H.R. 25 - Fair Tax Act

[Jabberwock]

So this bill has 44 co-sponsors, all are Republicans.

To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h25/show

[Mikelus Trento]

So this bill has 44 co-sponsors, all are Republicans.




http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h25/show

To use the word "fairness" in a bill sponsored only by one party seems somewhat hypocritical.....and presumptuous.....and deceptive.

[IrishHitman]

Sounds like a "bankrupt the United States" plan.

Mind you, disbanding the crowd of robbers at the IRS would be wise.
Considering the US has no income tax law to speak of.

[Carach]

Sounds like a "bankrupt the United States" plan.

thought they already were.. technically.

[IrishHitman]

thought they already were.. technically.

The US hasn't borrowed above its punching weight, theoretically speaking.
If the recovery doesn't happen, "God" help you.

[Sphere]

A pure sales tax is highly regressive (the lower your income, the more you have to pay relatively). The bill seems to try and address this and do some redistrubting after collecting the tax, but to do this effectively you would have to have the same high level of administration costs this bill trys to illiminate.

[Mikelus Trento]

A pure sales tax is highly regressive (the lower your income, the more you have to pay relatively). The bill seems to try and address this and do some redistrubting after collecting the tax, but to do this effectively you would have to have the same high level of administration costs this bill trys to illiminate.

So a tax bill that would infairly target lower wage earners is being sponsored by the party of lily white Republicans? Who would have thunk it.

[Sphere]

So a tax bill that would infairly target lower wage earners is being sponsored by the party of lily white Republicans? Who would have thunk it.

The Fair Tax is very much the brainchild of the David Brooks wing of the party.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

To use the word "fairness" in a bill sponsored only by one party seems somewhat hypocritical.....and presumptuous.....and deceptive.

To make such a statement is even more so.

A pure sales tax is highly regressive (the lower your income, the more you have to pay relatively). The bill seems to try and address this and do some redistrubting after collecting the tax, but to do this effectively you would have to have the same high level of administration costs this bill trys to illiminate.

Care to take a guess as to how much it cost to administer the current US tax code? And method of collecting the tax is already operating, the state have their own sales taxes. A national sales would piggyback an existing system as very little cost.

And their is already a federal agency that sends monthly checks to many American household, the social security administration.

This might be one of the worst ideas in the history of mankind. All it does is hurt those with less money because they need to spend the same amount of money as the ridiculously wealthy to buy goods and services

No, this system eliminates all taxation on the poor.

There's a reason this is only supported by Republicans. Government by the rich, for the rich.

No it is not supported by democrats because it removes government manipulation of people by means of the tax code. You're lack of critical thinking on this is disheartening. In fact this is the only real downside to the Fair Tax, it depoliticizes the tax code.

By taxing consumption instead of income you encourage people to spend less and save more.
That would probably have been a great idea for the past 20 years or so, but if they introduce it now it would hurt consumption at a time then it's already very weak.

But saving is precisely what must be done to alleviate the excessive debt that has caused this recession.

Sounds like it would have the same effect as the flat tax idea, giving a little benefit to the lower/middle classes while greatly helping out the higher class. This idea however adds the second effect of shooting ourselves in both feet and then cutting off our heads. I know Republicans don't like taxes, but what genius though removing them completely was a good idea? I live in Florida where we have no state income tax and a good majority of our states income comes from the sales tax. There are many reasons why this state is in horrible shape at the moment, and the lack of a income tax certainly does not help it and may actually be doing more harm then good.

Sales taxes are a more stable source of revenue than an income tax. If the government of Florida is having a budget crunch it is most likely that spending has something to do with it.

Say the flat tax percentage is 10% (if only), that means someone who makes $50,000 will have $40,000 left to spend on his life, whereas someone who makes $50 million will have $40 million left. Yes, they gave the same proportionate amount to the government, but the person making $50K has a lot less left over.

Math not you thing eh?

[Cougar109]

Sales taxes are a more stable source of revenue than an income tax. If the government of Florida is having a budget crunch it is most likely that spending has something to do with it.

How do you figure? The undesirable outcome of this is that people of the lower/middle class will be saving the extra income for retirement and investments instead of spending it on items, people are not going on shopping sprees much these days. I just don't understand how you think a sales tax is more stable then taking money out of a pay check since everyone has to work but they have complete control of their spending. My monthly income tax is much higher then what I spend in an average month and there are many Americans just like me these days. You've got to explain how it's more stable to me, I just can't figure out a way.

I do agree, Bush and Crist have had horrible spending and money management policies but we have also have had a serious shortage of state funds, because Florida relies so much on tourism and the sales tax and because both have been seriously hurt by this economic problem we have been put in an even worse situation, you can't tell me having a state income tax would help that shortage?

[Justinian]

This might be one of the worst ideas in the history of mankind. All it does is hurt those with less money because they need to spend the same amount of money as the ridiculously wealthy to buy goods and services.

There's a reason this is only supported by Republicans. Government by the rich, for the rich.

[awisler]

This might be one of the worst ideas in the history of mankind. All it does is hurt those with less money because they need to spend the same amount of money as the ridiculously wealthy to buy goods and services.

There's a reason this is only supported by Republicans. Government by the rich, for the rich.

Going by the bolded section, democrat politicians would also support this? I agree our politicians are corrupt and full of BS on both sides of the spectrum, but if its by the rich for the rich, and democrats are in power, then there should be a large democrat support for this. Unless of course it is to simply garner votes.

I think many fail to realize that Fair Tax plans that get passed, actually give EVERYONE, a certain amount of money to spend on the basic necessities of life, by making the first (Insert reasonable amount of dollars here) spent untaxed.

This means that you can basically get the necessities of life without being taxed on them, and also without an income tax, odds are you are saving money if you have half a brain to manage it.

Before you tell me republican POLITICIANS are greedy, you must realize the democrat POLITICIANS are as well. Most republicans i know are not greedy, yes there are some, but i know plenty of greedy democrats.

[IrishHitman]

This might be one of the worst ideas in the history of mankind. All it does is hurt those with less money because they need to spend the same amount of money as the ridiculously wealthy to buy goods and services.

There's a reason this is only supported by Republicans. Government by the rich, for the rich.

Well said.

Going by the bolded section, democrat politicians would also support this? I agree our politicians are corrupt and full of BS on both sides of the spectrum, but if its by the rich for the rich, and democrats are in power, then there should be a large democrat support for this. Unless of course it is to simply garner votes.

Meh, the Democrats are doing the whole Keynesian thing right now, I doubt you're right.

[Thorn777]

This proposal is allot of Jabberwock.

[Gertrudius]

I'm a great believer in equality. This just dumps more of the tax burden on the less fortunate. That's why I've always thought a straight percentage income tax is best. That way everyone is screwed over by the government in equal proportion.

Take it easy,

[Chipp]

I'm a great believer in equality. This just dumps more of the tax burden on the less fortunate. That's why I've always thought a straight percentage income tax is best. That way everyone is screwed over by the government in equal proportion.

Take it easy,

I'm a liberal and I believe in the Fair Tax. It IS fair. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. The Fair Tax is progressive in that those with higher incomes who purchase more, pay more in taxes. That's very fair, taxing what you spend and not what you earn. Right now, taxes are allocated regardless of how much you spend and that is truly not fair.

Nothing. It only demonstrates that the inherent "fairness" of a flat sales tax rate is not actually fair.

If you make $20,000 a year and you're taxed 10% you're below the poverty line with $18,000 in your pocket (math done right this time! ). If you make $200,000 you still have $180K left over and are far from poverty. There isn't anything fair about that.

Someone who earns $200,000 will spend more, and thus pay more taxes. A Fair tax gives everyone a choice whether to spend that 10% or not. If you earn $20,000, perhaps you shouldn't spend on what you can't afford. An income tax does not give you that choice.

[MaximiIian]

I'm a great believer in equality. This just dumps more of the tax burden on the less fortunate.

Yup. And, as someone who has numerous poor or lower-middle-class friends, I don't like the Fair Tax deal. It would royally screw them over, thus I do not support it. I favour a plan that would raise the taxes for the wealthy.

That's why I've always thought a straight percentage income tax is best. That way everyone is screwed over by the government in equal proportion.

Nah. Some, i.e. the wealthy and ad-hoc aristocracy, deserve to be screwed over more.
Because they've been screwing everyone else for a long time.

[Erik]

One aspect that hasn't been addressed yet is the impact that sales tax has on the economy vs. income tax.

By taxing consumption instead of income you encourage people to spend less and save more.
That would probably have been a great idea for the past 20 years or so, but if they introduce it now it would hurt consumption at a time then it's already very weak.

[Justinian]

One aspect that hasn't been addressed yet is the impact that sales tax has on the economy vs. income tax.

By taxing consumption instead of income you encourage people to spend less and save more.
That would probably have been a great idea for the past 20 years or so, but if they introduce it now it would hurt consumption at a time then it's already very weak.

We need to be promoting sales in the United States and globally now. People need to be willing to buy products, buy stock, and keep the economy going. The current economic recession is 60% real issues and 40% fear and uncertainty. If you're scared your bank is going to go bankrupt, so you and all your friends rush to the bank to get your money out -- the bank goes bankrupt! If you fear your stocks are going to plummet so you sell of your stocks, you lose money and the value of those stocks goes further down.

This would be a bad idea even if our economy is going swimmingly, but considering the current state of the global economy there could not be a worse time for this idiotic proposal.

Going by the bolded section, democrat politicians would also support this? I agree our politicians are corrupt and full of BS on both sides of the spectrum, but if its by the rich for the rich, and democrats are in power, then there should be a large democrat support for this. Unless of course it is to simply garner votes.

Well I was making a statement as to how Republicans like to run things. Democrats are far from perfect but our past two Democrat presidents (Obama and Clinton) have spent a lot of time working on the economy and trying to do things that help the poor and the working class.

Statistically, most wealthy "old money' people are Republican. As such Republicans represent the interest groups who vote for them -- rich WASPs.

[Cougar109]

Sounds like it would have the same effect as the flat tax idea, giving a little benefit to the lower/middle classes while greatly helping out the higher class. This idea however adds the second effect of shooting ourselves in both feet and then cutting off our heads. I know Republicans don't like taxes, but what genius though removing them completely was a good idea? I live in Florida where we have no state income tax and a good majority of our states income comes from the sales tax. There are many reasons why this state is in horrible shape at the moment, and the lack of a income tax certainly does not help it and may actually be doing more harm then good.