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  1. #1
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    Default The British Civil War 2009

    The British Army is engaging in a pseudo civil war, fighting against staggering numbers of their own countrymen enlisted in the Taliban.

    British soldiers are engaged in "a surreal mini civil war" with growing numbers of home-grown jihadists who have travelled to Afghanistan to support the Taliban, senior Army officers have told The Independent.

    Interceptions of Taliban communications have shown that British jihadists – some "speaking with West Midlands accents" – are active in Helmand and other parts of southern Afghanistan, according to briefing papers prepared by an official security agency.

    The document states that the numbers of young British Muslims, "seemingly committed jihadists", travelling abroad to commit extremist violence has been rising, with Pakistan and Somalia the most frequent destinations.

    MI5 has estimated that up to 4,000 British Muslims had travelled to Pakistan and, before the fall of the Taliban, to Afghanistan for military training. The main concern until now has been about the parts some of them had played in terrorist plots in the UK. Now there are signs that they are mounting missions against British and Western targets abroad. "We are now involved in a kind of surreal mini-British civil war a few thousand miles away," said one Army officer.

    Somalia is also becoming a destination for British Muslims of Somali extraction who have started fighting alongside al-Qa'ida-backed Islamist forces. A 21-year-old Briton of Somali extraction, who had been brought up in Ealing, west London, recently blew himself up in the town of Baidoa, killing 20 people. The head of MI5, Jonathan Evans, has raised the worrying issue of British citizens being indoctrinated in Somalia, and Michael Hayden, the outgoing head of the CIA, warned that the conflict in the Horn of Africa had "catalysed" expatriate Somalis in the West.

    But it is in Afghanistan that British forces are now directly facing fellow Britons on the other side. RAF Nimrod aircraft flying over Afghanistan at up to 40,000ft have been picking up Taliban electronic "chatter" in which voices can be heard in West Midlands and Yorkshire accents. Worryingly for the military, this has increased in the past few months, with communications picked up by both ground and air surveillance, showing the presence of more British voices in the Taliban front line.

    The men involved are said to try to hide their British connections but sometimes "fall back" into speaking English. One senior military source said: "We have been hearing a lot more Punjabi, Urdu and Kashmiri Urdu rather than just Pashtu, so there appears to be more men from other parts of Pakistan fighting with the Taliban than just the Pashtuns who have tribal allegiances with the Afghan Pashtuns. It is this second group, the Urdu, Punjabi speakers etc, who fall back into English in, for example, Brummie accents. You get the impression that they have been told not to talk in English but sometimes simply can't help it."

    Some of the British Muslims had originally trained in Pakistan to commit attacks in Kashmir. But security sources say the rising threat of Indian retribution, especially after the Mumbai attacks, had led to the Pakistani government curbing the activities of the Kashmiri separatist groups, so the fighters are being switched to Afghanistan. The numbers involved in Afghanistan, the intelligence document shows, are relatively few, dozens rather than hundreds, but the pattern of involvement is described as a cause for concern.

    Last week, during a visit to Helmand, the Foreign Secretary, David Milliband, was shown Taliban explosive devices containing British-made electronic components. An explosives officer said the devices had either been sent from Britain, or brought over to the country. They ranged from remote-control units used to fly model airplanes to advanced components which could detonates bombs at a range of more than a mile.

    Evidence of British Muslims fighting inside Afghanistan and training in insurgent camps in Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas has been provided to the UK authorities by the Americans. The US has significantly stepped up its surveillance inside Pakistan as part of a more aggressive policy including cross-border raids by unmanned Predator aircraft.

    The Americans are said to have raised the issue of the Pakistan connection, complaining that the UK is not doing enough to curb radical Muslims. The US pointed out that this threatens their own security because UK passport holders can get into the US under the visa waiver programme. The Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, the chairman of the Commons' sub-committee on anti-terrorism, which has been examining the activities of British Muslim extremists, said: "We know the problem we have with UK-based jihadists. We also know that a number of them have been arrested trying to leave the country. With the UK intelligence services at full stretch, it is not surprising some of these jihadists had ended up in Afghanistan."

    Brigadier Ed Butler, the former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said British Muslims were fighting his forces. "There are British passport holders who live in the UK who are being found in places such as Kandahar," he said. "There is a link between Kandahar and urban conurbations in the UK. This is something the military understands but the British public does not."
    Robert Emerson, a security analyst who has worked in South Asia, said: "There is ample evidence that British Muslims had trained in camps in Pakistan. What is emerging now is a picture of them being more active in Afghanistan, either providing support and logistics or in active service. The numbers are not particularly large, but it is worrying."

    Jonathan Evans, of MI5, said the number of extremists wanting to travel to Iraq had "tailed off significantly" as Britain begins the drawdown of its troops in the country. But there was "traffic" into Pakistan and Afghanistan. "What happens in Afghanistan is extremely important because what happens there has a direct impact on domestic security in the UK," he said. "Pre-2001, they were able to establish terrorist facilities and to draw hardened extremists and vulnerable recruits to indoctrinate and teach techniques. If the Taliban is able to establish control over significant areas, there is a real danger that such facilities will be re-established."

    Last week, as Barack Obama ordered 17,000 extra US troops into Afghanistan, a confidential Nato report revealed that more than 30 per cent of the population believed the government of President Hamid Karzai had lost control of the areas in which they live and much of that has slipped back into Taliban control.
    Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the phenomenon that has crippled Britain's muslim community. These brand new rules which have been invented by some old random angry men. Taken as gospel by fools and traitors. Muslims have served in Britain's army for 300 years. Why the hell does a random racist idiot, who probably wasn't born here, have the right to say otherwise?

    It pains me to know that 4,000 of my fellow Muslims enlist in the Taliban yet only 400 enlist in her majesty's forces. It disgusts me to know that it is considered taboo for a Muslim to join the Army, but one who joins the Taliban is hailed as a hero by some Muslims.

    The way it goes is that any Muslim who joins the British Army is a traitor, and is sent to ''kill other Muslims''. Man, does it piss me off when I hear that. Who has killed more Muslims, the British Army...or Islamists? Even if we added up the number of Muslims Britain has ever killed in 300 years, by accident or on purpose, we wouldn't even get the number of Muslims killed by Islamists in the last two decades.

    In 8 years alone I saw the country of my parents raped and savaged, and with 200,000 dead, all at the behest of Islamists. Afghanistan has been raped over the last decade with the death of millions, all by Islamists. Chechnya? raped by Islamists too.

    The simple fact is for propagandist racist Muslim Britons, and all you you bastards abroad who believe in the above, encourage it and revel in it. If you want to see the guilty men, the people who are most responsible for the deaths of Muslims over the last 60 years, you need only look in the mirror.

    If you're Muslim and are angry at the Afghan war. Stop for a minute and ask your self why are you angry?
    "Britain is killing Muslims!" - Then why join their executioners, the Taliban, before their liberators?
    "Britain is destroying Afghanistan!" - Then why join the side responsible for the damage, rather than the side which is rebuilding?
    "We want to show solidarity with and free the Afghan people!" - Then why do you not join the side with more Afghans in it?

    Treachery is very much against Islam. Betraying your people and country in the process of dismantling your religion with the aim of the intentional murder of innocent people, and this case innocent Muslims, is the greatest crime of all.

    God-damn you Judas', god-damn you all to the deepest most inner circle of hell, reserved especially for traitors.
    Last edited by Каие; February 25, 2009 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Despicable traitors Are the radicals really this powerful in Britain?

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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Despicable traitors Are the radicals really this powerful in Britain?
    They are allowed to preach all the hate they want in public

  4. #4
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    I agree wholeheartedly with you Rome, this is indeed very disheartening news.

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    bomberboy's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    I wouldn't call it a civil war really, we're fighting traitors.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberboy View Post
    I wouldn't call it a civil war really, we're fighting traitors.
    I think you'll finds that is the exact definition of a civil war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    I agree Rome...This was a grand opportunity for the Muslim Community, and those idiots blow it. If the Muslim community rallies in support of the War in Afghanistan and shows they are British first, it has to help them in their attempts to show others of their Britishness...
    It's not about supporting the war in Afghanistan, as it's not fair to demand of someone to support a war he does not believe in to prove any kind of loyalty, or prove anything for that matter. Neither is this about being British or Muslim first, this concept does not exist to us.

    This is a simple matter of principle. Loyalty and Honour. The betrayal of both your own country, and your fellow Muslims in Afghanistan by joining their executioners to kill Afghans and also your fellow passport holders.

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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe ♠ kb8 View Post
    This is a simple matter of principle. Loyalty and Honour. The betrayal of both your own country, and your fellow Muslims in Afghanistan by joining their executioners to kill Afghans and also your fellow passport holders.
    True.

    I was more referring to the providing of lessons on Islam to the soldiers and food stuff to them more than supporting the war directly.

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    antares24's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    mmm if a few dozens british muslims were going to Pakistan, Afganistan or Somalia that would be bad but one could dismiss it as a few bad apples, but 4000 of them?

    It is quite clear that to have such a number there must be an organization (or several of them) indoctrinating and recruiting, and the fact that so many do this mean that they're having a great success.

    And the scary thing is that British citizens can travel freely across the EU, and with little hassle to the USA...if British citizens start to make terrorist attacks in Europe and the USA that would be a real problem...

    Apart from this, these people are disgusting, they're offered an opportunity to live in a western state and what they do? They go to fight against their own countrymen.....and for what?

    I hope that the Uk secret service manage to dismantle these recruitment centers and that the British muslim community do something about this. If they're british citizen they should be loyal to their state, period.
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    bomberboy's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by antares24 View Post
    If they're british citizen they should be loyal to their state, period.
    True.
    Apart from this, these people are disgusting, they're offered an opportunity to live in a western state and what they do? They go to fight against their own countrymen.....and for what?
    They're fighting for terrorists who don't care about a single muslim or non-muslim life they're given false infomation and indoctrinated. I know this may sound harsh but we can't give these traitors a second chance.
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    bomberboy's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe ♠ kb8 View Post
    I think you'll finds that is the exact definition of a civil war.
    I guess I'm mixed up but seriously they're making the muslim community look bad by fighting with terrorists and it'll just make things more complicated.

    I had no idea there was that kind of british support for my countries adventures oversees. i thought blair got you all in this pickle and your going to make a break for it asap.
    I didn't say anything about support or tony blair, I got my facts mixed up thats all. I don't support the war I'm against it.
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    Gertrudius's Avatar Hans Olo
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Wow, excellent post Rome. I couldn't agree more and I can't think of anything to add. +rep

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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe ♠ kb8 View Post
    It's not about supporting the war in Afghanistan, as it's not fair to demand of someone to support a war he does not believe in to prove any kind of loyalty, or prove anything for that matter. Neither is this about being British or Muslim first, this concept does not exist to us.

    It is about supporting the war, because in the end, as a Muslim, how can you support the Taliban?

    That is where the disconnect happens. Muslims have to get beyond this victim complex where they see Afghanistan as some imperial conquest based on revenge. It isn't. Its about making the world a safer place, and acknowledging that would do a massive amount of good. Nobody in their right mind could think that leaving it to fester would have been a good idea.

    How cant you believe in that, and show support for that?

    And honestly Rome, how can you argue that the UK doesn't have a problem with radicals on their own soil, and then post this? They don't come home and simply slip back into life. Its not about fighting for Afghan's, because understand this, the vast, vast majority of hem never supported a foreign Arab invader dictating their lives to them.
    Last edited by mrmouth; February 26, 2009 at 02:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnabyJones View Post
    It is about supporting the war, because in the end, as a Muslim, how can you support the Taliban?

    That is where the disconnect happens. Muslims have to get beyond this victim complex where they see Afghanistan as some imperial conquest based on revenge. It isn't. Its about making the world a safer place, and acknowledging that would do a massive amount of good. Nobody in their right mind could think that leaving it to fester would have been a good idea.

    How cant you believe in that, and show support for that?
    All completely wrong and misleading. I opposed the war in the Iraq, does that make me pro-Arab nationalism, pro-genocide, pro-Baath and Saddam? I will also oppose any war on Iran. What will that make me?

    In America, your government already fooled most of the people into believing that they attacked you on 9/11 because they hate your freedom, and in the nationalist orgies which emerged prior to Iraq, there came about a concept of "You're either with us, or against us". So in your eyes one who does not support the war, may be for the other side....but no there in the UK.

    That concept does not exist. Otherwise, like I said earlier, you're calling almost 69% of the White British population pro-Taliban and traitors, for they too oppose this war.

    Or is it only Muslims who have to support it? Puh-lease. This thought pattern is not really helping the issue I ranted about in the OP, it is actually the cause of it.

    And honestly Rome, how can you argue that the UK doesn't have a problem with radicals on their own soil, and then post this? They don't come home and simply slip back into life. Its not about fighting for Afghan's, because understand this, the vast, vast majority of hem never supported a foreign Arab invader dictating their lives to them.
    A couple of things here.
    a. The kids who fight for the Talibs are PAKISTANI, not Arab. Read the article.
    b. They are trained in PAKISTAN.
    c. The Taliban is largely based in PAKISTAN now.
    d. The US is attacking PAKISTAN.

    You see where this is going? They think they are defending Pakistan.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberboy View Post
    I wouldn't call it a civil war really, we're fighting traitors.
    I had no idea there was that kind of british support for my countries adventures oversees. i thought blair got you all in this pickle and your going to make a break for it asap.



    oh yea true true. the son of the berkely professor right?

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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    ^^^The Cavaliers called the Round-heads traitors. I am probably sure the Union called the Confederates traitors. Every civil war has 'traitors'
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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    I agree Rome...

    This was a grand opportunity for the Muslim Community, and those idiots blow it. If the Muslim community rallies in support of the War in Afghanistan and shows they are British first, it has to help them in their attempts to show others of their Britishness...

    Hell I don't think any Japanese Civil Rights movement did as much as the 442nd RCT in advancing the Japanese into American society.
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    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    A mailed, iron-clad boot should be stamped down on the faces of these radicals. Forever.

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  18. #18

    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Geert wilders is going to love that one. apperantly the US just picked up its first terrorist with US citizenship, i think he was a somali. I suppose what goes around comes around. cant not overthrow a muslim empire to exploit its inhabitants economically and not expect a little payback even if it is 200 years later. Looking forward to doing it in Empire

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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    ^^Nice to see you have faith

    We didn't like Iraq. Most people support Afghanistan
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    Default Re: The British Civil War 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    ^^Nice to see you have faith. We didn't like Iraq. Most people support Afghanistan
    Not true. 66% of Britons oppose the war in Afghanistan.

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