Canada - civil servants and raises

[thebull0425]

Here we are in uncertain times, global economy is suffering, and we have tools in the civil service, teachers, cops, bus drivers, councilors and the list goes on, threatening to go on strike while the rest of the country is seeing companies laying people off. The pisses me off to no end, and some politicians should get some balls and say to these people, hey, the economy is suffering, people are losing their jobs, go yourselves, no raises like the rest of Canadians. Like give me a break.

Ranting on a Sunday night

[Scar Face]

Well the thing is, strikes during an economic downturn are terrible, but unavoidable. Eventually they will strike and try to get a raise. I don't know what will happen. We cant give them a raise and we can't have them on strike because these jobs are essential to society.

[Justice and Mercy]

Take a page from the book of us evil capitalists.

Don't want to work? We don't want to pay you.

[Scar Face]

Take a page from the book of us evil capitalists.

Don't want to work? We don't want to pay you.

The thing is, the people who want to strike have unions set up. We cant replace them. They are also essential services- bus drivers [cities stop], teachers, everything. If they strike, we cave, because there is literally NOTHING we can do to stop them. It's a scary thought because they can [and are] strike all the time and balloon their wages compared to their actual worth/skill of the job.

[Justice and Mercy]

The thing is, the people who want to strike have unions set up. We cant replace them.

So take an early summer. Don't pay them for a few months and many of them will be running back, willing to take lower pay.

Well, if you REALLY want to get things rolling just scrap the whole public education system.

[Scar Face]

So take an early summer. Don't pay them for a few months and many of them will be running back, willing to take lower pay.

Well, if you REALLY want to get things rolling just scrap the whole public education system.

It's not as easy as taking an early summer. To break the power of the unions in the way you describe the entire country would enter a stand still in the middle of a recession, for months. I don't think you know just how much is unionized in Canada man. We need to make unions illegal because there isn't a realistic chance of stopping this vicious cycle any other way.

Best part of this is that all these retard ass "capitalists" don't even know that investing in schools and healthcare are the best ways to improve an economy and reduce both poverty and crime, and that a broader consumer base leads to a more stable economy. But "waaaa, waaaa, theys a takin mah money to give to the pooooorrrrsss!" Capitalism as you imagine it is dead, and people like you killed it. All I can say is thanks.

The services striking are already upper middle class, the systems are good and efficient. They don't have any justification to strike, they haven't in decades. They're milking it from the rest of society- poor, middle and upper class.

Break the unions I say, and break em hard, you know old school style with some good ole fashioned unions busters. Not that I am condoning violence..............or am I ha ha ha ha. Unions need to get in step with reality, ask the auto industry about that and all the jobs the unions can't protect.

Not a bad idea at all.

[Rhinosaur]

It's not as easy as taking an early summer. To break the power of the unions in the way you describe the entire country would enter a stand still in the middle of a recession, for months. I don't think you know just how much is unionized in Canada man. We need to make unions illegal because there isn't a realistic chance of stopping this vicious cycle any other way.

Unions didn't destroy your economy or mine, stupid overfed capitalists who don't think they'll ever face the consequences for their actions did. over rich peoplew who don't face the specter of poverty if they screw up are way more likely to make decisions that damage the whole rest of their country than the union worker making a paltry $30 to turn screws, make widgets, beat poors, or whatever you think the middle class does.

[thebull0425]

Break the unions I say, and break em hard, you know old school style with some good ole fashioned unions busters. Not that I am condoning violence..............or am I ha ha ha ha. Unions need to get in step with reality, ask the auto industry about that and all the jobs the unions can't protect.

[Justice and Mercy]

Break the unions I say, and break em hard, you know old school style with some good ole fashioned unions busters. Not that I am condoning violence..............or am I ha ha ha ha. Unions need to get in step with reality, ask the auto industry about that and all the jobs the unions can't protect.

Unions are fine, just take out all the guns.

If unions are nothing but a bunch of employees banding together and saying "we won't work until you pay us more", that's fine. It's when socialist government guns get involved that there's a problem.

If the union's demand is too high, more workers will be found. If they're willing to take the same job for the same pay, they deserve it. Bye.

If the employer really isn't paying enough and no one wants the job the employer needs to figure out what he values more, his money or the labor.



We American's don't have to worry though, Obama's Magic Money! is coming, so we're all fine. Right?

[danzig]

This I can agree with and facing the same thing on this side of the border, especially here in NYC. Hell we got health care and teacher unions running tv ads like mad to combat cuts being proposed to them. Sorry but everyone is suffering now and most people dont have the luxury of having civil service/goverment jobs to so why should they be immune to the situation everyone else is going thru.

Of course now that Washington is throwing NY a bag of money teachers/health care etc all expect alot of the money will go to them which is a mistake imo. More of a mistake since teacher union makes it very difficult to get rid of bad teachers. Hell I wish city would use the situation to apply pressure to rewrite those rules. Sorry but if some guy at GM losing his job then some teacher in NYC has to accept they may face the same faith.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Unions sound great until you wake one day tied face down on your bed with your butt up in the air, a slippery goo covering your nether regions and there is a long line of well endowed men standing behind you.

[thebull0425]

Quite the picture there Pacifist ha ha ha.

Danzig - we are coming together in our views ha ha ha, a thawing of relations.

[Rhinosaur]

Best part of this is that all these retard ass "capitalists" don't even know that investing in schools and healthcare are the best ways to improve an economy and reduce both poverty and crime, and that a broader consumer base leads to a more stable economy. But "waaaa, waaaa, theys a takin mah money to give to the pooooorrrrsss!" Capitalism as you imagine it is dead, and people like you killed it. All I can say is thanks.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Best part of this is that all these retard ass "capitalists" don't even know that investing in schools and healthcare are the best ways to improve an economy and reduce both poverty and crime, and that a broader consumer base leads to a more stable economy. But "waaaa, waaaa, theys a takin mah money to give to the pooooorrrrsss!" Capitalism as you imagine it is dead, and people like you killed it. All I can say is thanks.

Did somebody with a mustache, top hat and cane steal your lollipop when you were a kid?

At any rate the unions are not being very good socialists are they? Agitating for increased wages, threatening strikes, could be seen as downright selfish and, ugh, capitalistish.

[danzig]

Best part of this is that all these retard ass "capitalists" don't even know that investing in schools and healthcare are the best ways to improve an economy and reduce both poverty and crime, and that a broader consumer base leads to a more stable economy. But "waaaa, waaaa, theys a takin mah money to give to the pooooorrrrsss!" Capitalism as you imagine it is dead, and people like you killed it. All I can say is thanks.

Throwing money at a broken system = lost money. Look at the bank bailout that is now being reconsidered to possibly nationalization of Citi and BoA since they have become black holes for fed dollars. School system does not need more money it needs to be dismantled and rebuilt, any gains from it are long term so why should fed money be thrown at a long term solution at a system that is fundamentally broken? I love people who about throwing money at one failed system as being bad but think throwing it at another one is good.

The stimulus is meant for pull US out of the economic funk, there is nothing in it that is suppose to address long term...its meant as a short term kick in the ass to the economy. If one wants to factor things like education into it then by all means do so but treat it as it is, a long term investment that requires massive restructing to actually be worth it. Instead we got "here is a bag of money good luck".

[Justinian]

Way too much flaming going on. Posts have been deleted, consider this your only warning in here to be polite and not to attack the poster.

If you disagree with a moderating action, appeal to the Tribunal or to the senior moderators. DO NOT post in the thread challenging a ruling.

[Rhinosaur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdSbKSQYXgo

Unions forever scabs never

[danzig]

Unions that are flexible enough to protect workers but not at the expense of protecting incompetent workers who should be fired. Unions who are smart enough to acknowledge that while not the sole cause they must accept some responsibility for excessive pensions that are bleeding companies dry. Sure giveme those Unions, ones that act like unions instead of simply the flip side of the coin of greedy executives. Far too few of those unions and certainly not the one protecting teachers, especially here in NYC. Wouldnt trust half the teachers in local public school to ask my daughter if she'd like fries with her burger let alone teach her anything....its why she goes to private.

Capitalists and unions want the same thing: the most for the least.

Yep, little difference between the two.

[Rhinosaur]

Unions that are flexible enough to protect workers but not at the expense of protecting incompetent workers who should be fired. Unions who are smart enough to acknowledge that while not the sole cause they must accept some responsibility for excessive pensions that are bleeding companies dry. Sure giveme those Unions, ones that act like unions instead of simply the flip side of the coin of greedy executives. Far too few of those unions and certainly not the one protecting teachers, especially here in NYC. Wouldnt trust half the teachers in local public school to ask my daughter if she'd like fries with her burger let alone teach her anything....its why she goes to private.



Yep, little difference between the two.

You all are looking at thwe wrong side of the coin here. The executive/capitalist class are the ones who continue to chase the short term profit above any sort of public good, and as I said before you all got your wittle feelings hurt, a healthy economy is built on the aggregate demand of the many, not the fancy and whims of the few richest among us, no mater how much you idolize them.

[danzig]

Where exactly did I indicate I idolize them? I've flat out lumped both of them as being "the problem" while it is you who seem to be elevating unions on some type of holy pedestal. Yes of course exec look short term and are you saying unions dont considering the insane pension/benefit packages that many companies have struggled with to restructure over the past few years. When things are good everyone look to grab the loot, unions by excessive contracts, company execs by thinking the profits will never end.

And dont flatter yourself with hurting my feelings if you want to discuss something do it without the insults and we'll do just fine instead of coming in here in guns blazing and insulting everyone who gasp dare hold different view then you.