War without End...

**Muagan_ra** · February 26, 2009, 01:43 PM

Replaying as my first faction, Venice, with all the new expertise of the working of the game I've picked up, making it a very enjoyabe game. It's been fun, but I'm in somewhat of a pickle.

There was peace for a long time. The first major war was against an alliance of Milan-Hungary-Byzantium. I destroyed Byzantium, and Hungary made peace with me (though I've found it impossible to initiate a ceasefire settlement myself). Milan, as usual, was impossible to make peace with.

So I took over Milan's Italian posessions, and for a while it was good. But then, quite inexplicably, the following happened;

- France, Milan and the Holy Roman Empire all allied with eachother.
- The French appeared in my lands with two huge armies, and starting laying siege to Milan and Genoa.
- The Holy Roman Empire came out of nowhere and laid seige to Venice.
- and Milan finally came to fight me as well.

And get this, this all happened at exactly the same time! In the same turn! I'm glad to see such sophisticated AI strategy, and it was fun fighting them.

I've assassinated Milan out of existance, but now I have a problem. It is impossible to make peace with France or the HRE. I really, really don't want to have to conquer any more of their lands than I have already - but I'm finding it impossible to get a ceasefire, even if I offer them ludicrous sums of money and territories.

The terrible relations with so many different factions, including the ones they are also allied to, is straining my reputation. This makes diplomacy even more impossible.

What conditions do the AI need to be in to sue for peace? Does it depend on the length of the war? It's making this game incredibly frustrating for me.

**eggthief** · February 26, 2009, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Muagan_ra

I'm glad to see such sophisticated AI strategy, and it was fun fighting them.

I wish I could say the same.

**D.B. Cooper** · February 26, 2009, 02:11 PM

Dunno if there is a set "Offer X" that ensures peace. Try offering a huge amount of money and a few territories. Peace terms are strange with the AI. Egypt laid siege to Antioch one time and I asked for peace. They declined and considered the offer "Highly Demanding". Once they captured Antioch they gladly made peace and trade rights with me. I guess they really wanted Antioch.

**kerowhacko** · February 26, 2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by eggthief

I wish I could say the same.

Yeah, I feel the same really. I'd like to think it was some sophisticated plan or some such, but really, it's just about dicking over the player more than it is strategic at all, heh.

Like once, I was playing as England. Had good relations with my neighbors and such, France attacked me, so I beat them into a pulp. Their last territory is Marseilles, which I found Milan had under siege. Milan fails at taking Marseilles, so I walk up and besiege it as well. I decided to wait an extra turn from building extra siege equipment (they had about a full stack garrisoned inside) and in that mean time, Milan and France allied, and the failed Milan army ran up and attacked my army besieging Marseille. I beat them both, took the city and destroyed France and was stuck in a war with Milan they didn't want to back out of. I quit playing the game, not only did that not make any sense whatsoever but I really wanted nothing to do with Milan at that point, heh.

**Stressball** · February 26, 2009, 04:24 PM

Just kill everyone.

**Conquistatore** · February 26, 2009, 05:46 PM

It's the different game engines working against each other that causes the problem. The diplomatic side wants to negociate trade and other relations while the military side wants to go to war and conquer. Obviously one side dominates over the other at times so you get multiple front wars.. Once you are at war with a few factions it is almost impossible to get out of it. What difficulty are you playing on? VH campaign difficulty will mean it is near impossible to form good relations with factions, especially when at war.

**eggthief** · February 26, 2009, 06:12 PM

Yes the Op's point has nothing to do with intelligence, the game will always have the it's me vs the player attitude. IMO that is just a cheap way to make your AI look smart.

**claudius2007** · February 26, 2009, 06:47 PM

Give Stainless Steel 4.1 a try. It's much better from the AI perspective and relations. Usually however, once you have ruined your reputation there's no easy way back. Nobody will accept anything you offer because you are probably untrustworthy or something like that. So just make sure you sign some alliances early on and honor them.

**Manoflooks** · February 26, 2009, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by claudius2007

Give Stainless Steel 4.1 a try. It's much better from the AI perspective and relations. Usually however, once you have ruined your reputation there's no easy way back. Nobody will accept anything you offer because you are probably untrustworthy or something like that. So just make sure you sign some alliances early on and honor them.

6.2 might be better choice

**Lord Feloric's Ambassador** · February 26, 2009, 07:20 PM

My Lord wishes you good luck in your campaign. If your situation is as dire as you make it seem, you will need it.

**Muagan_ra** · February 26, 2009, 08:36 PM

To be honest, I'm willing to even cheat to break up this alliance and end this war, because I see where it's going. Anyone know how to use the console to alter diplomacy?

BTW: Thanks for the suggestion of Stainless Steel, but I'm a bit distrustful of mods for this game. If I where to use one, I want just a basic assortment of tweaks - I don't want new factions (except Ireland...), or new units, new settlements. If anyone knows of a mod that simply tweaks the AI, be sure to let me know. But if it radically changes the content of the vanilla campaign I'm not really interested.

**Black Knight** · February 27, 2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Muagan_ra

To be honest, I'm willing to even cheat to break up this alliance and end this war, because I see where it's going. Anyone know how to use the console to alter diplomacy?

BTW: Thanks for the suggestion of Stainless Steel, but I'm a bit distrustful of mods for this game. If I where to use one, I want just a basic assortment of tweaks - I don't want new factions (except Ireland...), or new units, new settlements. If anyone knows of a mod that simply tweaks the AI, be sure to let me know. But if it radically changes the content of the vanilla campaign I'm not really interested.

You should really play a mod like SS. Give it a try at least, you lose nothing with it. They make nearly all aspects of the game more functionable, incluind diplomacy (tough it is impossible to solve all problems), they're often more historicaly accurate, and offer a far enjoyable experience overall.

I don't think you can use the console to alter your relations with other factions, if that's your idea. All you can do is enhance the diplomatic ability of your diplomats. Here are some traits:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Lord Feloric's Ambassador** · February 26, 2009, 08:56 PM

The Retrofit Mod perhaps?

**Muagan_ra** · February 26, 2009, 09:10 PM

You reckon that would fix my diplomacy problem?

**Lord Feloric's Ambassador** · February 26, 2009, 09:16 PM

Most likely not.

**Conquistatore** · February 26, 2009, 09:42 PM

Create a spinoff of MTW2, that might fix it.

**Fishcakes** · February 26, 2009, 10:34 PM

I rather make the faction i want to go to war with declare war on me (by failed spies and assassins). Then I take a couple of settlements and bingo, they want peace with me. For peace I ask for a city or two. Rinse and repeat. It just seems that getting a ceasefire normally is near impossible. Or you could try to call a crusade against it.

**Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh** · February 27, 2009, 01:33 AM

Try having a war with the Papal States who don't seem to exist anywhere on the map! Rome rebelled from Papal control and I defeated the token Papal army outside Rome, and conquered Rome, and I can't find the Papacy anywhere! As far as I understand, this means permanent state of excommunication (one leader died, and the excom was not lifted), which is straining to say the least, what with Portugal, HRE, Venice (Milan is already gone) at war with me, with England, Spain and Aragon looking at me threateningly.

**Conquistatore** · February 27, 2009, 01:39 AM

Is there a currently elected Pope? It is impossible to destroy the Papal States completely, unless you kill the Pope, take all his cities and never let a bishop/cardinal exist.