Help the Greeks against the Romans!

[Palandiell]

hey, i have decided to play the greeks cause they just are cool, but its kinda difficult for one, your cities are pretty spread and for two, rome attacks you pretty soon. now, i gave up one city on the west coast of greece to the brutii but other than that, i am doing ok. yet what is the best thing to do against the romans? because a phlanax is really bad since the romans throw javelins first. any advice how to play greece?

[Selifator]

City defence. Either hold them at teh gates, place archers on the walls and flame them. Or corner defence, stick your army in the corner and let the AI send all troops at you like a pack of rabid dogs.

[Haxiel]

Quickly conquer Athens and Kydonia, Athens may be a bit tough since they start with stone walls, but Kydonia has no walls whatsoever and is poorly garrison. I took it with some 3 Militia Hoplites, but if you feel it's too difficult, you can always take your Spartan Hoplites, chances are that they will never get to fight anyway, not if you don't send them to the front. Sparta never got attacked in my campaign.
So you have Athens and Kydonia. Develop their economic buildings, get some trade going between these two and Pergamum and you will be hoarding cash soon enough. Now you just have to spam hoplites till everyone is dead, no matter how much they suck, you can never be on the red with the Greeks. Oh and try to get trade rights with everyone who's on the Aegean sea and Carthage, for Syracuse to trade with some settlements at least, since it's cut off from your mainland.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Yeah, the Roman javelins are a pain when playing as Greeks, but probably the best ways are outlined above, in street battles and stuff where phalanxes are extremely effective. Alternatively though, you can recruit some fodder troops like peasants or peltasts, use them to soak in some Roman javelins (and throw some of their own, in the case of peltasts). Then send the phalanxes in.

[Selifator]

Athens is easy to take. They have peltasts I think, or peasants, so just send a small cavalry force to besiege the city. They'll sally, you draw away the hoplites, charge the peltasts and follow them into the city. Capture all the gates, and you're good.

[Palandiell]

i just cant survive with the greeks

the makedonians together with the brutii are just too much for me!!! any advice?

[Selifator]

Yes, against the macedonians. You have the advantage of better hoplites in the beginning, use it. They will spam Light Lancers, so attack them in the cities. Try to grab a lot of coastal cities and inland Greece. Just use the tips above against the Brutii, then attack when you have enough forces to kick their ass in Italy.

[Haxiel]

I had Macedonians for breakfast yesterday, they fielded 5 light cavalry units and 5 peltasts together with 4 pikemen and militia hoplites against my 4 archer, 8 hoplite, 3 militia cavalry and 1 greek cavalry army. It was a bloody, black and orange mess.

[Palandiell]

so, you guys say

first, kick makedonia out of greece,
then build economy with defense
and then attack brutii and the scipii right?

[Haxiel]

You can leave the Macedons Thessalonica for a while, though you should try to get a ceasefire or an alliance with them, if possible. They will develop some tier 3 military buildings for when you conquer it, with any luck. Meanwhile, you can build your economy easily and unthreatened. Try to capture Halicarnassus, Kydonia and Rhodes (should be rebel-controlled) and get trade rights from Egypt, Seleucia or Pontus (depends on your campaign), that should make you rich soon enough.

Though it depends on which faction the AI has set to "go rogue", you will probably not get attacked by the Romans for a while. There's something I did, to buy me some time. I got Apollonia very early on, a simple siege, the Brutii had left very few units garrisoned. I stayed there for a turn, then on the next one, I destroyed every destroyable building in the settlement and went back to my lands. Next thing the Brutii knew, they were facing an 8 units revolt, all having 6 chevrons and top armor and weapons. Doing that will keep them busy since the Senate will ask them to get Apollonia, and they'll focus on that while you take other rebel settlements.

By the time both the Macedonians and the Brutii become a lesser threat, you should have 40 or 50k with 8k more or less coming on each turn. At this point it's, like I said, a matter of spamming hoplites, peltasts and archers till everyone is dead. You will probably have a positive balance at the end of each turn, even if you keep all settlements building periodically, half garrisoned cities and a massive standing army (I'd say about a full stack and maybe a half)

[Palandiell]

You can leave the Macedons Thessalonica for a while, though you should try to get a ceasefire or an alliance with them, if possible. They will develop some tier 3 military buildings for when you conquer it, with any luck. Meanwhile, you can build your economy easily and unthreatened. Try to capture Halicarnassus, Kydonia and Rhodes (should be rebel-controlled) and get trade rights from Egypt, Seleucia or Pontus (depends on your campaign), that should make you rich soon enough.

Though it depends on which faction the AI has set to "go rogue", you will probably not get attacked by the Romans for a while. There's something I did, to buy me some time. I got Apollonia very early on, a simple siege, the Brutii had left very few units garrisoned. I stayed there for a turn, then on the next one, I destroyed every destroyable building in the settlement and went back to my lands. Next thing the Brutii knew, they were facing an 8 units revolt, all having 6 chevrons and top armor and weapons. Doing that will keep them busy since the Senate will ask them to get Apollonia, and they'll focus on that while you take other rebel settlements.

By the time both the Macedonians and the Brutii become a lesser threat, you should have 40 or 50k with 8k more or less coming on each turn. At this point it's, like I said, a matter of spamming hoplites, peltasts and archers till everyone is dead. You will probably have a positive balance at the end of each turn, even if you keep all settlements building periodically, half garrisoned cities and a massive standing army (I'd say about a full stack and maybe a half)

yeah, but the scipii are threatning my city and are just on the verge of taking it.

why do hastati kill normal hoplites even though hoplites have higher armor?? (during a siege the hastati almost never throw their spears)

[Haxiel]

What city are the Scipii attacking? If it's Syracuse, then maybe you should let it go. I held out there until the attacks stopped, now it's developed and I can endure a full banner siege, but as I said, if the AI has determined -and that is random- that the Scipii are to go rogue and conquer everything, then give it up.

Moving on to the Hastati issue, we don't know your difficulty settings, but on Hard Hastati and regular hoplites are almost matched (If no pila are thrown, that is), but they can easily surround you if you do not form broadly. Remember that you're supposed to be on the lose against Romans, your combat tactics are archaic compared to theirs. Still, you can try to pin them with a unit of hoplites and then hammer them with another coming from the flank, that's an assured rout, general close or no.

[Palandiell]

What city are the Scipii attacking? If it's Syracuse, then maybe you should let it go. I held out there until the attacks stopped, now it's developed and I can endure a full banner siege, but as I said, if the AI has determined -and that is random- that the Scipii are to go rogue and conquer everything, then give it up.

Moving on to the Hastati issue, we don't know your difficulty settings, but on Hard Hastati and regular hoplites are almost matched (If no pila are thrown, that is), but they can easily surround you if you do not form broadly. Remember that you're supposed to be on the lose against Romans, your combat tactics are archaic compared to theirs. Still, you can try to pin them with a unit of hoplites and then hammer them with another coming from the flank, that's an assured rout, general close or no.

ah ok

well, one of their siege towers opened and out dropped the hastati onto my waiting hoplites, yet my hoplites were pretty smashed and didnt retreat once their morality hit the floor. it wasnt a very balanced battle for me.

[Haxiel]

Do not use phalanx units to defend walls! That is a waste of good men. Put peasants on 'em instead. They suck, yes, but they're 240 men and they will fight to the death anyway. You can fire arrows or javelins on the Hastati while they fight, you can spare the peasants, but if you really want to be sure of killing en masse, put the peasants over the walls to soak up the enemy and deploy everyone else in the Plaza. The enemy will win the walls and move to capture the plaza. When that happens, block the street they're coming from with your phalanxes. That never gets old and is very useful indeed. I reckon you could rout something like 4-5 Hastati with only 2 Hoplites and archers firing over the spearment, just block the street with a phalanx and when they're low in number move the other forward.

[Palandiell]

Do not use phalanx units to defend walls! That is a waste of good men. Put peasants on 'em instead. They suck, yes, but they're 240 men and they will fight to the death anyway. You can fire arrows or javelins on the Hastati while they fight, you can spare the peasants, but if you really want to be sure of killing en masse, put the peasants over the walls to soak up the enemy and deploy everyone else in the Plaza. The enemy will win the walls and move to capture the plaza. When that happens, block the street they're coming from with your phalanxes. That never gets old and is very useful indeed. I reckon you could rout something like 4-5 Hastati with only 2 Hoplites and archers firing over the spearment, just block the street with a phalanx and when they're low in number move the other forward.

so basically, as greece one gotta always let the wall be taken since ones standard unit is the hoplit right?

[StalkAndStrike]

If you start abandoning your cities, then the brutii will spread like wildfire, not to mention all the other hundreds of enemy factions surrounding you, the only way to hold your own in the long term, is take their cities if they are weak enough, and if they have a good sized army, try to get them to attack your cities, and devastated them with your phalanxes

[StalkAndStrike]

oh, and be sure to build up cavalry barracks, you will need Greek Lancers for taking out roman formantions, as they lack in spearmen, aslo to flank any macedonian phalanxes

[C-Rob]

ARMORED HOPLITES!!! Try to get them asap and take macedonian cities. Also, if you manage to take back that city, the bruttii are done.

[moveable nu]

I think it's important to hold Syracuse, if you can. The Scipii will attack there very early, and you have a very good general with some ok troops there. Recruit what you can, and hire mercs early, if you can hold onto Syracuse, the Scipii at least will be smarting, and you can grab Messana quickly before they send more men from Capua.

As for the Brutii, try to hold them at Thermon. They'll usually form an alliance with the Macedonians (if you haven't), so you may get lots of attacks there, and it may be difficult to survive with only wooden walls. If you lose Thermon, Athens is the best place to defend. As has already been said, try and get some Armoured Hoplites. I also find Cretan Archers especially useful against, well, everything...

[Lord Thesaurian]

roman javelins arent that bad, and considering that the AI loves being sarissa (or hoplon, in this case) kebab, u shouldnt have a prob with the romans unless they spam stacks and pour into a poorly defended area. If they do, just remember to take advantage of forests, hills, and bridges. the phalanx is designed for defensive combat, and the greeks have the best in the world.

Greek phalanxes eat Macedonian ones for breakfast. the only problem with them is that they spam missiles (who often have gold weapons because of the blacksmith-artimes combo) and light lancers (who are excellent, cheap medium cav) so the key is to get their phalanxes out of the way quickly and then decimate the missiles and cav since the AI cant seem to make a coordinated attack, even on VH/VH.

The greeks have one of the best if not the best economies in the game, so that shouldnt cause u any problems. the greek navy is very good, and with such a great economy to back it, it is the second arm of the greek army. every time i play and let the greeks last until late game, they are almost as hard as the romans, mainly because of their spammed hoplites and triremes. Besides, winning the campaign isnt just about winning battles. proper campaign strategy is just as important if not more.

Legio_Italica's Tried and True System to
Defeat a Strong Enemy:

1. Convert to a defensive war on all other enemies and focus on the one.

2. Blockade all ports, thus cutting the enemy's income and the morale of his citizens.

3. Send spies and asassins (diseased if possible) to wreak havoc on the enemy's interior

4. Let the effects of this soak in. Dont invade until you are absolutely ready.

5. Once you attack, blitz your enemy. Never allow him any respite. You are attacking, so maintain the initiative. Fight on your terms and only your terms. Anything else spells defeat or Pyrrhic victory.

6. Utterly destroy your enemy. Leave no trace of him anywhere in the world; wipe him from the history books to ensure he never rises again to haunt you.

fwew. i need to write a greek guide........