UCL are trying to ban the Military Society

[Vince Noir]

UCL (University College London)

Last year there was a meeting at UCL, prompted by members of the universites certain left wing societies (that which I have no problem with), proposing to ban the OTC (Officer Training Corps).

The whole campaign was started by an anti-war campaigner who said that the Army had no place in the University because the War in Iraq.

I do think the war in Iraq was illegal and I am an advocate of democracy. However, the fact is that in university it has become fashionable for people to talk a lot of revolutionary talk, only to fail to change their lifestyles or make any real effort, if it means it might cost them personally. I think this does more harm than good because it trivialises the efforts made by those who are genuinely making an effort for a cause. In this sense the vote was a farce. Something meaningful has been trivialised.

Many of my friends are still in the OTC, however, strictly speaking they're not allowed in the Union or to take part in any university sports teams or societies. This is disgusting. They should have every right.

It should have been an for Tony Blair/Gordon Brown, not the UK armed forces. The personnel didn't make the decision to go to war, and the sacrifice they make whilst serving abroad on operations should be respected and remembered regardless of ones philosophical political opinions. If the students wanted to cast a motion opposing an aggressive war, they should have done so politically.

Article to read:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...om-campus.html

A year on, tomorrow is when we are taking a stand against this Nazism. The univerity has over 20,000 students. I pray for a big turn out as I plan to speak.

Your views on this? Any help on views/facts/articles I can use and quote would be a great help.

[Barry Goldwater]

What a bunch of sorry s. Pathetic morons...

[Kiljan Arslan]

UCL? where is that exactly?

[zerathule]

Yep what's the UCL and what's the OTC ?

[Kiljan Arslan]

never mind ....

[Vince Noir]

Univeristy College London. The OTC is voluntry and it is the the Army's independent operational test organization.

For instance in the weekends to take part in military experiences.

[Chaigidel]

without the goddamn military there wouldnt be any schools for you to study in, these people should be honored.

this is indeed disgusting, the treatment of our trained killers has always been lackluster in all nations; even though they make the greatest sacrifice for us, they make of themselves murderers

[Kiljan Arslan]

Agreed with Chaigidel.

[jsktrogdor]

Its silly that they would ban it, but can I ask if the OTC has anything to do with recruitment?

[Chaigidel]

I dont think so, sounds more like its for graduates seeking to become officers, rather than direct recruiters.

[jsktrogdor]

I dont think so, sounds more like its for graduates seeking to become officers, rather than direct recruiters.

Cause that recruiting can get annoying, and often very manipulative. I can see why someone would want to ban that on a college campus, I wish someone would at my local theater before the movie. Their worse than the propaganda films in WWII.

[Holger Danske]

What a bunch of self-esteemed pathetic and idealistic morons...
Without the military they wouldn't even be able to go to their precious schools and clap at each others pathetic and naive ideals and world visions. A disgrace to civilization, at best...

[SorelusImperion]

Don't be ridiculous it's your very own fault that you did not take part in the original voting process. And yes democracy works this way if you don't vote you can't complain since you were offered the opportunity to voice your concerns and this opportunity was obviously neglected.

If you think that you need to protest against it, fine. But don't play the nazi card when you were perfectly capable of preventing the original motion if you had participated in the democratic process.

What a bunch of self-esteemed pathetic and idealistic morons...
Without the military they wouldn't even be able to go to their precious schools and clap at each others pathetic and naive ideals and world visions. A disgrace to civilization, at best...

You want to see the benefits of the military ? Look at Burma. Those self-esteemed, pathetic, idialistic and leftie monks. How did they dare to protest against their military junta ?

[Vince Noir]

Don't be ridiculous it's your very own fault that you did not take part in the original voting process. And yes democracy works this way if you don't vote you can't complain since you were offered the opportunity to voice your concerns and this opportunity was obviously neglected.

If you think that you need to protest against it, fine. But don't play the nazi card when you were perfectly capable of preventing the original motion if you had participated in the democratic process.

Mate...no. Just don't reply if your going to be that unhelpful.

[Vince Noir]

Cause that recruiting can get annoying, and often very manipulative. I can see why someone would want to ban that on a college campus, I wish someone would at my local theater before the movie. Their worse than the propaganda films in WWII.

No its not the recruiting side that people are "getting pissed off with". You've missed the point entirely. No one stands about urging you to join. This isnt the states. It a society that many choose to join for many perosnal reasons. It is actually a lot of fun and anyone should have the right to join it if they so wish.

[SorelusImperion]

Mate...no. Just don't reply if your going to be that unhelpful.

Three proposals to help you:
1st
If you consider the voting process as illegal because the minimal requirements were not fullfilled than point out what rule was violated.
2nd
If you just want to drum up support than just leave, this is a debate forum and not der Stürmer.
3rd
If the motion made you sad on a personal level and you want beeing counseled go to the personal advice sub forum instead.

[Vince Noir]

If you just want to drum up support than just leave, this is a debate forum and not der Stürmer. If the motion made you sad and you want beeing counseled go to the personal advice sub forum.

What? I was asking for for views on the banning of this military sect. Or similalry if it has a place in a univeristy. I was looking for intelligent posts.

Not "tut tut, well you should of voted".

Hurray for intellectual progression! Away with you...

[Serben]

What the hell are you whining about? This was a democratic decision. If you don't like it, move to some 3rd world dictatorship. Like someone mention previously, you had your chance to vote it down. But you were either too stupid or too lazy, or both, to even bother voting. And now you complain because more intelligent and motivated people than you used their democratic rights and took part in the democratic process. Well, tough s.hit. You didn't vote, so you don't have the right to complain.

[SorelusImperion]

I was asking for for views on the banning of this military sect.

I don't think so:

A year on, tomorrow is when we are taking a stand against this Nazism

You played the Nazi card at the very start of the thread without even the faintest trace of a real link between national socialist ideology and the event you described.
When you want an intelligent discussion you should write an intelligent post.

Does it have a place in a univeristy

That's up to the universitys to decide and obviously a decision was made. If you would come up with a reason why the ban was not justified other than "nazism" the thread may still have potential but at the moment it's a dead fish in the water.

[Vince Noir]

I was asking for opinions. Yours of which was utterly unhelpful. Thank you for that.

The voting was a farce. Certain individuals didnt turn up and it was organised behind certain individuals's backs. It should have been an for Tony Blair/Gordon Brown, not the UK armed forces. The personnel didn't make the decision to go to war, and the sacrifice they make whilst serving abroad on operations should be respected and remembered regardless of ones philosophical political opinions.

If the students wanted to cast a motion opposing an aggressive war, they should have done so politically.