So White People Are Mutants?

[jankren]

According to the theory of evolution the original normal human beings are black East Africans and the lighter the skin of a human being the more mutated he is which means that northern Europeans for example are the ultimate abnormal mutants! Yes?

Anyway, Anthropology class rulez and should be a mandatory subject in higher education because it totally enlightens our knowledge of humanity. But then again, good teachers are needed like mine.

[sdomi_cabsav@Hotmail]

er.... yes and er..... no.

[Juvenal]

According to the theory of evolution the original normal human beings are black East Africans and the lighter the skin of a human being the more mutated he is which means that northern Europeans for example are the ultimate abnormal mutants! Yes?

Yes, white skin is a mutation which enables the body to create enough Vitamin D with less sunlight, so it is an adaptation for living in the higher latitudes.

There are other adaptations, shorter limbs, blue eyes, turned-in lips, straighter hair, cystic fibrosis instead of sickle-cell anemia etc.

All of the modern racial groups are descendents and mutations of a primordial east African stock. This goes for modern East Africans just as much as modern Nordics. What colour skin did the common ancestor have? I don't think anyone knows, although brown is a good guess.

The use of the terms normal/abnormal and mutation as racial slurs are a little too 19th Century to be good Athenaeum material. Why don't you try introducing some actual science into your arguments?

[The Devil's Sergeant]

All of the modern racial groups are descendents and mutations of a primordial east African stock. This goes for modern East Africans just as much as modern Nordics. What colour skin did the common ancestor have? I don't think anyone knows, although brown is a good guess.

If you shave a monkey or a gorilla you see white skin. I don't know what that means, but it might mean something.

[Copperknickers II]

If you shave a monkey or a gorilla you see white skin. I don't know what that means, but it might mean something.

It means nothing, humans don't have hair and we split off from apes a very long time ago as far as recent mutations such as skin colour are concerned.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

It means nothing, humans don't have hair and we split off from apes a very long time ago as far as recent mutations such as skin colour are concerned.

It does suggest that the last human ancestor to be covered in hair had white skin.

[2-D Ron]

Yes, white skin is a mutation which enables the body to create enough Vitamin D with less sunlight, so it is an adaptation for living in the higher latitudes.

There are other adaptations, shorter limbs, blue eyes, turned-in lips, straighter hair, cystic fibrosis instead of sickle-cell anemia etc.

All of the modern racial groups are descendents and mutations of a primordial east African stock. This goes for modern East Africans just as much as modern Nordics. What colour skin did the common ancestor have? I don't think anyone knows, although brown is a good guess.

The use of the terms normal/abnormal and mutation as racial slurs are a little too 19th Century to be good Athenaeum material. Why don't you try introducing some actual science into your arguments?

If White and Black Skinned Humans switched places and we fast forwarded several thousand years we will see a similar mutation occur due to the Environmental changes.

Like Patrick Stewart?

Ha ha ha ha!
Mystery Solved!

[The Good]

According to the theory of evolution the original normal human beings are black East Africans and the lighter the skin of a human being the more mutated he is which means that northern Europeans for example are the ultimate abnormal mutants! Yes?

Anyway, Anthropology class rulez and should be a mandatory subject in higher education because it totally enlightens our knowledge of humanity. But then again, good teachers are needed like mine.

I'm probably in the minority here, but it seems to me that the theory of evolution appears to be at odds with the much embraced concept of human/racial equality. The Nazis even used aspects of evolutionary beliefs to their advantage (though I can tell by the topic title alone that this is speaking from the very opposite end of Nazi racial beliefs).

[Juvenal]

I'm probably in the minority here, but it seems to me that the theory of evolution appears to be at odds with the much embraced concept of human/racial equality. The Nazis even used aspects of evolutionary beliefs to their advantage

Well, the Nazis certainly gave a good practical demonstration of Natural Selection - they went extinct!

Their racial beliefs had a philosophical and mythical basis. This was bolstered by the development of the pseudo-science of Eugenics. If you are not convinced, just look at their methods for identifying the "Jewish race" (a concept that they invented).

http://www.shoaheducation.com/pNEW.html

German scientist developed methods of measurements that included

1)Skull formation and size;
2)Eye Color,
3)Facial Features,
4)Background histories, and even stature and other measures. They were essentially looking at the 'phenotype', or outward visible manifestations of 'jewishness'

Here is an excerpt from an article sumarising Nazi Ideology.

In formulating their ideology of race, Hitler and the Nazis drew upon the ideas of the German social Darwinists of the late 19th century. Like the social Darwinists before them, the Nazis believed that human beings could be classified collectively as “races,” with each race bearing distinctive characteristics that had been passed on genetically since the first appearance of humans in prehistoric times. These inherited characteristics related not only to outward appearance and physical structure, but also shaped internal mental life, ways of thinking, creative and organizational abilities, intelligence, taste and appreciation of culture, physical strength, and military prowess.
...

To define a race, the social Darwinists affixed stereotypes, both positive and negative, of ethnic group appearance, behavior, and culture as allegedly unchangeable and rooted in biological inheritance, immutable throughout time and immune to changes in environment, intellectual development, or socialization. For the Nazis, assimilation of a member of one race into another culture or ethnic group was impossible because the original inherited traits could not change: they could only degenerate through so-called race-mixing.

The Nazis defined Jews as a “race.” Regarding the Jewish religion as irrelevant, the Nazis attributed a wide variety of negative stereotypes about Jews and “Jewish” behavior to an unchanging biologically determined heritage that drove the “Jewish race,” like other races, to struggle to survive by expansion at the expense of other races.

[Osceola]

I'm probably in the minority here, but it seems to me that the theory of evolution appears to be at odds with the much embraced concept of human/racial equality. The Nazis even used aspects of evolutionary beliefs to their advantage (though I can tell by the topic title alone that this is speaking from the very opposite end of Nazi racial beliefs).

You will use anything and everything you think you bloody well can to try and push your hilarious religon , won't you?

Anyways Jankren I have to ask.. is this even remotely serious?

Also.. is there anything wrong with being a mutant? It seemed to work out for us, by the way your going, I assume every time you tan, your mutating yourself.

Newsflash, not enough sun to tan in some places of the honkey world. Try sunbathing in ing Scandinavia.

[The Good]

You will use anything and everything you think you bloody well can to try and push your hilarious religon , won't you?

Anyways Jankren I have to ask.. is this even remotely serious?

Also.. is there anything wrong with being a mutant? It seemed to work out for us, by the way your going, I assume every time you tan, your mutating yourself.

Newsflash, not enough sun to tan in some places of the honkey world. Try sunbathing in ing Scandinavia.

I never did mention religion in my message.

[Last Roman]

I'm probably in the minority here, but it seems to me that the theory of evolution appears to be at odds with the much embraced concept of human/racial equality. The Nazis even used aspects of evolutionary beliefs to their advantage (though I can tell by the topic title alone that this is speaking from the very opposite end of Nazi racial beliefs).

no, just because there may be some biological differences between me and an African from Nigeria, the idea of racial equality would dictate that we be treated the same despite those differences.

[Simetrical]

I dunno if you are suggesting environmental determinism here but as far as I know it has been proven to be false.

It has been demonstrated that skin color (in premodern times) was determined very strongly by climate. Any population in a hot climate with a lot of sunlight will get black skin to avoid things like sunburn and skin cancer, while populations in higher latitudes with less sunlight get light skin to avoid vitamin D deficiency. Eskimos are an exception, with ruddy skin despite their high latitude, because they get plenty of vitamin D from fish.

Of course, not everything is so neatly determined by environment, but skin color is, pretty much. I recall reading that it takes only a few thousand years (or was it a few hundred?) for a population to adapt to migration to a different latitude, indicating a very strong selection pressure.

Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_co...mental_factors

no, just because there may be some biological differences between me and an African from Nigeria, the idea of racial equality would dictate that we be treated the same despite those differences.

That's the key point to take home.

[jankren]

It has been demonstrated that skin color (in premodern times) was determined very strongly by climate. Any population in a hot climate with a lot of sunlight will get black skin to avoid things like sunburn and skin cancer, while populations in higher latitudes with less sunlight get light skin to avoid vitamin D deficiency. Eskimos are an exception, with ruddy skin despite their high latitude, because they get plenty of vitamin D from fish.

Of course, not everything is so neatly determined by environment, but skin color is, pretty much. I recall reading that it takes only a few thousand years (or was it a few hundred?) for a population to adapt to migration to a different latitude, indicating a very strong selection pressure.

During premodern time a black African couldnt survive in cold climate while white European couldnt survive in hot climate.

[removeduser_487563287433]

During premodern time a black African couldnt survive in cold climate while white European couldnt survive in hot climate.

That's absolutely and obviously false. White people have been thriving in large population centres in tropical areas of the globe since the 1500s. Individuals of both spectrums would have lived out their lives as happily in other climes. What an absurd post.

[Ludicus]

I recall reading that it takes only a few thousand years (or was it a few hundred?) for a population to adapt to migration to a different latitude, indicating a very strong selection pressure.

Indeed.
Positive selection/skin color:

Appearance
Among genes involved in the physical appearance of humans, the one with the longest story is MC1R, which is involved in skin and hair coloration. The MC1R gene encodes the melanocortin receptor, which regulates the production of eumelanin, a cause of black pigmentation. Mutations in the gene have been reported for many taxa in which coat color variation is observed, including rodents (74,75), cats (76), dogs (77), horses (78) and several primate species (79). As coloration has long been recognized as adaptive, it seems likely that changes in this gene are driven by positive selection. Indeed, in many of the non-human species in which the gene has been studied, coloration adaptations have been invoked as the driving selective force. In humans, however, the evolution of MC1R has not been credibly linked to adaptation.
Multiple studies have shown extensive polymorphism at the MC1R locus in human populations, most notably three separate mutations resulting in red hair in the Irish, Dutch and Swedes (80,81). However, there remains some question as to whether this polymorphism represents a relaxation of constraint on the gene outside of African populations or whether there is diversifying selection acting upon the gene. Arguing for the former is the observation that these polymorphisms are located exclusively outside of Africa, whereas the argument for the latter revolves around sexual selection (82). One possibility is that there exists an advantage to novelty in attracting mates and that with humans no longer relying on coloration for camouflage or protection against the sun, diversity was selected for. Although the answer is uncertain, it seems feasible that it lies as some combination of both relaxation of constraint and positive selection

Positive selection on the human genome -- Vallender and Lahn 13 ...

[Event Horizon]

Of course, not everything is so neatly determined by environment

Yes it is, ignorance of the precise details of environmental factors does not change the fundamental accuracy of the principle of evolution through natural selection.

[Simetrical]

That's absolutely and obviously false. White people have been thriving in large population centres in tropical areas of the globe since the 1500s. Individuals of both spectrums would have lived out their lives as happily in other climes. What an absurd post.

Of course they could survive, but less comfortably and healthily than those with a more appropriate skin tone. Thus the strong selection pressure.

Yes it is, ignorance of the precise details of environmental factors does not change the fundamental accuracy of the principle of evolution through natural selection.

I don't know how you got from "not everything is so neatly determined by environment" to "the fundamental accuracy of the principle of evolution through natural selection". I never questioned natural selection, I just said that it wasn't always so neat as in the case of human skin color.

In fact, though, not all evolution is caused by external environmental factors like sunlight. Some isn't caused by natural selection at all, but by other factors, like genetic drift. Some natural selection, furthermore, isn't driven by any kind of external pressure, but by things like sexual selection, which have nothing to do with adaptation to an external environment.

[DJOSD]

It has been demonstrated that skin color (in premodern times) was determined very strongly by climate. Any population in a hot climate with a lot of sunlight will get black skin to avoid things like sunburn and skin cancer, while populations in higher latitudes with less sunlight get light skin to avoid vitamin D deficiency. Eskimos are an exception, with ruddy skin despite their high latitude, because they get plenty of vitamin D from fish.

Of course, not everything is so neatly determined by environment, but skin color is, pretty much. I recall reading that it takes only a few thousand years (or was it a few hundred?) for a population to adapt to migration to a different latitude, indicating a very strong selection pressure.

Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_co...mental_factors

That's the key point to take home.

Erm... wouldnt that mean that eskimos should be black black blackest black - to absorb the suns heat? I mean they've probably been there for a thousand years or more? As far as I'm aware the Innuits are from the same 'family' as the people of Siberia? (Having moved north over the North Pole and then south into the Americas.) Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Copperknickers II]

According to the theory of evolution the original normal human beings are black East Africans and the lighter the skin of a human being the more mutated he is which means that northern Europeans for example are the ultimate abnormal mutants! Yes?

Um... no. Modern Ethiopians are just as different to original homo sapiens as white Europeans are, just not outwardly. Evolution is mutation, there is no such thing as a 'mutant race'.