The Death of Free Speech?

[The Good]

Recently Holland enacted a law stating that it is an offense to bad mouth Islam. This is outrageous and will open the flood gates to other religions and groups. However this isn't an isolated case of free speech being trampled upon.

The UK, USA, and many European countries have become so politically correct that we are effectively shackling our discussions and the language we use. Free speech to me means that you can say whatever you like. This includes racist views, religious views, anti government views, holocaust denial or anything else. I don't agree with racism or holocaust denials but i will defend anyones right to say such things. That's what free speech is.

Why are we stopping people from saying what they want? Won't this just cause tensions when one group cannot criticise another? What about asking serious and pertinent questions when we aren't allowed to ask them because someone belongs to a certain group?

Free speech really seems to be dying, where will it go from here?

[Ahlerich]

so teaching your kid not to say bad words is killing freedom of speech as well?

[Antagonist88]

so teaching your kid not to say bad words is killing freedom of speech as well?

you can't compare it, islamization is a threat to the West, it must be possible to speak about this problem. Leftists and good-minders are simply afraid of those immigrated violent hordes, they prefer appeasement, abandonment of our culture and values (like free speech).

Free speech is a stupid idea. It only fuels tensions, it is basically saying 'I can hate people openly and get away with it'.

LOL. free speech is one of our most importand values! It isn't inciting hate, if you cricize Islam and the behaviour of its followers within our countries.

Of course if you are going to ask pertinent questions or truthful observations, then that is not hate inciting, but if you are going to say that the holocaust never happened and Hitler was an international hero who killed the vile Jews for us... are you honestly going to tell me that that is a good thing, that people are allowed to say such things? Look at Geert Wilders, people start honestly believing these hate-inciting lies if it is fed to them often enough and without any punishment, it is damaging the world far more than PC ever will.

&

its a myths that islamization is a threat to the west. whats the threat? shrinking membership in the catholic church?

Well basically Wilders is damn right. Koran is a violent book and most of its followers take it word for word serious. There may be moderate Muslims but no moderate islam. The numbers of islamists grow within our countries, they preach hate against the West to the muslim community. The quantity of "honor" kills, forced marriages, rapes of women, who don't wear the headscarf and hate crimes increase rapidly, while the numbers of ethnic f.e. Europeans decrease (demographic change).
If this isn't a threat to our community and culture, then you're ing blind!

[Ältester der Motten]

so teaching your kid not to say bad words

I wasn't aware there were "bad words", instead of people disappreciating the uasge of certain words in certain circumstances because they consider it indecent.


Ayway, this time I'll go and join Arty's party.

Full freedom of speech would conflict with other rights and laws.

The fundamental right to be a bloody whiny piece of ?

There's also a significant difference in foul-mouthing something and telling people how to construct a nuclear bomb with household material.
Bad one.

[Dr. Croccer]

The fundamental right to be a bloody whiny piece of ?

There's also a significant difference in foul-mouthing something and telling people how to construct a nuclear bomb with household material.
Bad one.

Slander, privacy, copyright, plagiarism, freedom of religion, equality, etc. I said full FoS, remember? No country has full FoS, let's not pretend that there are.

[Wolfgang von Zweibrücken]

so teaching your kid not to say bad words is killing freedom of speech as well?

No, but throwing your kid in jail for saying those bad words is.

[Dr. Croccer]

No, but throwing your kid in jail for saying those bad words is.

Depends on who it's aimed at.

[Copperknickers II]

Free speech is a stupid idea. It only fuels tensions, it is basically saying 'I can hate people openly and get away with it'. Of course if you are going to ask pertinent questions or truthful observations, then that is not hate inciting, but if you are going to say that the holocaust never happened and Hitler was an international hero who killed the vile Jews for us... are you honestly going to tell me that that is a good thing, that people are allowed to say such things? Look at Geert Wilders, people start honestly believing these hate-inciting lies if it is fed to them often enough and without any punishment, it is damaging the world far more than PC ever will.

[Enemy of the State]

Free speech is a stupid idea. It only fuels tensions, it is basically saying 'I can hate people openly and get away with it'. Of course if you are going to ask pertinent questions or truthful observations, then that is not hate inciting, but if you are going to say that the holocaust never happened and Hitler was an international hero who killed the vile Jews for us... are you honestly going to tell me that that is a good thing, that people are allowed to say such things? Look at Geert Wilders, people start honestly believing these hate-inciting lies if it is fed to them often enough and without any punishment, it is damaging the world far more than PC ever will.

And you know the absolute truth and can decide what is good and what is wrong?

[Sidmen]

Free speech is a stupid idea. It only fuels tensions, it is basically saying 'I can hate people openly and get away with it'. Of course if you are going to ask pertinent questions or truthful observations, then that is not hate inciting, but if you are going to say that the holocaust never happened and Hitler was an international hero who killed the vile Jews for us... are you honestly going to tell me that that is a good thing, that people are allowed to say such things? Look at Geert Wilders, people start honestly believing these hate-inciting lies if it is fed to them often enough and without any punishment, it is damaging the world far more than PC ever will.

It is a very troubling thing to have governments tell us what is "truth" and what is a lie. I prefer to have retards spewing hatred, you can always shake off words, you can't shake off government interference.

[Barry Goldwater]

Free speech is a stupid idea. It only fuels tensions, it is basically saying 'I can hate people openly and get away with it'. Of course if you are going to ask pertinent questions or truthful observations, then that is not hate inciting, but if you are going to say that the holocaust never happened and Hitler was an international hero who killed the vile Jews for us... are you honestly going to tell me that that is a good thing, that people are allowed to say such things? Look at Geert Wilders, people start honestly believing these hate-inciting lies if it is fed to them often enough and without any punishment, it is damaging the world far more than PC ever will.

I'd rather listen to some inbred hick from Alabammy go off with whatever's on his mind that have the government - or anyone else, for that matter - tell us what we can or can't say, thanks. Besides, if the hate-spewing nuts get on your nerves, just don't listen to them or whack them upside the head...is that so hard?

[The Dude]

First, I refer you to my sig.

Second, I agree that artificial limits should never be placed on what can and cannot be said. As I state in my sig, the limit of free speech should be common sense. One wants to cross that border? Then he should bear the consequences. We should not have some shoddy law put in place an artificial limit.

[Treize]

What law?

There is no special law for islam, lol.

Not yet...

[Copperknickers II]

It is a very troubling thing to have governments tell us what is "truth" and what is a lie. I prefer to have retards spewing hatred, you can always shake off words, you can't shake off government interference.

Maybe you can shake off words, but a large number of people listen and believe these things, simply because they don't know any better. We need to have some way of stopping them, we cannot just ignore them and hope they will go away: they won't, they will just become more of a problem.

[Yorkshireman]

Maybe you can shake off words, but a large number of people listen and believe these things, simply because they don't know any better. We need to have some way of stopping them, we cannot just ignore them and hope they will go away: they won't, they will just become more of a problem.

You want to stop people having a choice in what they believe?

[Jagdpanzer]

Recently Holland enacted a law stating that it is an offense to bad mouth Islam. This is outrageous and will open the flood gates to other religions and groups. However this isn't an isolated case of free speech being trampled upon.

BS. The Netherlands has no such law. Provide a reliable source for this, please.

[Treize]

BS. The Netherlands has no such law. Provide a reliable source for this, please.

Good thing I don't live in Holland, lol

[Admiral Piett]

Copperknickels, the very fact that you believe that is scary.

You'd just as soon be the type of person to support taking away individual rights for the benefit of society.

Clear violation of what is now considered a natural born human right to express themselves. No matter how uneducated, how poor, or what his political views are. Besides, there are worse things out there than people that don't believe in the Holocaust. Let them whither in their ignorance.

[Copperknickers II]

It is the Truth, Flim. I do not support taking away people's rights, but i do i support the protection of the more important rights. I don't know about you, but i think the right to live happy and free of disgusting insults to you based on your race or sexuality is more important that extreme free speech:

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Even if you bring Article 19 into this, that is still 3 to 1.

[The Dude]

It is the Truth, Flim. I do not support taking away people's rights, but i do i support the protection of the more important rights. I don't know about you, but i think the right to live happy and free of disgusting insults to you based on your race or sexuality is more important that extreme free speech.

I agree that free speech in its extremity doesn't work. There must always be limits. But only -once- these limits have been crossed should the problem be dealt with. Not before as then you might prevent the saying of things that actually direly need to be said.