Spears of Macedon

[Revolution]

I stopped playing RTW because my system could not handle it some time ago. With my newer computer I decided to purchase the game again and start a Bruitii campaign on hard. I have managed to defeat Greece and push Macedon out of Thessalonica and Byzantium. Campaign based I am doing just fine the only problem is the amount of men I lose on the battlefield to the phalanx of the Greeks and Macedonians.

The Greeks are destroyed but it was not an easy war. And now iam facing the same problem with Macedon. The unstoppable phalanx vs my roman principes and calvary is like running a very large vehicle into a concrete wall. I will be able to defeat them but this is nothing like what I face with my Julii campaign. I have attempted everything from taking them head on - flanking - bombarding with arrows - and siege weapons. In an open field auxilia calvary and ballistas can weaken their numbers but it is just to overwhelming with the stacks of full banners the Macedonians are managing to pump our every other turn with only three cities left.

How can I reduce the my troop lost in city battles where I have to engage the phalanx is close quarters? Or will I have to sacrifice large amounts of troops to finish off the Macedonians?

(1) Unit of thier hoplites managed to route 4 units of my hastati while surronded and attacked from all angles by my hastati in a city siege today.

[hastati lord]

umm wow thats pretty insane
have u tried to have your hastati throw all their pila b4 hand to hand fighting?
another thing would be to kill the general early so their morale falls

[Entropy Judge]

Some general anti-pike advice:

Use one unit to draw their attention - cavalry works fine for this, but something more substantial (like Principes) might be needed.

Always attempt to engage from the rear, or from the right flank - this is to minimize the enemy Defense.

Always throw both pila volleys before engaging.

When using cavalry to charge, charge from the rear, wait until the unit is "Fighting" instead of "Charging," and retreat. The more off-balance you can keep the pikes, the better you'll do.

[Sunday213]

Merc Hoplites also help so you can use 1 to tie of the other phalanx without the cassualtys if units without phalanx and hit them from behind.

[Revolution]

The battles are doing a little better with the advice but iam still losing alot of men because of the frontlines with that formation. Now all I have to do is stop Egypt and Pontus from destroying my last defenses along the west coast of asia minor

[Toern]

In open field battles, is pretty simple, make sure u have 4-5 archers, hunt all no pike unit with your cavarly, and then use fire attack in the same unit until they route, also spread ur forces an make sure u got ur hastati\principes with fire at will on

[|Sith| Max]

Stop: Hold what you have till you can train Legionary Cohorts. fight defensively and wait for the marian reforms. if u hold them in the front with legionaries ou can easily hitt em in the back with praetorian cav. Hastati and principes are fine for easy ai, but if ur playing on very hard u need the reforms.

[Revolution]

Stop: Hold what you have till you can train Legionary Cohorts. fight defensively and wait for the marian reforms. if u hold them in the front with legionaries ou can easily hitt em in the back with praetorian cav. Hastati and principes are fine for easy ai, but if ur playing on very hard u need the reforms.

Took your advice and I have finally been able to hold off the phalanx walls. I hope my military cities can train enough men before egypt lands on Greece.

[SonOfAlexander]

Just attack from the front and get cavalry round the back. Legions will hold up long enough for you to get cavalry there. If they are pikemen, not hoplites, then using 2 units to confuse them, so that they lift up their spears is also a good idea. Don't just rely on merc. hoplites.

[Haxiel]

I'm also playing a H/H campaign, with Julii though and battling Macedon seems a piece of cake to me.

Let's have a look at Macedon's setup first, what these guys usually take in their full-banner armies. The majority of their infantry are 240 men-strong pikemen, the usual stuff, not particularly strong, and Militia Hoplites in equal parts. Occasionally they fill their ranks with Levy pikemen, which have pretty bad stats and remarkably poor defense (something like 3 or 5 I reckon) plus below average morale though 240 men-strong, and if you let them develop, Royal Pikemen, which are good hoplite units, armed with pikes and 240 men-strong. That's as far as infantry goes. No light/mobile infantry support at all. Extra-large pikes are all they get over Greeks.
Archers and Peltasts are available to them as ranged support, pretty much like everyone else. You'll be seeing no less than 3 peltasts and at least 1 archer cards per army
They've access to formidable cavalry and regular light cavalry. Companions or other heavy cavalry are a rather unusual sight, at least in my games, though 2-4 light cavalry units is pretty common.
Summarizing, a Macedonian example-army has got at least 8-10 phalanxes, roughly half of that are levies or militias, no big deal really, plus they rout fairly easily, 2-4 peltasts, poor armor and short range, 1-3 archers, these can be nightmarish, 2-4 light cavalry support, weak but fast and if lucky, a general.

Now we can get to spotting weaknesses:
*They lack heavy skirmishers or infantry support that can protect their phalanxes' flanks appropriately, they rely exclusivley on cavalry support, which they may sometimes lack, and because of this, units that guard Macedon flanks are weak against missiles and spearmen (Triarii/Mercenaries if playing pre-marian Rome).
*Pikemen generally have a notably worse defense rating than hoplites, which makes them more vulnerable to missiles, and the fact that they are more in number makes them even more vulnerable to artillery fire. And more people means that moving around and forming is more difficult.

Their strengths are obvious: Marching headlong into phalanxes is an effective way to kill your army in a matter of seconds, their ranged support is protected by their pikemen, so you cannot separate them from the main body of their army as easily as you would if battling other factions. Especially true of archers. And last, excellent heavy cavalry means that if allowed to perform Hammer-and-Anvil manouvers on you, it will probably be fatal. Think of Alexander.

It's been too long already, I'm going straight to the point. Here's what I do:
My pre-marian campaign army, trained from scratch to conquer the whole of Greece and Macedon, consists of some 6-9 infantry units, 6 hastati 3 principes most of the time, 2 velites as I'm not really a big fan of skirmishing, 2 archers, 2 equites and a general.
Let's say I'm battling an example-army, like the one I mentioned before.
The AI almost always deploys the phalanxes in the front, with peltasts and archers in a very thin (2-3 men deep) line behind, with cavalry in the flanks and the general behind. Deploy your infantry in one line, with archers in the front, with cavalry at their sides including your general, skirmishers immediately behind them, and infantry in the rear. Run your archers and start peppering those slow pikemen, they will most probably stay in the spot having arrows for breakfast. Beware of enemy archers marching forward to attack yours. At this point two things might happen:
1. Either their archers march forward, in which case you can pull them away from the main formation by falling back a bit until they are away from their pikemen, and then charge them with all your cavalry units. This will almost always cause a rout, though you may rarely destroy the whole of their archer support. Some will always manage to run behind pikemen and regroup, so be aware of them later on.
2. Some (Sometimes all, but not usual) light cavalry rush to your archers, in which case you should fall back behind cavalry and kill them off with yours. Remember that the general will play a key role here either in killing or routing the enemy, as equites and greek cavalry are kind of the same.
Now, you should move your infantry forward with velites close behind and fire all your pila on phalanxes. Remember to keep the archers firing at all times. skirmishers can lend a hand now, too. At the same time, move your all your cavalry to one flank and either finish off remaining light cavalry units that could flank your infantry later, or if no remain in your chosen flank, charge and rout peltasts. Since they are, as I said, deployed in a very thin line, phalanxes only really get to cover one, or two ranged units behind them, so peltasts/archers on the extreme sides are unprotected and vulnerable to cavalry charges. Mind the enemy general, as he will most probably engage your cavalry and not your infantry at this point.
By now all or most of your pila/javelins must be spent. It's time to melee fight. I suggest saving one or two charges of javelins on your velites so you can move them along with your archers to the sides or rear of the phalanx line and hit them where they are most vulnerable.
Right now your infantry will be pinning the enemy phalanx, so this is the perfect time to charge them on the rear with what remains of your cavalry. I recommend using equites now ONLY if the targeted pikemen unit is close to routing. In this stage of the fighting their strength lies in their numbers when charging , which can more probably lead to a rout, and not the actual damage dealt. I suggest charging and retreating your general unit till you get to rout them, then go for the next unit of pikemen and flank them with the remaining infantry. Don't take too long though, as pikemen and hoplites are still deadly when attacked from the front no matter how much their stats suck.

Basically that's all there's to it. I've managed to crush 3 or 4 full banner or almost full banner armies. I've taken Bylazora, which is an excellent staging point for my campaign because I can retrain all my tier 1 units and bolster my forces a bit. Now I've got an actual full banner, and Onagers will arrive next turn. With that, I plan to take all walled cities from them.

Maybe I should post this as a guide instead, maybe I will later.

[Lord Thesaurian]

1. drown them in pilae

2. phalanxes are the masters of siege defense. try to wait sieges out or attack nearby field armies to get them on the battlefield.

3. kill gens early in the battles if u can

4. phalanxes will gouge holes in ur lines fairly quickly, so quick, decisive hammer-and-anvil tactics on ur part are essential.

5. Pre-marian cav sucks, while Macedon has some of the best cav in the game, so u'll need to get creative

Remember: the campaign isnt all about battles. Proper campaign strategy is essential.

Legio_Italica's Tried and True System to
Defeat a Strong Enemy:

1. Convert to a defensive war on all other enemies and focus on the one.

2. Blockade all ports, thus cutting the enemy's income and the morale of his citizens.

3. Send spies and asassins (diseased if possible) to wreak havoc on the enemy's interior

4. Let the effects of this soak in. Dont invade until you are absolutely ready.

5. Once you attack, blitz your enemy. Never allow him any respite. You are attacking, so maintain the initiative. Fight on your terms and only your terms. Anything else spells defeat or Pyrrhic victory.

6. Utterly destroy your enemy. Leave no trace of him anywhere in the world; wipe him from the history books to ensure he never rises again to haunt you.

[War lord]

1. drown them in pilae

2. phalanxes are the masters of siege defense. try to wait sieges out or attack nearby field armies to get them on the battlefield.

3. kill gens early in the battles if u can

4. phalanxes will gouge holes in ur lines fairly quickly, so quick, decisive hammer-and-anvil tactics on ur part are essential.

5. Pre-marian cav sucks, while Macedon has some of the best cav in the game, so u'll need to get creative

Remember: the campaign isnt all about battles. Proper campaign strategy is essential.

Legio_Italica's Tried and True System to
Defeat a Strong Enemy:

1. Convert to a defensive war on all other enemies and focus on the one.

2. Blockade all ports, thus cutting the enemy's income and the morale of his citizens.

3. Send spies and asassins (diseased if possible) to wreak havoc on the enemy's interior

4. Let the effects of this soak in. Dont invade until you are absolutely ready.

5. Once you attack, blitz your enemy. Never allow him any respite. You are attacking, so maintain the initiative. Fight on your terms and only your terms. Anything else spells defeat or Pyrrhic victory.

6. Utterly destroy your enemy. Leave no trace of him anywhere in the world; wipe him from the history books to ensure he never rises again to haunt you.

Legio_Italica's Tried and True System to
Defeat a Strong Enemy

Thanks for stateing the obvise.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Legio_Italica's Tried and True System to

Defeat a Strong Enemy

Thanks for stateing the obvise.

Yeah its obvious, but like seli said, there are numberless noobs who come asking questions that could be solved by this list Its like Sun Tsu's Art of War; the maxims and advice he gives are incredibly obvious and common, but the practicality and genius with which he applied them has made the book a military bible for over 2000 years. The concepts of strategy and tactics are common sense. It is the application which separates the noobs from the legends.

[MaceMan]

Legio_Italica's Tried and True System to
Defeat a Strong Enemy

Thanks for stateing the obvise.

Thanks for learning how to spell "obvious". Oh, wait...

EDIT: And "stating". Jesus.

Do you realize how brazen you look by ing all over someone who is earnestly trying to help others? Not to mention mentally challenged for not even being able to do it properly. And just because the advice seems obvious to you doesn't mean that it will be to other people. Get a clue.

[War lord]

Thanks for learning how to spell "obvious". Oh, wait...

EDIT: And "stating". Jesus.

Do you realize how brazen you look by ing all over someone who is earnestly trying to help others? Not to mention mentally challenged for not even being able to do it properly. And just because the advice seems obvious to you doesn't mean that it will be to other people. Get a clue.

And insulting spelling and calling people mentally challenged makes you the smartest cleverest man who ever lived?

[|Sith| Max]

Thanks for learning how to spell "obvious". Oh, wait...

EDIT: And "stating". Jesus.

Do you realize how brazen you look by ing all over someone who is earnestly trying to help others? Not to mention mentally challenged for not even being able to do it properly. And just because the advice seems obvious to you doesn't mean that it will be to other people. Get a clue.

as a victim of that method i can safely say that i dont give a damn bout what he says. and if legio is smart he will probably ignore him too. he wont get the clue. but since he is funny no one cares. i say let him make a fool outta himself like he always does.

[War lord]

as a victim of that method i can safely say that i dont give a damn bout what he says. and if legio is smart he will probably ignore him too. he wont get the clue. but since he is funny no one cares. i say let him make a fool outta himself like he always does.

Max Shut up.

[|Sith| Max]

lol my post gone. i was harsh but did i lie?

[Selifator]

That's why it's tried and true. And even if it is obvious, seeing the amount of people who still come to these forums to ask, it can't hurt to make such a list.

[Selifator]

Besides that, the Art of War is simply a must-read for anyone who has any interest in ancient warfare.