wtf do I do with anti-infantry?

**jsktrogdor** · February 19, 2009, 06:55 PM

Ive been playing the game a long time and I have never been able to effectivly use any kind of anti-infantry unit (to me thats pretty much any infantry that doesnt have "spearmen" in the name: dismounted knights, etc). If I place them anywhere on my line, guarenteed, every time the AI picks them out and charges their cavalry strait into them basicly destroying the entire unit.

It would be great if I could make an entire front line of them without the AI cavalry demolishing them, but thats not the case. So ive been told that their great "shock" troops for flanking units.....but so are cavalry and their faster and less vunerable to other cavalry.

**Old_Scratch** · February 19, 2009, 08:05 PM

If you are going to get charged, just move them behind your spearmen, or intercept the charge with your own cavalry. I'll usually keep the most relevant infantry out front. If I think I'm going to get cav charged I'll keep my spear or pikes out front. But if I'm ready to charge him I'll move my shock infantry out front and use my spears to fill gaps and protect the rear/flank.

**★Bandiera Rossa☭** · February 19, 2009, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Old_Scratch

If you are going to get charged, just move them behind your spearmen, or intercept the charge with your own cavalry. I'll usually keep the most relevant infantry out front. If I think I'm going to get cav charged I'll keep my spear or pikes out front. But if I'm ready to charge him I'll move my shock infantry out front and use my spears to fill gaps and protect the rear/flank.

Well that summed up what I was going to say real well..

**Muagan_ra** · February 19, 2009, 08:17 PM

I've seen one of my Galligoigh units (spelling?) supposedly the elite shock infantry of the Irish army be reduced from 120 to 40 men, all by a Feudal Cavalry charge.

It left me utterly astonished - they're not *that* powerful cavalry in the Brittannia campaign...

**claudius2007** · February 19, 2009, 09:33 PM

The secret is to keep your heavy infantry line as the SECOND infantry line behind spearmen and other light rable. This was done historically too as the heavy infantry was supposed to engage in battle after the initial charge shock has been absorbed. They are heavily armored and will tear apart any lighter infantry one on one. They can even take on cavalry that has been encircled and poses no danger to charge them (either due to distance or numbers).

**KittySN** · February 19, 2009, 09:42 PM

Shock infantry = delivery of shock during charge, not receiving charges!

This is all very realistic. A mount would annihilate a non without some form of pole arm.

**Ric_English** · February 19, 2009, 10:45 PM

even a very thin line of spearmen or other worthless infantry (i like to use mercs) can absorb the impact of a cav charge. turning and running form them can force them to switch to their swords, a useful little trick for reducing there impact i learned from the milanese AI. also if you use mercs the more you get killed the less you have to pay.

**merocaine** · February 20, 2009, 10:05 AM

I find that most heavy infantry are redundent on the open battle field, I do most of my killing with spears arrows and cavalry.
The main use I have for DMK's and the like is siege warfare, this is where they really come into the own.

**CatharticMoment** · February 20, 2009, 10:14 AM

Agreed - they make ideal units to sit on top of walls and fight off a ladder or siege tower attack.

**Conquistatore** · February 21, 2009, 11:41 PM

Use them to annihilate less armoured and weaker infantry of course. Use them to flank a powerful unit or to ambush some peasants passing by. They, like any other unit apart from spearmen will be decimated by a cavalry charge. However they are quite good at killing cavalry that has reverted to swords and are spread out through your ranks.

**DeMolay** · February 22, 2009, 03:37 AM

i only use them to destroy the ennemy's spearmen units , so that my cavalry has a free hand to cause lots of casualties , as cavalry is far more efficient than the slow heavily armoured infantry or two handers units with axes/polearms for taking out light infantry , archers etc..

IMO , one should always put the spearmen in first line , that's why it's important to get spearmen with good morale or armour rating and don't put too many of those dismounted armoured knights in a full stack , when you rely too much on heavy infantry , you can have bad suprises if the AI has many cavalry units (like sometimes HRE AI fields lots of mounted sergeants and catapults/trebuchet , works wonder on the slow moving heavy infantry ) , IMHO it's less "universal" then having a stack with lots of spears , cavalry and archers which normally can face any kind of army setup in theory , for me heavy infantry is a bonus but not necessary , i rarely use more than 2-3 units of them in a full stack of 20 , except with the Danes though

**General Tony** · February 22, 2009, 08:09 AM

For me infantry is tops. I have never been one to field much cavalry as after the charge they have no other real big advantages and can be killed easily if not retreated after caharging. This results in my armies being more infantry based with a few cavalry for support. The way i set up the infantry is spearmen are my front line to take the initial charge then my heavy infantry behind them. When my spearmen are faltering or the enemy is to great in numbers I send my infantry to bolster weakaning positions then send others charging through my spears to hack away at the enemy. I then take my spare units like cavalry to smash the enemys back. This way I seems to give me alot out of my heavy infantry

**DeMolay** · February 22, 2009, 11:17 AM

But what type of infantry do you use mate , cause dismounted feudak knights for instance , some cost 220 or even 300 , i always prefer to get some cavalry instead , but it's true that you have to retreat them back and charge during the battles many times , some people don't like this .

What i like is to take about 7-8 units of cavalry in your stack , about 4 archers and all the rest with spearmen with good morale (works well with Sicily ) and only 2 or 3 max of heavy infantry , for instance your general + 4-6 heavy cavalry and 1-2 light cavalry (or just your general and 6-8 Horse Archers ) , i make groups of 2 cavalry units and flank the ennemy with each group , at the very first start of the battle i charge the archers and infantry if possible then i send the 2 group to flank by the left and right sides once my spearmen are in the melee holding the front line , other groups flank by the rear and take care of the ennemy general (usually helped by my general) .

I think the way you do it is good too , it's a question of preference , i do like you sometimes , depending the faction , for instance Vikings do not have very good spears and have very nice infantry so i rather play with their strengths , but i noticed that when you face armies with many horse archers or longbowmen , it's useful to have a fast strike force to blitz their ranged units or horse archers , for instance last time my crusade (with many fanatics , pilgrims and dismounted knights ) was murdered by Mongols with many Horse archers , archers , ribaud etc. , but when i sent an army with Templars knights + horse archers , a few mounted sergeants with good armour , and several of reliable spears units + 2 arbalesters well placed , i could quickly overrun them

**Ric_English** · February 22, 2009, 07:47 PM

i arm primarily light cavalry and at best a demi or conquistador. ill tell you what they all have similar impact on heavy infantry without spears even with pole arms. The kind of line i hate attacking most with cavalry of any kind is a disorganized one. i know that it makes little sense but you could try putting a unit or two of peasants out in front in loose formation to absorb the impact. They'll be slaughtered of course but the enemies cavarly will have been stopped and you can cut them apart with your HI. Im just telling you the things that frusterate me as a cavalry guy.

**DeMolay** · February 22, 2009, 08:50 PM

Nice idea Ric , it's true that when surrounded by heavy infantry , cavalry should be in serious trouble , never tried or experienced this technique with peasants but it's a good idea to test in battle , i'll try it

**Mithrane** · February 24, 2009, 11:50 AM

Once you get pikes, HI become very very effective vs Cavalry. Put a 1 man thick line of HI in front of the 3-5 deep pikes. The pikes will stop the cavalry's charge, the HI will rip the surviving to shreds. This works well vs any open ground units, actually.

**townie33** · February 26, 2009, 12:02 AM

You don't necessarily need a large number of spears to protect your line of HI. You can screen you lines with cavalry, they are mobile and if you catch a charging enemy cavalry unit in the side with your cav they are done. I also have found that the likes to use their cavalry to pick at the sides of my formation so thats where I put my spearmen. Maybe its just me but I have never really had any issues.

**jsktrogdor** · February 26, 2009, 05:14 AM

Ive played around with the suggestion to slip a few units behind my spearmen and found it very helpful. Its the natural thing to do but when Ive tried it in the past I always felt it a bit clumsy and overly-complicated. I suppose ive gotten a little bored with the default spears/bows/lances battle that follows the same three steps. It is clumsy, but if your put some practice into timeing it works really well.