement.

Good luck on that.

It sounds like you are eager to preserve the English way. Which I can understand.

In America, every attempt to do with our language what you are suggesting to yours, has met with failure. You don't hear much about it anymore. I guess we just kind of figured out it is simpler to print everything in English and Spanish.

If the Arabics here become a higher % of the population, and the need for their language to be printed on things become beneficial, I'm pretty sure it will be.

It has to do with a melting pot mentality I guess.

[Vince Noir]

I agree that such characteristics only propose further racial and cultural segregation. These wives and second cousins 'drafted in' can be attributed to the root the problem. Consequentlyto me. and pretty much everyone else I know living in the london, the disharmony with the muslim community is as a direct result from conflicting social influenes. Religion aside you only have walk down Brick Lane (east london) and see the gangs of aggressive Indian and Pakistani chavs, speaking a mutilated language not only inconprehensible to me, but to their country men. Talk about isolation, they stand out more than a pornstar at a star trek convention.

[hellheaven1987]

French can finally laugh on British about this issue.

[Thorn777]

French can finally laugh on British about this issue.

Im not French, but German will do to.

Im glad to see awareness in the UK of its problems, its the first step to wards solutions, and we Euros(Romekb8) can only learn from the successes and mistakes made going from one country to another. If we take the issue seriously and not leave it over to populist characters like Geert Wilders & co, we will most certainly improve the conditions of the Muslim population and as a society.

[Babur]

I agree that such characteristics only propose further racial and cultural segregation. These wives and second cousins 'drafted in' can be attributed to the root the problem. Consequentlyto me. and pretty much everyone else I know living in the london, the disharmony with the muslim community is as a direct result from conflicting social influenes. Relgion aside you only have walk down Brick Lane (east london) and see the gangs of aggressive Pakistani chavs, speaking a mutilated language not only inconprehensible to me, but to their country men. Talk about isolation, they stand out more than a pornstar at star trek convention.

yeah extremely true,I just laugh at them for lulz because of the way they speak! .It is very awkard when they mix this with Islam as well :hmmm:.

British Asians appear to be influenced by the Afro-Caribbean community IMO.

French can finally laugh on British about this issue.

lol even though they have Rachida Dati :

[Vince Noir]

yeah extremely true,I just laugh at them for lulz because of the way they speak! .It is very awkard when they mix this with Islam as well :hmmm:.

haha, my God - don't even get me started with the arguments I have seen with guys wavering their religion around so proudly when they don't know the first thing about it. For instance, I've heard a guy say to one of my gf's best friend's that the reason he intends to have 4 wives when he is older is because "a man has needs innnit"...

Fortunately for me I wasn't subjected to much of this is my schooling years, however through my girlfriend I've had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting some of the most culturally and religiously ignorant individuals imaginable. They couldnt be more clueless about their religion or themselves.

British Asians appear to be influenced by the Afro-Caribbean community IMO.

Yeah there is a lot of this in general. But the gang form of this sub-culture tend to be disolusioned with life in general...again some of the strongest Jamaican accents I've ever heard have come from blinged up kids dealing weed on street corners who've never even left their council estate.

[Babur]

haha, my God - don't even get me started with the arguments I have see with guys wavering their religion around all proud when they don't know the first thing about it. I mean, I've heard a guy say to one of my gf's best friend's that he intends to have 4 wives when he's older cause "a man has need innnit"...

ROFl that sounds exactly like them!.But the fact that they have little understanding of their own religion even is alarming since they can be led astray by preachers.

Fortunately for me I wasn't subjected to much of this is my schooling years, however through my girlfriend I've had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting some of the most culturally and religiously ignorant individuals imaginable. They couldnt be more clueless about their religion or themselves.

yeah Rome KB8 would agree with you on this.This doesn't help their integration into British society.

Yeah there is a lot of this in general. But the gang form of this sub-culture tend to be disolusioned with life in general...again some of the strongest Jamaican accents I've ever heard have come from blinged up kids dealing weed on street corners who've never even left their council estate.

true but I feel that British Asians know little about their own culture so they have to imitate others.

One of my brother's friends put it this way:

Why must they impersonate the underclasses of society?

:hmmm:

[Zephyrus]

haha, my God - don't even get me started with the arguments I have seen with guys wavering their religion around so proudly when they don't know the first thing about it. For instance, I've heard a guy say to one of my gf's best friend's that the reason he intends to have 4 wives when he is older is because "a man has needs innnit"...

Fortunately for me I wasn't subjected to much of this is my schooling years, however through my girlfriend I've had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting some of the most culturally and religiously ignorant individuals imaginable. They couldnt be more clueless about their religion or themselves.

Yeah there is a lot of this in general. But the gang form of this sub-culture tend to be disolusioned with life in general...again some of the strongest Jamaican accents I've ever heard have come from blinged up kids dealing weed on street corners who've never even left their council estate.

Well, at least the chavs can target them without fears of reprisals.

welkl it looks like they ingrained themselves into the retarded (chav) part. I suggest this for all britains to cleanse the chavs.

I agree vehemently with that statement, and I'm not even british!

[Babur]

well how would the Conservatives tackle this problem? :hmmm:

[Vince Noir]

well how would the Conservatives tackle this problem? :hmmm:

"We all know what has to be done..."