The US Defense Budget - Really worth the money?

[Holger Danske]

All though it's over a year old now I was still pretty chocked by the information presented in the short video.

It's not like it's any news that some programs are dead ends and essentially utter waste of money, but the three example shown here are just mind-blowing. Is the US Senate/Government doing anything to optimize the Pentagons seamlessly reckless spending on nothing, or do the defense contractors still enjoy the same level of freedom to essentially royally screw American taxpayers and more importantly, soldiers?

[Invisible Sky Magician]

royally screw American taxpayers and more importantly, soldiers?

The soldiers play a part in this.

To anyone who isnt a complete retard, the military exists to serve corporate interests and other rich ruling elite up top.

You would have to be a complete fool to think that the US military, the contractors and the mercenary exists to spread freedom and democracy.

You would have to be an even bigger fool to join the military as cannon fodder.

[Gelgoog]

You would have to be an even bigger fool to join the military as cannon fodder.

cannon fodder? You sir have no idea what your talking about. The military is an excellent form of employment. The opportunity to get a good paycheck, 3 hots and a cot, have your education paid for, and be able to retire by the age of 40 are awesome. Combine that with the fact that you can learn specialized skills that apply in the private sector and make alot of money coming out of the military. If you play your cards right, the military can be one of the best economic opportunities out there. There are plenty of fools out there who think the military has nothing to offer you but a body bag.

[Zephyrus]

The soldiers play a part in this.

To anyone who isnt a complete retard, the military exists to serve corporate interests and other rich ruling elite up top.

You would have to be a complete fool to think that the US military, the contractors and the mercenary exists to spread freedom and democracy.

You would have to be an even bigger fool to join the military as cannon fodder.

Contractor/merc should be lumped together. They take jobs away from the military, that's all that counts.

so...what you are saying is that the soldiers are missing out on equipment because of a lack of money which is being spent elsewhere?

If this is the case, we need to spend moar money on everything. Moar money for soldies, moar money for contractors, moar money for arms suppliers. This way, we know everyone is getting enough.

Ya, we need more money. The question is, how do we get it without putting ourselves into even more debt? We are already close to insolvency, thanks to predatory lending practices and your best friend in the USA the Federal Reserve. Which is privately owned.

And i firmly believe we should stop contracting and outsourcing jobs americans can do just as well.

[Sphere]

There are some serious problems in Defense spending. Even John McCain harped on it during the campaign. The problem is that contracting for new military equipment (especially large ticket items) is not a true free-market. In aero-space you reallly only have three competitors; Lockhead-Martin, Northrop Grumman and Boeing (aka McDonnell Douglass). The general practice is if one company gets a big contract, you have to give the next one to another firm to compensate (e.g. Stealth Fighter-Lockheed, Stealth Bomber-Northrop, JSF-Boeing made a big hissy fit when it lost to Lockheed).

[Heinz Guderian]

There are some serious problems in Defense spending. Even John McCain harped on it during the campaign. The problem is that contracting for new military equipment (especially large ticket items) is not a true free-market. In aero-space you reallly only have three competitors; Lockhead-Martin, Northrop Grumman and Boeing (aka McDonnell Douglass). The general practice is if one company gets a big contract, you have to give the next one to another firm to compensate (e.g. Stealth Fighter-Lockheed, Stealth Bomber-Northrop, JSF-Boeing made a big hissy fit when it lost to Lockheed).

Its similar over here with BAe Systems. Except at least you guys have a few to choose from. BAe can pretty much charge the UK Armed Forces anything. Monolithic, huge and corrupt. Even the yanks are investigating them for their military-industrial shenanigans. Thats not like yanks. Thats how bad BAe are.

[jankren]

Countless Americans are employed in the Defense sector. A lot of money is at stake.

[Invisible Sky Magician]

Countless Americans are employed in the Defense sector. A lot of money is at stake.

Imagine if society reached enlightenment and there was no longer such things as war.

That is a LOT of people without jobs!

[Heinz Guderian]

totally worth it. we beat the crap out of the taliban and iraq in no time. these were hard, well trained and totally well fed enemies. they were not rabble who may or may not have been malnourished and impoverished people. A-Stan may have been the poorest nation on earth in 2001, and iraq may have been crippled by a decade of sanctions, but we still kicked ass.

this is because of 1) God, and 2) trillion-dollar spending.

also, whilst i'm aroused, we need to spend all this money on the military to protect the continental US. Whats the point in spending billions on hospitals, schools and infrastructure when they might be taken over by 1) Islamofascists, 2) the Taliban, 3) the Anti-Christ?

I aint getting no tetanus shot by some d00d in a turban, no siree. Thats why we need moar B-52s.

[Holger Danske]

You are missing the point here!
The Pentagon is wasting billions of dollars on projects that either doesn't work or they really don't need because the contractors are taking advantage of the fact that the Bush Administration gave the Pentagon free hands to spend like there was no tomorrow. Given all the resources wasted on nothing the American soldiers are missing out on important equipment.
The problem is not the high budget, it's how much of it that is spent on virtually nothing.

[Heinz Guderian]

You are missing the point here!
The Pentagon is wasting billions of dollars on projects that either doesn't work or they really don't need because the contractors are taking advantage of the fact that the Bush Administration gave the Pentagon free hands to spend like there was no tomorrow. Given all the resources wasted on nothing the American soldiers are missing out on important equipment.
The problem is not the high budget, it's how much of it that is spent on virtually nothing.

so...what you are saying is that the soldiers are missing out on equipment because of a lack of money which is being spent elsewhere?

If this is the case, we need to spend moar money on everything. Moar money for soldies, moar money for contractors, moar money for arms suppliers. This way, we know everyone is getting enough.

[Holger Danske]

so...what you are saying is that the soldiers are missing out on equipment because of a lack of money which is being spent elsewhere?

If this is the case, we need to spend moar money on everything. Moar money for soldies, moar money for contractors, moar money for arms suppliers. This way, we know everyone is getting enough.

I'm sorry, but are you drunk atm?

What I'm saying is that the Pentagon (I don't know if they do it anno 2009) is wasting billions of dollars on gadgets that either dosn't work or they simply don't really need. R&D is one thing, and there will of cause be dead-end programs here, I'm aware of that, but why is it that just about every project in DoD burst it's initial budget by far and wide and somhow always gets delayed, sometimes even end up being cancelled due to piss poor management.

I mean I understand the contractors, as they're just doing what anyother corporation is: Milking as much and as hard as they can, while they can, but the Pentagon? Are they on crack all day long or just miserable with economics and rational management?

Just have a look here at some of the R&D programs and take note to the change in cost between 2007 and 2008... Chocking...

[gojira]

Add some more 2,300 Billions. Lol.
(coincidentially after they told public bout the 2,3trillion missing, some "terror attack" happens. Hmmm... anyways).

[edders]

Havn't watched the video yet, but even the best run, streamlined, pork-free defence budget is going to have countless examples of money being thrown down the drain in areas like R&D - it's the entire point behind them. Taking risks and staying competitive with other world powers - plenty of whom are trying to steal your own technology - is inevitably going to cost astronomical sums. Spending just to keep people employed is as stupid as spending money on a failing industrial plant so the workers won't lose their jobs, though.

[Icefrisco]

We should definitely scale back our defense money, especially on a lot of the new weapons. From what I've seen many of the new weapons the military is developing are strange, such as guns with computers on them. Why is that necessary? The M4 is perfectly ok. Its far better than any rifles used by our possible enemies.

[The Big Red 1]

The budget is fine what we're spending on it is fine. The crap pulled by the people making them is not fine. If they don't live up to expectations..drop them. Let's see if they reach deadlines next time. Do we just throw money at them and let them do what they want? We need to crack down hard on these guys.

By the way we need those F-22's get me them F-22's!

[gojira]

I think the thread tends in a wrong direction, this is not about wasting money, this is about stealing money.
2.3Trillion do not simply get lost, there must be channels where the money is dfirected to. Money NEVER disappears, it changes it´s location and it´s shape, but NEVER does it disappear.

[patrick1191]

The problem is greedy companies charging the government 300 bucks a bolt,or a thousand dollars for a hammer. They need to be watched over more and give detailed receipts.

[jankren]

Stop military aid to Israel is a good first step.

cannon fodder? You sir have no idea what your talking about. The military is an excellent form of employment. The opportunity to get a good paycheck, 3 hots and a cot, have your education paid for, and be able to retire by the age of 40 are awesome. Combine that with the fact that you can learn specialized skills that apply in the private sector and make alot of money coming out of the military. If you play your cards right, the military can be one of the best economic opportunities out there. There are plenty of fools out there who think the military has nothing to offer you but a body bag.

Meh, its not worth losing a limb or more.

[Gelgoog]

Stop military aid to Israel is a good first step.


Meh, its not worth losing a limb or more.

right because everyone who enters the military are given a rifle and sent to the front lines

Heck even those who are in iraq/afghanistan are in pretty good shape considering the mortality rate we've had, its by far the safest war/occupation we've been involved in. Even the first five or six years of occupying germany wasnt exactly a safe affair.