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  1. #1

    Default SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Updated 3/1/09 with Version 0.82 beta
    SavageAI is a new campaign AI designed to be much more aggressive, unpredictable, and challenging than Lusted's, without being reckless or stupid. I originally planned just to tweak Lusted's AI, but eventually just rebuilt the entire AI from scratch.

    Features of SavageAI

    Difficulty Scaling - More than any other AI, there are significant differences in difficulty level. On Very Hard the AI will be much more aggressive toward the player than on Normal, and it will also be somewhat more difficult to make alliances.

    Stack Merging - Much attention has been paid to minimizing small AI stacks and ensuring that the AI concentrates its forces into larger stacks. (To some extent this is unavoidable but it has been minimized as much as possible.)

    Invasion Planning - The AI no longer launches last minute, ill-planned invasions. It will "plan" the invasion and gather its armies into a superior force before invading. Even when you're at war, the AI will generally NOT respond with an endless stream of small, ineffective counterattacks. Instead, it will usually wait a turn or two and then launch a larger, more effective counterattack.

    Naval Invasions - If the AI has reason to invade a non-neighboring faction, it can and will launch a naval invasion.

    Better AI Garrisons - The AI will more frequently defend its settlements properly with significant garrisons.

    Semi-Stable Alliance Blocks - In SavageAI, alliances have a big impact on deciding who to invade. Your allies will back you up (usually), and you can expect attacks from the allies of your enemies (usually). (Of course, other factors play a role. For example, it's less likely that your ally will back you up if your ally is already distracted by multiple wars at home.) That said, alliance blocks are not 100% stable, as allies can backstab each other depending on strategic considerations.

    Greater Emphasis on Strategic Considerations - In addition to faction relationship and troop strength along the border, SavageAI also considers larger strategic factors when deciding who to attack, such as whether a faction is thinly stretched with many enemies or not (regardless of the border garrisons). For example, let's say Venice is considering an invasion of Hungary. If Hungary is at war with the Byzantines and the Kievan Rus, Venice is more likely to invade than if Hungary isn't fighting another war. One result of this is that the AI's aggressiveness toward you, the player, will to some extent be determined by your playstyle. If you "turtle" by maintaining good, peaceful relations with your neighbors, defending your settlements well, and building strong alliances, then you're probably not the best target for the AI and they'll be more likely to turn elsewhere. But if you overstretch your resources and start invading your neighbors, you better leave some armies on your "peaceful" borders or they won't be peaceful for very long.

    Alliances are Important, but Your Allies Can Still Backstab - AI allies will often attack your enemies and generally won't backstab you for no reason, so alliances are critical... But alliances are not set in stone, and your allies can turn against you depending on the strategic situation. The likelihood of allied backstabs is also dependent on faction relations and difficulty level.

    Faction Relations - While good relations are no guarantee that another faction will not attack you, in SavageAI (just as in the real world) they make a big difference. Maintaining good relations with your allies will help ensure that they stay loyal, but let relations with them deteriorate too much and they're far more likely to abandon you when you need them most. SavageAI now includes conditional relationship factors that affect whether relations improve or degrade over time based on the strategic situation (e.g. relations between Spain, Aragon and Portugal will be better while the Moors are on the Iberian peninsula, but may begin to degrade once the Moors have been driven out... thanks to Turbo for developing this idea). Even relations between historically friendly factions may begin to degrade if one faction grows too powerful.

    "Smart" AI Aggression Against Rebels - The AI will move quickly to invade rebel territories, but if they go to war with neighbouring factions, the AI will prioritize these wars over invasion of rebel territories.

    Reasonable Papal Behavior - Generally, the Papal States faction is passive and will not attack Catholics. If you're on the Italian peninsula, though, it's best to stay on the Pope's good side...

    My goal is to make SavageAI:
    1) the most challenging M2TW AI around
    2) enjoyable by the largest range of people, from "turtles" to "TOTAL WAR!" types

    Installation Instructions

    You can download the SavageAI .zip at the bottom of the page. As of now, SavageAI is only three files: descr_campaign_ai_db.xml, descr_diplomacy.xml and descr_faction_standing.txt. To install, simply copy these files over your current files in the /data directory. So for Stainless Steel, you would copy it in "..Program Files/SEGA/Medieval II Total War/mods/Stainless_Steel_6/data/". (Make sure to make a backup copy of the original copies of the three files.)

    SavageAI should work with just about every version of SS 6.x. That said, it was designed and tested on Gracul's RC releases with Real Recruitment/RC.

    If You Try SavageAI, Please Give Me Feedback

    This version is a beta version, so although it's fully functional and pretty challenging at times, it could still use some fine-tuning. So if you play with it and give me feedback, your input will definitely be used to help improve future versions.

    Please include the following information:
    1) What faction are you playing as?
    2) What difficulty setting?
    3) What campaign? (Early, Late, etc.)
    4) What mod or mods (e.g. SS 6.1, SS 6.2 RC4, RC4 w/Real Combat, etc.)

    Specific issues you might also want to comment on:
    -Did the AI request peace too quickly/often, or likewise was the AI intransigent and wouldn't accept peace even when it definitely should have?
    -Were AI invasions reasonable? Or were you frequently thinking "WTF is the AI doing?!"
    -Alliances: Too many or too few? Too strong or too weak?
    -AI vs. AI aggressiveness: Did the AI seem to be too aggressive toward other AI factions? Not aggressive enough?
    -Did you find the AI challenging? What do you think would make the AI more challenging?

    Note on Early Era Campaign:
    At the start of the Early Era Campaign, nearly half the map is held by rebels, and many factions are completely surrounded by rebels. Generally, SavageAI will prefer to take over a nearby rebel regions rather than start a war with another faction. For this reason, at the start of the Early Era Campaign you may not see many wars starting during the first 20 or so turns because the AI is focusing on snapping up rebel regions. Once the AI runs out of easy rebel targets, however, then it will quickly turn its attention to other factions.

    Random Note on Forts with SavageAI:
    SavageAI works best if forts have been disabled. They are already disabled on many of the most popular mods for SS. If you have fort building enabled then no worries, it generally won't be a problem. But if you find that AI armies seem to get "stuck" in the forts (or else the AI doesn't seem to be garrisoning its settlements well and AI armies in forts are not coming to the rescue when those settlements are attacked), you may wish to consider disabling forts yourself. If you want to disable forts, you can do so by:
    1) Open up /data/descr_campaign_db.xml in your Stainless Steel folder. (Make a backup of this file first.)
    2) Find this line:
    <can_build_forts bool="true"/>
    3) Change it to:
    <can_build_forts bool="false"/>
    4) Save and close.

    Acknowledgments:
    Thanks to Lusted and CavalryCmdr for laying the groundwork for all AI modding with their research and discussions.
    Thanks to Turbo for many of the ideas used in the faction_standings file.
    Thanks to Niamad for use of much of his faction_standings file.
    Thanks to Quark and Gracul for creating the faction_standings file on which mine was based.
    Last edited by TheSavage; June 10, 2009 at 09:32 PM.

  2. #2
    loet66's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Hi Savage,

    Sounds very interesting.

    I don't know if this stuff is very good...maybe I will test it.

    Is it compatible with Gracul patch 6.2 RC4 ??

    Anyway, + REP FOR YOU !!

  3. #3

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by loet66 View Post
    Is it compatible with Gracul patch 6.2 RC4 ??
    Yes, I created and tested it mostly on Gracul's 6.2 RC4, and it IS savegame compatible.

  4. #4
    loet66's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Thanks.

    So, I will test it with pleasure !

  5. #5
    Devilmaypoop's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Sounds good. Gonna dl it

  6. #6
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Have DL'd am testing the 1100AD sub-mod - will report if it makes any difference
    (will start a new campaign for proper comparison.)

  7. #7
    wolfslayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    The kingdoms 1.5 exe contains an interesting variable for campaign_ai_db.xml that has never been used or discussed:

    min_entry...decision_entry..defend_decisions....
    invasion_decisions..name....faction_ai_label....
    merge_fort_priority_offset..invade_priority_assistance_offset...
    use_cheat_overrides.invade_priority_gs_modifier.
    invade_priority_fs_modifier.invade_priority_max.
    invade_priority_min.int.bool....float...
    trusted_ally_enemy_auto_war.trusted_ally_target_gs_threshold....
    trusted_ally_gs_threshold...trusted_ally_target_human_fs_threshold..
    trusted_ally_target_fs_threshold....


    These entries pasted directly from the exe are reverse of their order in the xml; offsets usually have "int" values.

    If this works, what the variables are and what it actually does, if it is functional, remains to be seen, but may possibly be meant to address "stuck fort" issues..:hmmm:

    I've done a little bit of my own testing, with various values, and rarely see them get "stuck" , but stacks do sometimes use up movement points moving back and forth in and out of forts during a turn - but if the AI has superior force within range, they will come out, merge and attack, even if using "defend_fortified" as a default defend strategy.

    But nothing definitive yet where I could say it's definitely functional or what the best settings are.

    Will definitely check out your AI in my ongoing campaign, and "see what happens" ..lol.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfslayer View Post
    merge_fort_priority_offset
    Very very very interesting... Thanks for pointing this out. Once I get SavageAI tuned and add a faction_standings file, I'm going to do some experimentation with this. Please let me know what you find out.

    With just a few exceptions, I am using solely defend_fortified/invade_none for "peace footing" (generally not at war and no plans to invade) and solely defend_frontline/invade_buildup for "war footing" (usually at war or possible invasion), so defend_fortified is being used quite a bit. I agree that even with forts they will often come out either to invade or intercept invaders, but I still think the setting behaves better overall when there aren't any forts at all.

  9. #9

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfslayer View Post

    merge_fort_priority_offset..
    Wolf, forgot to ask, what effects have you seen when playing with merge_fort_priority_offset?

  10. #10
    Juli's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Sorry for not having feedback, but is this AI compatible with other mods and/or Vainilla?
    You just wasted 4 seconds of your life reading this sentence. You'll read it again because it was so funny and waste another 4. And since you read that sentence, some more disappeared, count this sentence and it's 'nother couple. Good job time waster!
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    My little Tolkien fan-fiction


  11. #11

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Juli View Post
    Sorry for not having feedback, but is this AI compatible with other mods and/or Vainilla?
    I think it should be compatible with vanilla but I'm not 100% sure. It depends on vanilla using the same AI profiles (default, catholic, papal_states, islam, pagan, mongol) as SS. Anybody know on this? You can certainly try it and let us know.

    As for other mods, it depends on whether they're using new AI profiles or just the ones SS uses. It should be compatible with all SS mods.

    It shouldn't screw anything up if you try it. Just make a backup and if you get errors then put back the old files and let us know.

  12. #12
    caralampio's Avatar Magnificus
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    This does not include that other submod that makes besieged garrisons pop up more troops out of nowhere right? Something weird happened last night... :hmmm:

  13. #13

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    TheSavage: What about making Slave faction also more aggressive? RIght now they most of the time just thand in one place and do nothing. Would be better if they tried to capture nearest setlement instead, or attack their enemies...

  14. #14

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    TheSavage: What about making Slave faction also more aggressive? RIght now they most of the time just thand in one place and do nothing. Would be better if they tried to capture nearest setlement instead, or attack their enemies...
    Will do. I'll look at Gracul's files. If he marked slave faction as default then I'll just change the slave faction entry a modified version of my default entry.

  15. #15
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    (fwiw the AI in RC4 has active rebels - I've had a settlement besieged and assaulted by a rebel army amongst other things. don't ask me how gracul did that!!)

  16. #16

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    i think he marked slave faction as a default instead of slave

  17. #17
    eatme's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    From the descriptions looks very promising !
    For feedback starters - Using SS6.2 RC4 with RR/RC. I ve played around 10 turns with Templar faction Early campaign. So probably I didn't have enough time to test out, since I didn't notice much difference in AI behavior. ALthough what I did notice being in war with Egyptian faction - the waves of onslaught are constant and tend to come in bigger stacks. And it may seem that much harder to obtain a truce. Having around 6 alliances mostly with catholic nations, I am yet to see one to help out by joining the war.

  18. #18

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by eatme View Post
    For feedback starters - Using SS6.2 RC4 with RR/RC. I ve played around 10 turns with Templar faction Early campaign. So probably I didn't have enough time to test out, since I didn't notice much difference in AI behavior. ALthough what I did notice being in war with Egyptian faction - the waves of onslaught are constant and tend to come in bigger stacks. And it may seem that much harder to obtain a truce. Having around 6 alliances mostly with catholic nations, I am yet to see one to help out by joining the war.
    Thanks for the comments. You are correct about the 10 turns... the first 8-10 or so turns the AI factions are more-or-less prevented from starting new wars because they'll all be going after rebel cities, so in some sense the AI is intentionally "frozen" for about 10 turns. This is necessary because otherwise the AI factions will immediately start fighting one another, which will either (1) prevent them for capturing the most obvious rebel territories, or (2) mean they'll be getting overrun from one side while they are attacking rebels on the other. I'd be very interested to hear what you think in another 30 turns.

    The same applies for allies helping allies. The special "early game" situation would generally prevent an ally from starting a war to help another ally. That said, I didn't mean to give the impression that because you're at war with Egypt all your allies will attack Egypt within 2 turns. It depends on other factors, with proximity being one of them. So an ally that borders your enemy is much more likely to help than an ally that doesn't.

  19. #19
    caralampio's Avatar Magnificus
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    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    50 turns into a game. Denmark, H/H. Early campaign, latest RR/RC.

    Rebels aren't as aggresive as I had noted with pleasure in Lusted's improved AI with typos fixed.

    There are no wars among same-religion factions. Except for a short skirmish between Scotland and England. The Pope has not excomm'd anyone, and has a very good opinion of all catholic factions.

    I made alliances with Norway and HRE. No backstabs so far. Furthermore, no neutral has attacked me. I suspect that if I had borders with Lithuania or Russia they would attack me, because different-religion wars have erupted elsewhere. But catholic Poland won't.

    In fact, I suspect that unless I start a war, there won't be any.

  20. #20

    Default Re: SavageAI Beta - New Campaign AI

    Quote Originally Posted by caralampio View Post
    50 turns into a game. Denmark, H/H. Early campaign, latest RR/RC.
    Thanks for the feedback. I am working on the rebel issue now and by the time 0.9b comes out they should be significantly improved.

    Are you playing with Gracul's RC version of Stainless Steel (6.2) or the "vanilla" version (6.0 or 6.1)?

    The AI in general should not be that passive. What version of my files do you have? (When did you download it, or what's the modified date on the file?) I will admit that most of my testing has been in Late Campaign, when there are fewer rebels. Older versions of my AI (though not the most recent files) had a strong preference for invading rebels that wasn't limited only to the first 10-15 turns, so it's possible that on Early Campaign factions are just focusing solely on rebels for too long. This issue has been resolved in the most recent files.

    Thanks for your feedback. I will look into the issues you mentioned. Please keep me posted on any further developments.

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