Spartan Thorakitai - Inputs needed

[Hurlbut]

I would appreciate any feedback on this unit. Why shouldn't the Spartans employ the thorakitai, when it first appeared in Greece, that's as good as the phalangite if not better and a throwback to the old days of the hoplite?
Should I remove the javelin? If I do, it mean I can put in the shield wall.


type greek heavy infantry_spartan
dictionary greek_heavy_infantry_spartan ; Spartan Thorakitai
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Medium_1
soldier greek_infantry_heavy_spartan, 50, 0, 1.5
mount_effect horse +2, camel +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1, 1.66, 2, 3.33, 5, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 11, 2, javelin_heavy, 45, 3, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.8 ; Ranged
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown ap
stat_sec 7, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.65 ; Spear
stat_sec_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_6
stat_pri_armour 7, 10, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 2, 0, 3, 0
stat_mental 24, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1200, 600, 90, 180, 1200

[Scutarii]

The Spartans were the last holdouts of the Classical Greek style of warfare, and so never adopted the more innovative types of warfare, such as the Thorikitai/Thuropheuroi/Macedonian Phalanx (although they did adopt this one eventually (I think), it was extremely late). Several attempts to reform Sparta's economic, social and political structures (which were also outdated and probably led to their undoing), but too late and in vain.

Personally, I would just put in some Krypteia or something for a Spartan unique unit.

[Hurlbut]

Hey, in XGM, they have a recovering population

[Dog Fart]

I have done little "what ifs" like this in some games. For example, it's 53 bc and Sparta is one of the most advanced cities and still my capital,ect. If Sparta had survived that long and grew that prosperous, I'm sure they would have been forced to adopt new ways of war. But there are plenty of mercenaries and AoR units that can represent this, which fits in better with history as well. So I don't see any point in it. But if you want something to do, go for it.

[Spartan198]

I wouldn't mind having a Spartan Thorakitai unit in my game.

[RedFox]

I wouldn't mind having a few Dark Templars in my unit rosters either. It's a matter of opinion I guess, though we should try and follow common sense and historical accuracy. And I second dirty_M's opinion. Mercenaries should reflect this well enough.

[Spartan198]

I wouldn't mind having a few Dark Templars in my unit rosters either.

Neither would I. That looks pretty bad @$$.

[Zarax]

Err, spartans actually employed thorakitai, more or less at the same time as the adoption of the macedonian phalanx.

RS2 has a nice preview of it: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142035

[RedFox]

Oops? Now isn't that interesting.. Wonder if it has any historical backing, perhaps? I'm not sure about Spartan military at all. Just thinking that changes like those were never too severe / major and reached only a few soldiers, while most other troops retained their usual way of fighting and equipment.

[Zarax]

Mind that those were most likely recruited from the periokoi and were not "real" spartans.
Imho the standard thorakitai already covers this unit and Sparta doesn't deserve a special version of it.

[Dog Fart]

I guess this means we won't be seeing RedFox in here as often. Too bad, he can certainly liven up a dead thread.

[Zarax]

Meh, they still would be ok, especially compared to the carthaginian upgrade for their sacred band:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They prefer high tech solutions

[RedFox]

Someone should seriously make a light Starcraft mod for RTW. It would be an interesting challenge.. Having 2000 zerglings on screen would be a blast. Plus, they can use the dog animations, so not much work needed except for some major modeling and texturing.

[Cal20]

Someone should seriously make a light Starcraft mod for RTW. It would be an interesting challenge.. Having 2000 zerglings on screen would be a blast. Plus, they can use the dog animations, so not much work needed except for some major modeling and texturing.

That person should be you, RedFox. Drop the new version of DTW and start a SC mod har har. Maybe onagers could be siege tanks. Trouble with any flying units though .
uh oh off topic! imo should put some Krypteia back in like Scutarii recommended.

[jakobh94]

I think we got it there

[Dog Fart]

Why bother with Spartan Thorakitai? Spartiate Teddy Bears are far more formidable.

[Solo1906]

They would have more than likely NOT been Spartans. Maybe a unit used by Sparta but - enfranchised citizen type unit but not spartans themselves.

[aznflea]

spartans were hoplites and used only to hold the line. come to think of it spartans didnt have much tactics except to just push the line.

[Spartan198]

come to think of it spartans didnt have much tactics except to just push the line.

And sandwich themselves between mountains and oceans.