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Thread: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

  1. #161
    Dazo's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by DjAci View Post
    Great Ideas Many likes to you!!!

    1. If the current skirmishers are indeed skirmishers, I still support Jean=A=Luc's idea. Make one light spearmen (with bucklers), and snaga archers light javelinmen with bucklers

    2. I was doing some thinking over OoMM just now. I am on the verge of making another BIG post with my solution to the OoMM (mostly for a later release) as I did with some proposals for Silvan elves. I totally concur (for future release i hjave to say), make a model of a goblin in scavanged dwarven armor. Maybe with helms resembling the head of a Balrog. They did fear and worship it, so their elite could use it. In such armor 2 units could be made. First would be armored 2H axmen. Being so well armored gives them confidence that they can give to their lesser kin. They could be made with "Inspires nearby troops" trait. The other one would be the so many times mentioned crossbowmen. Not as good as dwarven original, but in such great numbers they would be even more damaging in range. Finally the model could be used for bodyguards.

    3. I like the idea. Alternative is giving them along with typical warg riders a unit of unmounted wargs. That would be more of a cavalry unit if we would feel they need more cavalry. Both would not be easy to do though.

    May I use this to suggest one more thing. OoMM should have warg riders most definatly. Due to their conncetion with the wargs, their tradition, and gameplay they should be superior to those of Isengard. How about giving them javelins like mounted skirmishers making them both melee and ranged cavalry. (but not the vareity with just 2 spears per unit to throw before charge, but real skirmish unit)

    4. Superb idea. The morale lacking OoMM would have great use of it. Maybe more than one troll per unit though (you cant kill the standard with arrows, but troll...) and maybe some goblins around them as guards.

    5. Maybe not necessery but most certainly welcome. If they can be made to throw stones, it would be the awsome (and very necessery in that case imo). If that is to difficult to make, I already suggested that OoMM could also loot those special Dwarven ballistas.


    Yay !

    - My favourite faction preview ! First thx to KK who put "notalotoftime" in it (well what would have been the result if he had more time ).
    - Anyway, they're not the best modelled faction but they're playable and your great models (awesome trolls) are a very good start for any later upgrade . Heavy armored units look fantastic too.
    - Many good suggestions above too, I red all the posts and was happy to find N°85 page 5 to sum up all ideas before I was lost in the flow, thx !
    - Some general thinking about OoMM:
    0.
    For tunnels, choices are scarce:
    * I agree they can't build more than dirt roads so you can:
    * Made it a special upgradable building for OoMM settlements giving movement/trade bonuses as for normal roads (vanilla events like "disaster" on your roads still could work but trade losses from dirt roads will be limited). A +1 siege defense bonus by level would be good too (they know they can flee to safety or receive reinforcements using hidden ways). It could have 3 levels:
    - exploration/small tunnel (galleries)
    - communication/medium tunnel (tunnels)
    - strategic/great tunnel (undergound network)
    * Give OoMM paved highways/stone roads between their initial settlements (they won't be able to build them anywhere else)
    * It's also a good idea for an ancillary like "tunnel expert" who will give siege attack, siege points and management bonuses. I'll thought of it in the ancillary thread.
    1.
    * Nothing much to add. Perhaps about units' name... Something like "tunnel guard/wardens" or "daylight patrol" for light units guarding tunnel exits if you add/need some more customization but that's just a detail.
    2.
    * I'll gladly read that big post . I agree with all ideas but I'd add that for bodyguards units their numbers could be the same as regular units, that would make goblin generals harder to kill thus preventing the usual routing chain to happen quickly.
    * There is also the choice to give goblins more generals: right at the beginning, by giving them an easier "man of the hour" event = automatic promotion for any victorious captain or just by "birth rate". This will also prevent an early faction collapse due to the lack of leaders. I believe "royal blood" system and leadership inheritance can be suppressed for this faction and any general can take the throne if vacant (means that leader of the strongest tribe takes command in my mind).
    3.
    * Unmounted wargs or skirmisher mounted wargs would be great if not to hard to be done. I'm not sure about AOR final map but having a "warg" ressource limited to some areas would be great (as for mumakil). Let's say Misty Mountains settlements (OoMM and Isengard beginning settlements with any other mountainous settlement nearby).
    * You can also build them right from the beginning but in smaller numbers (increase with each building level, ex: 3 levels with 80, 160, 240 or 60, 120, 240). It'll simulate the ressources and time needed to "organize" (mostly getting able riders in sufficient numbers) such units.
    4.
    * Yes they have low morale but that doesn't count if they're "entrenched" in their forts/settlements (automatic rally near flagged plazas). Add some great goblin general, one troll unit plus some drums and it's YOUR (player) morale that'll go down . Plus, if defending in mountains, they'll often get the higher ground, meaning no cavalry charge at all and equal or better archery range to "rain" units below them (even elves) with anything they can throw.
    * That leads to the following idea: they've the manpower so they can build low level battlefield defences very quickly. You can give some units (ligth ones) this ability (like fences/pikes for peasants in vanilla) since most of them arn't disciplinated well enough to take elaborated battlefield formations. It will add to their defensive thoughness.
    * It's also a good ancillary idea: Moria drum(mer)s giving troop morale to generals spending some time in Moria (after living with the Balrog, they won't be afraid of many things ). I'll tought of it in the appropriate thread.
    5.
    * Either way is fine for me but if they can capture dwarves special ballistas they'll need a new unit to use it (I believe it's some more work ).
    * The other thing you can do is giving them siege points bonuses so they'll be able to build a lot of ladders/wooden towers with their large number. Even if garrison's units are strong, they can't defend all the walls and they'll just be outnumbered and forced to fight inside the city. Thus ballistas (even special ones) would be of lesser use.

    That's all.
    Last edited by Dazo; February 24, 2009 at 10:01 AM.

  2. #162
    carth's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    great preview! still hope that in the future some variety could be added! like (wild) wargs or something? like the romans used wardogs?

    still great!
    "By the blood of our people, your lands kept safe."

  3. #163

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackViper View Post
    Someone suggested balrog-worshippers or with a balrog mask or
    something. This is just to add some variety and in my opinion every faction needs atleast 1 super-uber-elite unit, that is where you work for in campaign to unlock and release those guys onto your enemies.
    Balrog-worshippers would be pretty cool I guess. But they don't really sound like big elite soldier to me. More like some sort of priests. The OoMM can easily be such a tribe IMO.
    So awesome would be if those Balrog-worshippers would have a standard (like there's the Holy Cross Standard in vanilla) with some sort of Balrog on it. The guys itself could be pretty though in melee, but they should mostly be used for morale support. They should be able to chant (or whatever it's called), and should inspire troops anyway (well, letting the Goblins think that the Balrog will eat them if they don't fight will make them fight pretty hard).
    An extra bonus would be frighting nearby enemies, which wouldn't be that hard to imagine if they have Balrog masks and such.

    Other than that, I think they're fine. Warg(rider)s would be a very good addition to them (they completely lack cavalry, although some of their soldiers could be as fast as the Native Americans in Kingdoms, which is very close to cavalry speed), but other than that, they should just swarm. Swarm! Swarm! Swarmmmm!! No elites for these guys Except for cave trolls, which are very strong I guess (should be tougher than Mordor's Mountain ones, IMHO)
    Gameplay > tiny little things

  4. #164
    DjAci's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazo View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Yay !

    - My favourite faction preview ! First thx to KK who put "notalotoftime" in it (well what would have been the result if he had more time ).
    - Anyway, they're not the best modelled faction but they're playable and your great models (awesome trolls) are a very good start for any later upgrade . Heavy armored units look fantastic too.
    - Many good suggestions above too, I red all the posts and was happy to find N°85 page 5 to sum up all ideas before I was lost in the flow, thx !
    - Some general thinking about OoMM:
    0.
    For tunnels, choices are scarce:
    * I agree they can't build more than dirt roads so you can:
    * Made it a special upgradable building for OoMM settlements giving movement/trade bonuses as for normal roads (vanilla events like "disaster" on your roads still could work but trade losses from dirt roads will be limited). A +1 siege defense bonus by level would be good too (they know they can flee to safety or receive reinforcements using hidden ways). It could have 3 levels:
    - exploration/small tunnel (galleries)
    - communication/medium tunnel (tunnels)
    - strategic/great tunnel (undergound network)
    * Give OoMM paved highways/stone roads between their initial settlements (they won't be able to build them anywhere else)
    * It's also a good idea for an ancillary like "tunnel expert" who will give siege attack, siege points and management bonuses. I'll hought of it in the ancillary thread.
    1.
    * Nothing much to add. Perhaps about units' name... Something like "tunnel guard/wardens" or "daylight patrol" for light units guarding tunnel exits if you add/need some more customization but that's just a detail.
    2.
    * I'll gladly read that big post . I agree with all ideas but I'd add that for bodyguards units their numbers could be the same as regular units, that would make goblin generals harder to kill thus preventing the usual routing chain to happen quickly.
    * There is also the choice to give goblins more generals: right at the beginning, by giving them an easier "man of the hour" event = automatic promotion for any victorious captain or jst by "birth rate"). This will also prevent an early faction collapse due to the lack leaders. I believe "royal blood" system and leadership ineritance can be suppressed for this faction and any general can take the throne if vacant (means leader of the stronger tribe take command if my mind).
    3.
    * Unmounted wargs or skirmisher mounted wargs would be great if not to hard to be done. I'm not sure about AOR final map but having a "warg" ressource limited to some areas would be great (as for mumakil). Let's say Misty Mountains settlements (OoMM and Isengard beginning settlements with any other mountainous settlement nearby).
    * You can also build them right from the beginning but in smaller numbers (increase with each building level, ex: 3 levels with 80, 160, 240 or 60, 120, 240). It'll simulate the ressouces and time needed to "organize" (mostly getting able riders in sufficient numbers) such units.
    4.
    * Yes they have low morale but that doesn't count if they're "entrenched" in their forts/settlements (automatic rally near flagged plazas). Add some great goblin general, one troll unit some drums and it's YOUR (player) morale that'll go down . Plus, if defending in mountains, they'll often ge the higer ground meaning no cavalry charge at all and equal or better archery range to "rain" units below them (even elves) with anything they can throw.
    * That leads to the following idea: they've the manpower so they can build low level battlefield defences very quickly. You can give some units (ligth ones) this ability (like fences/pikes for peasants in vanilla) since most of them arn't disciplinated well enough to take elaborated battlefield formations. It will add to their defensive thoughness.
    * It's also a good ancillary idea: Moria drum(mer)s giving troop morale to generals spending some time in Moria (after living with the Balrog, they won't be afraid of many things ). I'll tougth of it in the appropriate thread.
    5.
    * Either way is fine for me but if they can capture dwarves special ballistas they'll need a new unit to use it (I believe it's some more work ).
    * The other thing you can do is giving them siege points bonuses so they'll be able to build a lot of ladders/wooden towers with their large number. Even if garrison's units are strong, they can't defend all the walls and they'll just be outnumbered and forced to fight inside the city. Thus ballistas (even special ones) would be of lesser use.

    That's all.
    Pretty much I like all you proposed. I especially like the tunnels building idea. The names of units, and stakes for many of their units. I would propose that OoMM be the maters of "stakes" maybe. Giving it to many of their missile and even melee units.

    Also I've seen even more people for the idea of them looting Dwarven ballistas. It wouldn't be so hard to make. Use the normal ballista model operated by snaga. Dwarven ballista also looks like a normal one for the firsz release i think.

    I would also like to stress that warg riders are a must. And need to be better than Isengards. Unmounted wargs could be a nice bonus.
    I am slightly obsessed with longbows

  5. #165

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Those orcs still look too tall.

  6. #166
    Eugen's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Great work again!

    The work you have done yet is really beautiful, King Kong. Keep it on.



  7. #167

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Mayby you can give them Hobgoblins. This are the larger kind of goblin we are seeing now. There you have your elite unit.

  8. #168
    eatme's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    looks on par with the rest, excellent!1

  9. #169

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    amazing man

  10. #170

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    i would love to the see wargs as light cavalry and much thanks that you didnt put in these ugly spiders from battle for middleearth.

    the goblins are a bit to tall in my opinion.
    Last edited by its meee; February 24, 2009 at 10:18 AM.

  11. #171
    Dazo's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by DjAci View Post
    Pretty much I like all you proposed. I especially like the tunnels building idea. The names of units, and stakes for many of their units. I would propose that OoMM be the maters of "stakes" maybe. Giving it to many of their missile and even melee units.

    Also I've seen even more people for the idea of them looting Dwarven ballistas. It wouldn't be so hard to make. Use the normal ballista model operated by snaga. Dwarven ballista also looks like a normal one for the firsz release i think.

    I would also like to stress that warg riders are a must. And need to be better than Isengards. Unmounted wargs could be a nice bonus.
    Glad you like it .

    - For stakes (THAT's the word I coudn't remember ), all units can get them except: trolls (really no use), wargs and any mounted troop, bodyguards, ballista units and heavy armored infantry (swordsmen and halberdiers) since they won't dig with armour and they won't take it down to dig.
    - That's great with ballista if it can work that way.
    - For wargs you can mix the ideas with four levels:
    * unmounted wargs 240 / full unit size
    * mounted wargs 80 / 1/3 unit size (many riders wounded-killed in training, no officer at all)
    * mounted wargs 160 / 2/3 unit size (lack of equipment and able commanders)
    * mounted wargs 240 / full unit size (well-coordinated unit at full strength, few beasts and riders lost in training)

    (Oh, and I edited my post to get rid of many typesetting faults )

  12. #172
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by its meee View Post
    i would love to the see wargs as light cavalry and much thanks that you didnt put in these ugly spiders from battle for middleearth.

    the goblins are a bit to tall in my opinion.
    i agree

  13. #173
    killerrabbit's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    yeah, and they stand up to straight

    "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

  14. #174

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    240 well trained warg riders? That seems like something very overpowering!
    Anyway, I'd prefer that only their strenght would increase, not their numbers. The best ones could have armour (IMO, but I think not everyone would like this).
    Gameplay > tiny little things

  15. #175

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by lennartje View Post
    240 well trained warg riders? That seems like something very overpowering!
    Anyway, I'd prefer that only their strenght would increase, not their numbers. The best ones could have armour (IMO, but I think not everyone would like this).
    Orcs of the MM will need those numbers they are screwed otherwise

  16. #176
    Saruman the white wizard's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackViper View Post
    Orcs of the MM will need those numbers they are screwed otherwise
    Yeah Snaga's need 100 on 1 elf to have a chance of winning .

  17. #177
    Saruman the white wizard's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Maybe it's just me but the Troll's hammer seems bigger than the Mordor Troll's club.
    So my question is: Could the weapon of the Mordor Troll be made bigger?

  18. #178
    Dazo's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by lennartje View Post
    240 well trained warg riders? That seems like something very overpowering!
    Anyway, I'd prefer that only their strenght would increase, not their numbers. The best ones could have armour (IMO, but I think not everyone would like this).
    - I think BlackViper and Saruman the white wizard are right even if numbers were a mere example (that's what I add the unit size thing after the numbers) but I don't believe they're so wrong since I had in mind a limited warg ressource. And don't forget that you'll have unit pool restrictions so you won't be able to build so many units.
    - Though, I agree that special wargs units (armored, elite archers and so if any) must be fewer by unit. But for the time being, with regular wild wargs, large numbers seem ok.

  19. #179

    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor View Post
    I will just say this is a quick way to getting laughed at, never take the movie as lore. While they are very entertaining, they don't necessarily match up at times.

    No dude i am not saying u should use the movie as lore...

    I am saying that the film should be used for the costoums(correct me) not for the story
    I know that the books have more info then the movie

  20. #180
    Radiso-FIN's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: -- Preview of Orcs of the Misty Mountains --

    Good work as always. Nice preview

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