Unit Heirarchy

[Sextus Molestus]

Hi, I'm new to XGM, and was wondering if there are any places where I can find a list of units categorized by type of weapon and ordered by strength (for the GCS). I ask this because it is more difficult to tell when all the units are grouped into one barracks (but don't get me wrong, I like the new system overall).

Also...I haven't conquered outside of Greece yet, still trying to beat off the Macedonians (eww), but when I build an auxiliary barracks, I don't see any new units to recruit. Why build these?

And at the last...I read something about colonies. Can someone explain these to me in depth?

[Stilgar CG]

In Greece, aux barracks will contain Greek units, which you are already able to recruit in main barracks (I suppose you play GCS). I am not aware of existence of any tools/guids (if this what you mean) that categorizes XGM units. Main classes are similar to those in vanilla, of course, but there are plenty of adjustments to vanilla unit hierarchy. The battle system is somewhat different, and is constantly evolving. I guess, you'll have to learn from practice

Edit: Just a few differences to name: phalanx is less powerful, missile units (archers, in particular) are no more overpowered as in vanilla, you'll find more heavy peltasts-type units (e.g., thorakitai) etc.

[Barend]

You can check in the building list witch barracks will give you wich type of unit, so you can check if it's worth it to make auxiliary barracks in a certain place.
Example: Illyrian peltasts are available on the first level IIRC, so you don't have to build the other levels.

[Sextus Molestus]

Thanks for the replies. When I right click the regular barracks, I see all the units I can recruit and whatnot, but then when I right click the auxiliary barracks, it doesn't say what units it'll allow me to recruit. Is this because there simply are no different units to recruit in Greece, given that it is my homeland? If so, will it say recruitable units in more distant lands?

Also, I started with some Athenian hoplites. When I right-click the city barracks, it says I can recruit all sorts of "city-based" hoplites, like Athenians, Syracusan, among others. Are these only recruitable in their home cities? If so, what other units are there like them that can only be recruited in certain cities?

And the whole colonies question still stands.

[CaesarVincens]

If you look at the read-me (which you can find from the download thread), you will find most if not all the answers you seek.

[Barend]

The auxiliary barracks: you're right, you can recruit local units when you're away from your homelands. In Greece (and western part of Asia Minor) you can recruit your Greek troops. City-specific hoplites can only be trained and recruited in their own cities.

The colonies make you able to build baraakcs that will allow you to train a greater variety of Greek troops, so you don't have to rely on local troops.
It also enables you to build more Greek buildings.

[Scutarii]

Since you're playing as Greece, you'll get no auxilaries in Greece itself. Once in Thrace/Illyria you'll get some good ones, and if you go far enough east you get some very good ones as well (Eastern Heavy Cav and Syrians rock).

Check the readme for the answers to all your questions, including the colonies. You can find it here.

[Balikedes]

Since you're playing as Greece, you'll get no auxilaries in Greece itself. Once in Thrace/Illyria you'll get some good ones, and if you go far enough east you get some very good ones as well (Eastern Heavy Cav and Syrians rock).

Check the readme for the answers to all your questions, including the colonies. You can find it here.

Going North you get the infamous Thracian Falxmen, Thracian peltast and Thracian cavalry, they're always fun to employ.

[Sextus Molestus]

Thanks very much, I had read the Read-Me before, but going back to it and rereading the section on colonies did help give me more insight than what I remembered on my first read-through.

If you don't mind me continuing this thread with a new question, I'd like to ask if there are any new public order dangers I should be aware of? Like in vanilla, I would have a lot of trouble with squalor, and in Mundus Magnus, I would have trouble with both squalor and distance to capital, and occasionally culture penalty but not so much.

Does the population breakdown contribute to public order in any way, or is it just the buildings that cause culture penalty still? And how would colonies cause public order problems, as said in the readme, like to what extent and in what field, and most importantly, how do I counter it?

I wouldn't know these things because I'm still trying to "throw off the Macedonian yoke"...I lost my entire field army defending Thebes from one of their full stacks, but held them just long enough so that by the time they got to and cleared the square, I rushed in with my last surviving unit (general), touched it to reset their timer, and won because they ran out of time. Haha!

[DimeBagHo]

The population breakdown causes disorder when there is a mismatch between the culture of the population and the culture of the local government.

For example, suppose you are playing a Greek faction, and you capture an Eastern region. When you first capture the region it is 100% eastern population, and the only culture building is "Eastern Natives", so the official culture is Eastern Civilized. Then you build a Greek colony. The official culture of the region will now switch to Western Civilized but the population will still be Eastern Civilised, and very unhappy. Depending on the balance of effects between culture buildings and neighboring regions, the population may stay Eastern Civilized, and unhappy, or it may start shifting towards Western Civilized, and start getting happier.

To avoid problems you need to make sure that when you build colonies you have enough troops, or a sufficiently influential governor, to avoid rebellion while the population adjusts. Alternatively you can use diplomats to shift the population balance in advance before a colony is completed.

[Sextus Molestus]

Thanks for clearing that up. If you have the time, could you possibly go into more detail about using the diplomats to shift the population balance? I don't recall reading about that before.

From what I've played so far, it's a great mod; I love how I can treat each city state differently as the Greeks.

[Scutarii]

Ever played BI? In XGM, each diplomat recieves a 5% conversion bonus towards your culture, akin to the 5% conversion bonus that family members got in BI (FM's also get this is XGM, diplo's are extra). So stacking 5 or 6 diplo's in a city will convert it fairly quickly (bonus of 25-30%), depending on the city.

Start building the colony, then put some diplo's in the province, enough that your culture's influence is about 5-10% more than the opposing culture's. By the time the 8 turn colony is built, you should be about halfway, maybe 70%, giving an optimal transition over to you culture.

[Stilgar CG]

Ever played BI? In XGM, each diplomat recieves a 5% conversion bonus towards your culture, akin to the 5% conversion bonus that family members got in BI (FM's also get this is XGM, diplo's are extra). So stacking 5 or 6 diplo's in a city will convert it fairly quickly (bonus of 25-30%), depending on the city. ...

So, this trick with an army of diplomats does not work on Alex.exe?

[Scutarii]

So, this trick with an army of diplomats does not work on Alex.exe?

It still works. I was just comparing it to the conversion bonuses the FM's get in both BI and XGM.

[Barend]

Keep in mind that the Ptolemaic diplomats are NOT western civilized, they are eastern civilized. This makes swithcing culture with the Ptolemies a little bit more difficult.

[Sextus Molestus]

No, sorry, all I've ever played is vanilla and vanilla with MM. THat's a very interesting feature, and gives new use to the dipomats; I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks for the help, everyone!

Umm, about what Barend said, does capturing the Great Pyramid at Memphis eliminate public order penalty from population breakdown, as it did culture penalty in vanilla (for Egyptian buildings, that is)? Does culture penalty from buildings still exist even, or is it replaced by population breakdown penalty? Or (gulp), are they both there?

[DimeBagHo]

Umm, about what Barend said, does capturing the Great Pyramid at Memphis eliminate public order penalty from population breakdown, as it did culture penalty in vanilla (for Egyptian buildings, that is)? Does culture penalty from buildings still exist even, or is it replaced by population breakdown penalty? Or (gulp), are they both there?

The original culture mechanism still works, and yes the Pyramids still eliminate the culture penalty for Egyptian settlements. They don't do anything for the extra culture mechanism in XGM though.

[Sextus Molestus]

Alright, thanks for all the help, then! Time to get back to killing Thracians.

[Scutarii]

They're both there. The Pyramids serve the same purpose, IIRC. Or they've been nerfed/eliminated, I can't seem to remember... I don't conquer Egypt much.

[Stilgar CG]

I see, Scutarii. Thanks.

Btw, have you noticed changes in the ranks. Those are in a striking contrast with the previous "ranks". I've been downgraded from baron to bla bla Sergeant thing . Scutarii and DBH, you were almost equal to kings, now you are mere colonels . Well, I guess we should not complain, some guys were turned into Drummers and Fifiers.