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  1. #1
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    Default Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...lout.Analysis/

    WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama faces split opinions within the military on whether to make the speedy withdrawal from Iraq he championed as a candidate.
    Obama's top generals in Baghdad are pressing for an elongated timetable. Some influential senior advisers inside the Pentagon are more amenable to a quicker pullout.
    Obama has yet to decide the matter. But his recent announcement that he is sending thousands more combat troops to Afghanistan implies a drawdown of at least two brigades from Iraq by summer.
    That does not answer the question whether Obama will stick to his stated goal of a 16-month pullout or opt for a slower, less risky approach.
    Gen. Ray Odierno, the top American commander in Baghdad, favors a longer timetable for leaving Iraq. He sees 2009 as a pivotal year, with parliamentary elections set to be held in December; he doesn't want to lose more than two of the 14 combat brigades that are now in Iraq before the end of the year. And he believes the U.S. military will need to remain engaged in Iraq, to some degree, for years to come.
    Odierno's boss at U.S. Central Command, Gen. David Petraeus, leans toward Odierno's view.
    Gen. David McKiernan, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, has steered clear of the debate over withdrawing from Iraq. But he sees his battlefield as an increasingly urgent priority, not just for additional combat troops but also for Iraq-focused surveillance aircraft and more civilian support.
    There are now about 146,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, compared with 38,000 in Afghanistan. Obama has directed 17,000 more to head to Afghanistan, including Marines and soldiers who had been in line for Iraq duty.
    At the Pentagon, a more mixed view prevails.
    The uniformed service chiefs see Iraq as a strain on their troops and, more broadly, a drain on their resources. The Marines, in particular, are in the tough position of having a foothold in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a relatively small service, they would prefer to concentrate more fully on Afghanistan, if only they could get out of Iraq.
    Neither Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, nor Defense Secretary Robert Gates has said publicly whether he supports a 16-month withdrawal timeline. But they have an obligation to consider the full spectrum of threats and potential threats to U.S. national security.
    "There's a very clear understanding of what is at stake here," Mullen said Feb. 10. "And it's very natural for Gen. Odierno to want to go slower and to hang onto capability as long as possible," he added. "That's not unusual. It's very natural for Gen. McKiernan to say, 'I need more.' And so that's the tension. We don't have an infinite pot (of resources and deployable forces). We have to make hard decisions about where to accept risk."
    In internal discussions, the emphasis appears to be on getting out responsibly rather than quickly, several officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no decisions have been made.
    Obama must weigh an array of hard-to-figure trade-offs in security and politics. And he must reconcile his conviction that the combat phase of U.S. involvement in Iraq must end with his commanders' concern in Baghdad that hard-fought gains could be squandered.
    It boils down to this: How much more effort is the Iraq war worth? What is the risk of leaving too soon?
    Is the 16-month timetable too short, given the uncertain state of stability and political reconciliation in Iraq and the potential cost of seeing the country slide back into widespread sectarian war?
    And is anything substantially beyond 16 months too long, given the call for still more troops in Afghanistan, where Obama himself has said the battle against extremists is going in the wrong direction?
    Obama is still considering his options, which officials say includes a less hurried, 23-month withdrawal. The deadline he inherited from the Bush administration is Dec. 31, 2011, the date set in a security agreement with Baghdad that says all U.S. troops, not just combat forces, must be gone by then.
    One clue to some of the thinking inside the White House might lie with the views of Obama's national security adviser, retired Marine Gen. James Jones. Jones co-chaired a study published in January 2008 on the way ahead in Afghanistan. The group endorsed the idea of providing more military support for Afghanistan, including resources that become available as combat forces are withdrawn from Iraq.
    The president has an additional factor to weigh: the political cost of backing off the 16-month pullout timetable that was a prominent feature of his campaign. Although he has said he thinks 16 months is a reasonable timetable, he also has assured military leaders that he will consider their advice.
    Notably absent, at least so far, is even a whiff of public pressure from fellow Democrats to stick to a 16-month timeline. That suggests Obama's party might be satisfied so long as he makes early and clear steps in the direction of ending U.S. combat involvement in Iraq, even if on a somewhat longer timeline.
    Obama campaigned for the White House on a promise that he would end the war and get U.S. commanders moving immediately on a transition to Iraqi control of their own security. He said military experts believe combat troops can be pulled out safely at a rate of one to two brigades a month, meaning all 14 combat brigades there now could be gone within 16 months, which equates to mid-2010.
    Peter Mansoor, a retired Army colonel who was the executive officer for Petraeus when the general was in Baghdad overseeing the "surge" of U.S. forces in 2007-08, said he thinks it likely that Obama will pull at least four combat brigades out of Iraq by the end of this year. But he hopes the president does not insist on getting all 14 brigades out within 16 months.
    "If the president orders it, the military can do it, but whether it's advisable or not is a different story," he said in a telephone interview. "Quite frankly, I don't think it is, given the risk you would incur to potentially upsetting the political situation" inside Iraq.

  2. #2
    Hunter Makoy's Avatar We got 2 words for ya..
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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    I don't think there's any need right now for Obama to make a speedy withdraw from Iraq at all now. Just like if McCain was elected there would have been no need for us to stay there forever. Their campaign promises on the war all pretty much become moot by the time inauguration day rolled around.

    Iraq is becoming stable enough that he can sit back and take a very middle road on a sensible withdraw and help them when the need it, and get our boys back who don't need to be there.

    Somehow I don't see Obama taking a middle road though.
    Under the patronage of Lord Condormanius (12.29.08)
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    Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    There's no urgency to pull out of Iraq. The Financial futures of this country don't live an die on it and even if we did they're is a conflict in Afghanistan which we simply cannot afford to lose (Not that Iraq was any different). We need only to press Iraq to fully take in the reins of their own security. If Maliki want's American influence in government to be curbed, then he has a difficult argument as to why we should not have a say when 140,000 Americans are defending him and his people. After that happens, we need to get more soldiers to Afghanistan, appeal to more young men and women to join the service (Make a patriotic appeal which caters to the right and a more Humanitarian plight of Afghanistan appeal which caters to the left more) as well as try to get our allied and NATO countries to provide more troops and give more of their existing troops combat roles.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus View Post
    There's no urgency to pull out of Iraq.
    You mean other than the fact that the Iraqi's want us to leave?
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

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    Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikelus Trento View Post
    You mean other than the fact that the Iraqi's want us to leave?
    They wanted us to leave when 250 people were being killed by shi'ite or sunni death squads a day.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus View Post
    They wanted us to leave when 250 people were being killed by shi'ite or sunni death squads a day.
    It is their country.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  7. #7
    Hunter Makoy's Avatar We got 2 words for ya..
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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikelus Trento View Post
    You mean other than the fact that the Iraqi's want us to leave?
    That doesn't make it urgent. That means we should certainly leave, and we want to, and we will. However, that doesn't mean we leave prematurely.
    Under the patronage of Lord Condormanius (12.29.08)
    "Yes, I know why the leaf is turning yellow. Its a lack of chloroform."

  8. #8

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Makoy View Post
    That doesn't make it urgent. That means we should certainly leave, and we want to, and we will. However, that doesn't mean we leave prematurely.
    Lemme tell you two good reasons why it is urgent....

    First, they have set a timeline for us to be gone, which is their right as a sovereign nation.

    Second, we sure as heck can do better things with our money right now than throwing it at Iraq. What is the daily cost there again? Millions?
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    I think there is a very good reason to draw down, Iraq.

    Recession. We've simply overextended ourselves on all fronts.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  10. #10

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Slow, slow, slow steady as we go...that needs to be the Obama approach. Not too aggressive to pull out but not too cautious to start planning for it. He WILL take it slow because he knows if Iraq goes wrong now even the NY Times will be running Obama destroy Bush lead progress...and the LAST thing Obama wants to be seen as somehow managing to be worse then Bush at something.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    I think there is a very good reason to draw down, Iraq.

    Recession. We've simply overextended ourselves on all fronts.
    Isn't war or a conflict good for the military and economy? Last report I saw on the news said that enlistment was up. This was at the same time jobs were being lost.

    I do agree with the overextended part though.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Basically, i thought it was the presidents "last word" that matters?
    It clearly is not the case here.
    He won the Presidentcey solely on the fact that he would "totallyy bring the troops home".
    Look's lie you're all going to get shafted on this yet again.
    Jeez, the irony of it all is pathetic, these idiots, our so called leaders, can't keep to a single word they say.
    It is a t-toal farce.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Um he never said he would bring home the troops right away, he supported a timetable while Mccain did not...that is the primary difference and in the end it means the same thing since neither Obama nor Mccain are idiots. He hasnt lied....I find it amusing some people would think its a good idea for Obama to completely ignore the advice of the commander in Iraq. It is that type of thinking and action that got us into the mess to begin with. Bush finally wised up after several years of wasted effort and now people want to see Obama go back to that?

  14. #14
    Hunter Makoy's Avatar We got 2 words for ya..
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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Anybody who voted for Obama thinking he would "totally bring the troops home super duper fast" completely wasted their vote. The reason why this thread is even important is because Obama can't just make any decision he wants, he has to consult with the generals.
    Under the patronage of Lord Condormanius (12.29.08)
    "Yes, I know why the leaf is turning yellow. Its a lack of chloroform."

  15. #15

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    He did say he will totally withdraw the troops in a time frame yes, that is how he won people's votes.
    Now he might go against this idea?
    Whatever some general says is not the point, he won the presidentcey solely on the "bring the troops home" message he said.
    It was a promise, so it now looks like he might well break that promise because of what some general has told him?
    The American people have to question him about this, because sooner or later the guy that gets in power next might well become a dictator.
    What happens then?
    Don't sat say that's impossible in America because it isn't

  16. #16

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Um how is he going against it if he never claimed "hey bringing home troops in 2 months" back in Nov. He even said he would consult with his military, anyone who read into his "promise" that troops would start mass withdraw from Iraq a month after he took office is a fool. I dont even know why anyone would want to rush it given the great progress that has been made in Iraq security, that any draw down needs to be done smartly and slowly to not upset the balance. This is exactly what he sounds like he is going to do which is I say great, as I said he isnt an idiot and he isnt going to risk "losing" Iraq after everything that has been accomplished there the past year and half.

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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by ginge51 View Post
    He did say he will totally withdraw the troops in a time frame yes, that is how he won people's votes.
    Now he might go against this idea?
    Whatever some general says is not the point, he won the presidentcey solely on the "bring the troops home" message he said.
    It was a promise, so it now looks like he might well break that promise because of what some general has told him?
    The American people have to question him about this, because sooner or later the guy that gets in power next might well become a dictator.
    What happens then?
    Don't sat say that's impossible in America because it isn't
    Your joking, right?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadratus View Post
    Your joking, right?
    Instead of answering every single one of my posts by saying:you're joking right:
    You're just wrong", etc, etc.
    Why don't you for once prove the article of what i have said is wrong??

  19. #19

    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    What does he have to prove? It is you jumping to rather outlandish conclusion that somehow Obama lied and next president is gonna be a dictator

  20. #20
    Hunter Makoy's Avatar We got 2 words for ya..
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    Default Re: Obama faces split opinion on Iraq future

    Yeah I don't think he outright lied. I think its more of his promise not really mattering as much now because we will be out pretty soon no matter what.
    Under the patronage of Lord Condormanius (12.29.08)
    "Yes, I know why the leaf is turning yellow. Its a lack of chloroform."

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