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Thread: [AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

  1. #21
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    in the ARR forum the ChivTW people won't see it. Out of sight and all that
    That's the point. See my edit in this concerning post.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    I just realise that the majority of ChivTW AAR's were moved entirely to this forum.

    Here is the sticky ChivTW AAR listing thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64776 ... from on ca. AAR 20 or so, they aren't moved to this AAR forum.

    The first move probably happened as this AAR-forum was created, i remember Power Wizard asked me if he can achieve them in this AAR-forum, and i accepted of course.
    But i didn't know they can't exist in both places at the same time, i have to admit.

    To have this consequent, all ChivTW AAR's should be either here or in the ChivTW forum, imo. At least a mix looks odd.

    And well, clear is, if those AAR's are only here, that the ChivTW forum users won't see them, including me ... and this is the most bad side, because i use AAR's as balance indicators for the development.

    I actually guess, it would be better if all ChivTW AAR's stay in the ChivTW forum, and a "CTW AAR" thread with a link would be added here.
    #Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
    #"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
    Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
    #"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
    #My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
    #End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.

  3. #23

    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    I should note for anyone reading this - ChivTW does not use the spear/light_spear attack attributes. This means if you see a spearman without the "Bonus fighting Cavalry" it means they have *no* bonus whatsoever. (Spear would give +8 attack vs horse, Light_Spear would give +8 defense)

    As far as I know, Feudal Sergeants and Dismounted Sergeants have +1 vs horse, and Vassal MAA have +3, while Feudal MAA have +4.

    In comparison, please note that the Dogheads have -1 vs horse. This means that when you compare a DH and a sergeant unit, if the enemy horse has 4 or more armor, the DH basically is better (attack wise, anyway, dismounted sergeants have better defences)

    This means when the enemy takes out horse with 12 armor (knights - which are the main problem we're looking to counter):
    • Exp. 1 Dogheads: Effective attack of 1+1+6-1=7
    • Exp. 1 Feudal/Dismounted Sergeants: Effective attack of 1+1+1=3
    • Exp. 1 Vassal Men At Arms: Effective attack of 1+1+3=5
    • Exp. 1 Feudal Men At Arms: Effective attack of 1+1+4=6
    • Exp. 2 Varlets of Bohemia: Effective attack of 2+2+6-1=9*
    • Exp. 3 Varlets of Bohemia: Effective attack of 2+3+6-1=10**
    • Exp. 1 Custom House Militia: Effective attack of 1+1+6+1=9

    * Exp 2 Varlets from Execution Places + Dungeon (Level 2 Law Enforcement, requires tier 3 city)
    ** Exp 3 Varlets from Tower (Level 3 Law Enforcement, requires Tier 5 city)

    Also, knights (and most medium, but not light) cavalry have Armor Piercing, so armored units have defenses that are worse than they seem. Of 12 total defense, a Doghead has 3 from armor. A Vassal MAA of 19 total defense has 8 from armor.

    Not sure if AP rounds up or down - can anyone remind me of this? The Complete EDU guide says:
    Armour piercing. Attacks take into account only half of the defender's armour value (not defense or shield). Results are rounded up.
    I am not sure if results for the attack or the armor are rounded up. I would guess armor of 3 is reduced to 1.5 and then rounded to 2.

    If I'm right, Doghead loses 1 armor, to a total defense of 11, while the Vassal MAA loses 4, to a total defense of 15. Meanwhile, their attacks are 7 vs 5 when against a knight. Add total defense and attack, we get DH-18, vs MAA-20. 2 point difference is pretty ok, until you remember the MAA have an upkeep of 300-ish, vs 190 for the DHs.

    ... what do you know, Custom House Militia does 2 more damage than DHs (+1 vs horse as opposed to -1) but they have 10 total def, 3 of which is from armor, so vs a knight they would do 9 Attack, but have 9 Defense, giving a total of 18. But they're not a "good morale" unit. Guess I won't use them after all. However, the Toll Road + Tax office is good for money, so ... meh.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As a side-note, the DH unit seems really good, as it has armor piercing and a good total defense/shield. Only problem is they can't be trained in too many places. There's my capital and the city of mine to the immediate east. And another two cities south of those two (or maybe only one, I can't remember). As you can imagine, shipping these guys all over the map ... will be a pain.

    On the other hand, being able to turn out 2/3 new units a turn, and with retraining being really fast ... we'll see.
    Last edited by Alavaria; February 25, 2009 at 03:14 PM.

  4. #24
    bomberboy's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Good AAR I'll vote later.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    The contents of this post were moved to the one above it. Please delete if you see this
    Last edited by Alavaria; February 28, 2009 at 12:16 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    First, build the Varlets. Not only are they the strongest troops (especially when you'll have them at exp. off the bat), but they frighten enemy infantry and have a good charge. Since, no matter how good your troops are, on VH you will pretty soon run into AI troops you simply will not be able to beat in a straightforward slugging match without losing two or trhee times their numbers, you'll be needing all the morale advantages you can get to make them rout, when you can then slaughter them.

    Second, go for the rebels first, and first head East, where you should have a good buffer between you and the nearest AI faction. Why? because, as hard as they can be, rebels won't spam full stacks at you. After a couple of battles you'll hold their city and won't have to worry about them evermore. Even when they're near to each other and co-operate, I've never seen more than one full stack per province, which means that once you've beat it, that particular bunch of rebels is toast. On the other hand, any AI faction worth it's salt will soon be able to spam you with armies, and nothing is more frustrating than having to defeat an ever-replenished fullstack each turn. So I'd say first develop your economy to the point where you can field two armies at once, then invade your neighbours.

  7. #27

    Default Re: [CTW AAR] Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Quote Originally Posted by CirdanDharix View Post
    First, build the Varlets. Not only are they the strongest troops (especially when you'll have them at exp. off the bat), but they frighten enemy infantry and have a good charge. Since, no matter how good your troops are, on VH you will pretty soon run into AI troops you simply will not be able to beat in a straightforward slugging match without losing two or trhee times their numbers, you'll be needing all the morale advantages you can get to make them rout, when you can then slaughter them.
    I was actually wondering how much those stack, because knights and so on pretty much all frighten infantry and have morale bonuses for nearby troops.
    Quote Originally Posted by CirdanDharix View Post
    Second, go for the rebels first, and first head East, where you should have a good buffer between you and the nearest AI faction. Why? because, as hard as they can be, rebels won't spam full stacks at you. After a couple of battles you'll hold their city and won't have to worry about them evermore. Even when they're near to each other and co-operate, I've never seen more than one full stack per province, which means that once you've beat it, that particular bunch of rebels is toast.
    Rebels must be of the same type "Independent XYZ" to cooperate. I've seen two different types ignore one another as I was siegeing one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by CirdanDharix View Post
    On the other hand, any AI faction worth it's salt will soon be able to spam you with armies, and nothing is more frustrating than having to defeat an ever-replenished fullstack each turn. So I'd say first develop your economy to the point where you can field two armies at once, then invade your neighbours.
    Yep, we're about to get there.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Ala here again. Seems like the votes were for rebel whacking and the Varlet unit. (2 for that, and one for the men-at-arms).

    Let's get back to it then.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Part 4
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    The zoning of a planned inn in Olomouc was greeted with enthusiasm by tired castle workers. And a certain satisfaction by paramilitary recruiters.



    Somewhat less enthusiastic was the noble sent on campaign for failing to keep order in his assigned Bohemian town. His knights, however, were not as displeased to finally get their chance at fame and glory.

    : It's time these rookies saw some action! Why when I was in the Duke's guard, we took on 50 men - each!
    : ...
    : I'm not lying ...

    At that very moment, actually:

    Spoiler for Bashing Rebels (results)






    Krakow, pressed for "troops, any troops," by the Duke, resorted to the age-old practice of sending ... peasants.
    : I don't really care, as long as they get the job down. Gate down, I mean.
    : What's that?
    : More of those brigands - get ready, men!
    : Battle!
    : Move away from the city walls - we need room to mount a truly devastating charge.

    Spoiler for More Rebel Scum! (results)





    : We need reinforcements! What happened to my brother's men?
    1: They're building -
    2: A castle!
    3: A prison!




    : We need men not rocks!
    : Buildings are more than just rocks. Anyway, more knights have arrived.
    : I don't care. Let's be off before the sun sets!
    : Don't worry about him. Anyway, what took you so long? You have good horses.
    : The Franks came around again. Of course the dogheads just let them through the border, since they were allies ...




    : I object! We do our job well enough.
    : You've only ever pushed rams and maybe chopped a few people, what do you know?
    : Back to work, you lot! We have a city to police!
    : On it!

    : Wait, we'll need some of your axes to cut wood and build a ram.
    : My unit volunteers!
    : Excellent. Once we've secured the area you can move in and begin work.
    : We're a military unit, sir, we can take care of ourselves.
    : But you can't march faster than the horse, so just follow your orders.




    : What the hell are they *up* to out there?
    : And here's another re-
    : Why does the Duke need so many men? Oh whatever, is recruitment holding up well?
    : My unit just split into two because we absorbed too many green axes, sir.
    : "Green axes?" Look, just get the men the Duke asked for, make sure they're tolerable and send them out. Good grief.
    : My 15th, as well as the 10th, 8th, 4th
    : Just send them!
    : You heard him. Let's go!
    : Not you captain. I need you around.
    : ... as you command ...



    1: Anyway, I heard that Krakow is a really relaxing place.
    2: That Polish city? What's so special there?


    : Let's take that city!
    : Finally an honest battle!

    Spoiler for Battle for Cherven (results)







    : An onwards, further east!

    Spoiler for Grabbing Galich (results)





    : News! News!
    : Let me guess -



    : Wrong, though that did happen too ...




    : Let's take this city and get back. Where are our infantry?
    : They're trapped in Krakow being sieged?
    : Oh. Well, get the troops that were in the town we just took. We need to hurry and take this before the Hungarians can do anything colosally stupid.
    : ... you know, -
    : I mean besides getting themselves in for an inevitable killing by us, of course.
    : Whatever you say.

    Spoiler for "Taking Galich (results)







    : We need to plan this properly. The enemy are sieging Krakow, but they're in between where we are and the infantry reinforcements.
    : Do we really need the axes?
    : They should come along, yes. We don't know what the Hungarians have out on the field, and taking a risk with an entire city is foolish.


    : Here's how we can go about it. The foot will move to Olomouc, and wait there fore the snow to clear. Meanwhile we move to the bridge north of Krakow. Once the infantry are able to march north, they will meet us and our combined forces will lift the siege.
    : That's a good idea.
    : Lets do it. Horses don't go well with snow.
    : Of course. That too.




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    : We need another two new units. Our Duke reports having taken two rebel settlements with no garrison to speak of.
    : Why does he keep on doing this? Does he want them to rebel?
    : I wouldn't really complain - at least here we are not sitting right at the border with those Hungarians.


    : I don't see why doing so would be a problem anyway. We stand ready -
    : I know all about it. Chivalric honor ... our duty is to ensure the Duke has the forces he deems necessary to defend our borders.
    : You mean expand.
    : Hah. Both, then. We need to get those men out and serving Bohemia, not sitting in taverns getting drunk. There's a lot of work to be done.









    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Part 4 END
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Last edited by Alavaria; March 13, 2009 at 05:55 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Part 5
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    On the border between Hungary and Bohemia, the invaders were caught as they tried to make it back to the lands they had come so arrogantly from. Our noble lord, the Duke, could not allow them to escape unpunished.



    While the infantry planted their feet on solid Bohemian soil (covered as it was with a fine dusting of sparking snow), the knights, proving their confidence in the various arts of war, prepared to step onto Hungarian territory in their pursuit of the aggressors.


    Though they tried valiantly enough, the enemy's archers were both too few and too impotent to even break the rings of a knight's expertly forged chainmail.



    Eager to prove themselves, the youngest Bohemian noble and his sworn knights picked out a small formation of enemy infantry that looked exposed on the enemy's flank.



    After a charge that shook the earth and rent a deep gash into the foot's formation, combat came down to swordwork from horseback. Unable to get relief from the mounted avengers, the enemy could only hope to perish quickly.



    Hungarian men-at-arms put up a brave show of defiance, hoping to buy their allies precious seconds, but, being too small a target, the second unit of knights' charge merely passed by them.



    Whether by luck or misfortune, the battle's second charge, carried out by the former governor of Budziszyn did not manage a solid attack. A few of the enemy's archers, caught in the way of heavy horses and armed men, prevented an orderly attack upon their allied spearmen. Unfortunately for them, their "allies" only watched impassively as the knights tore into the obstacle.



    Trumpets and horns, and the sound of heavy hoof-falls and metal armaments heralded the arrival of the Bohemian Duke and Crown Prince, their vassal knights a glorious multitude arrayed in all the chivalric garb of battle.





    Aiming for the enemy general, the knights, themselves a great host of worshipful men, slammed into the last line of infantry between them and the enemy noble.


    Brutal hand to hand fighting was the order of the day, with Bohemian and Hungarian horsemen pitting their skills against one another in a deadly contest.







    The remaining enemy foot, such as was still organized in defiance, was immediately engaged and cut down by the crown prince, thus clearing the way for our well honorable Duke to engage the enemy's remaining knights.







    To the last, trying to flee from the wrath brought down upon his own head, the Hungarian general was taught the full consequence of his earlier aggression. Such as were left of the enemy were allowed to flee, chargers being unsuitable for more than a casual pursuit. After the battle, loot was divided, and the foot took upon themselves to carry away any that the knights did not lay claim to, or deemed unworthy of attention - many a Hungarian weapon or armor scrap was disdained by those who were already fully armed in the service and protection of Bohemia.


    Enheartened by the cowardice of the enemy, and made bold through the Duke's inspiring words, the army began planning to take by assault a border town of Hungary, eliminating an enemy staging ground.


    Though they were unaware of it, a small enemy force had already departed, making a brief raid into Bohemia, thus evading the siege and postponing their deaths somewhat.

    A couple of court nobles, thinking to prove themselves upon the enemy, and thinking too little to the careful thought and strategy of the Duke, or indeed, proper knightly discipline, attacked the raiders, only to be separately driven back where together they may have succeeded in removing the thorn.

    Spoiler for Battle of the Naive (results)












    The sudden onset of war did not slow development and training in Bohemia's growing number of regions. However, there were legitimate concerns expressed about the security of even Bohemia's heartlands and interior territories.



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Part 5 is OVER
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  10. #30
    Athenogoras's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Big updates Alavaria. I am impressed with all of you AAR-makers and your editing abilities. I am myself barely competent to use spoilers and insert links.

    You have really created an empire beyond the imaginiation of the most ambitious bohemian rulers. I wonder when the HRE will begin a more serious attack and whether the Hungarians are able to counterattack.

    What are your plans? Becoming the undisputed ruler of northern europe attacke HRE:s northern cities and Denmark? Continue your move south against the Hungarians, Settle for now and build up a standing more elite infantryarmy?

    I am very interested in the continuing fate of this slightly weird Bohemian AAR

  11. #31
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Yeah, well-made

    The spoilers don't work for me, won't open.

    And Ala, did you insert the edb fix-update? You know, the 1.0 version has a bug for Poland and Hungary cannot recruit higher feudal units unless the edb-fix is added?
    #Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
    #"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
    Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
    #"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
    #My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
    #End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenogoras View Post
    You have really created an empire beyond the imaginiation of the most ambitious bohemian rulers. I wonder when the HRE will begin a more serious attack and whether the Hungarians are able to counterattack.
    You'll see ... Hungary actually has a stack around. I don't ...
    What are your plans? Becoming the undisputed ruler of northern europe attacke HRE:s northern cities and Denmark? Continue your move south against the Hungarians,
    Westward. Probably establish a standing defense force against Hungary. The HRE towns are better than the Polish ones and don't have the whole unrest problem. Of course we're still allies ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenogoras View Post
    Settle for now and build up a standing more elite infantryarmy?
    Of course, I don't have *an* infantry army, only a few random units of Dogheads following knights around to push rams for them. When we get to armies that have 2 Family members and 18 units of Dogheads, then maybe ... (I'm just joking. I should get a unit or two of the Varlets out before I get into some serious trouble - they're only 1-turn to recruit, too!)
    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    The spoilers don't work for me, won't open.
    I just went through and checked, they seem just fine. Try refreshing the page. If they still won't work after a try or two, I'll remove them - the main use is to prevent a mega-long page, but if they can't be opened it's rather silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    And Ala, did you insert the edb fix-update? You know, the 1.0 version has a bug for Poland and Hungary cannot recruit higher feudal units unless the edb-fix is added?
    That I did not know. But anyway, where I am in the campaign, Hungary will probably be able to tech - they're a little annoying to actually attack ... no real problems their 10000 gold/turn can't fix.
    Last edited by Alavaria; March 07, 2009 at 11:02 AM.

  13. #33
    Athenogoras's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    So west it is. Onwards to flanders my brave dogheads for fame and undying glory. Oh...dont forget to garrison your newly garrisoned hungarian settlement. It is dangerously close to HRE italian heartland.

  14. #34
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Yes, after refreshing the page the spoilers work, strange thing, if i add spoilers into a post, they work without hassle.

    The edb-fix is saved game compatible without any file-trouble. But if added first now means - as i see you are far beyond 1100 AD - that the balance is messed up anyway, as Hungary might have been able already to recruit feudal units in their main settlements to make more trouble in all directions.
    #Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
    #"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
    Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
    #"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
    #My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
    #End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    The edb-fix is saved game compatible without any file-trouble. But if added first now means - as i see you are far beyond 1100 AD - that the balance is messed up anyway, as Hungary might have been able already to recruit feudal units in their main settlements to make more trouble in all directions.
    Mind you, the HRE doesn't have any feudal units that I've seen, and I would imagine they would have it before Hungary. In any case, it's already so far in, I'll wait for 1.1 before doing something as large as a new AAR.

  16. #36
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    HRE doesn't have any feudal units that I've seen
    ... also no Mounted Sergeants and Dismounted Sergeants?

    Well, i might have to decrease the feudalisation construction-times, slightly? Hmmm ...
    I'll think about in which way i'll push the recruitment of feudal units, although i did it already compared to earlier 0.99.x versions, iirc ... anyway good hint ... and again, here we see that AAR's are a good indicator/helper for the balancing-job.
    #Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
    #"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
    Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
    #"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
    #My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
    #End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    ... also no Mounted Sergeants and Dismounted Sergeants?
    Nope. The HRE has a bunch of levies (of course). I've also seen Frankish Horsemen (from the inn/tavern) and armored spears (norman men at arms? from the spearmaker)

    On that note, the AI really loves the "mercenary" units from the inns - particularly the light horse. Sometimes also the infantry. I'm pretty used so seeing 3-4 units of Axe Bearer Mercenaries and Light Cavalry. The issue might be that the first 2 levels of Feudalization give units that are slightly better than militia/tavern troops. The AI seems to prever building economy instead, I think (and spams stacks of the merc/militia/levy troops).
    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    Well, i might have to decrease the feudalisation construction-times, slightly? Hmmm ...
    That actually nearly got me in trouble for my first Bohemia campaign.
    See,
    farmland requires factions ...
    construction 6
    cost 2500

    feudum requires ... building_present_min_level armoury_buildings spearmaker
    construction 6
    cost 3500

    knight_estates requires ... and building_present_min_level feudal_horse_breed horse_breed
    construction 9
    cost 4500
    settlement_min city
    upgrades

    horse_breed requires ... and building_present_min_level armoury_buildings spearmaker
    construction 10
    cost 4500
    If you assume the spearmaker is always built anyway (they can be useful for +1 farms sometimes, and of course levy peasants) - that still 31 turns. Some factions can get, after 12 turns, feudum, and recruit vassal knights or something that suitably good.

    The mistake I did before was not advance past level 1 (it gave 5% tax bonus, you see - now it's 3%) and then realize I needed knights, with 25 turns to getting them. Because AI knights aren't really easily defeatable with stuff besides knights.

    It was a fun 12 years though, with tons of Dogheads sacrificing themselves to take down enemy knights (which the AI of course started spamming since it could train them). I also lost quite a few family members in knight fights.

    It might help if the basic Feudal Sergeants were given significantly higher morale (that have 7 stat_mental, spear militia have 6, Vassal MAA have 10). If you gave them even 10 morale they would probably be considered more seriously by the AI. When the AI *does* get around to knights, it seems to spam the Feudals rather than militia. Then again, spear militia train in 2 turns, the sergeants train in 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    I'll think about in which way i'll push the recruitment of feudal units, although i did it already compared to earlier 0.99.x versions, iirc ... anyway good hint ... and again, here we see that AAR's are a good indicator/helper for the balancing-job.
    Note that, for me at least, it's only really the knights that are useful.

    For example:
    type feudal sergeants
    .... mount_effect horse +1
    ... stat_pri 1, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, other, piercing, spear, 10 ,0.4
    ... stat_pri_armour 4, 4, 5, leather
    ...
    stat_cost 1, 450, 225, 70, 75, 400
    type dismounted sergeants
    ... mount_effect horse +1
    ... stat_pri 1, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,0.4
    ... stat_pri_armour 7, 4, 5, leather
    ... stat_cost 1, 580, 260, 70, 75, 400
    dictionary maa_aor ; Vasall MAA
    ... mount_effect horse +3
    ... stat_pri 1, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,0.4
    ... stat_pri_armour 8, 4, 6, metal
    ... stat_cost 2, 825, 310, 80, 100, 620
    The sergeants aren't as useful as the Vasall MAA (the Feudal MAA are even better). The V-MAA are trainable from just a spearmaker in places like the capital cities, usually.

    One thing of note - you can't tell from in-game, but Feudal MAA have +4 vs horse, and the Vasall MAA have +3. You can also train Feudals in more places, but that needs a level 2 - spearmaker and swordsmith.

    Personally, I have wondered if it's possible to do without knights. Even on VH, I think the AI is stupid enough with it's heavy horse (getting a formed charge off with them isn't something I usually see it accomplish) that it might somehow be doable ... though you might need a general with some +morale for the troops (and AP troops, of course).
    Last edited by Alavaria; March 07, 2009 at 04:53 PM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Note that, for me at least, it's only really the knights that are useful.
    That's because you make a campaign a sports event ... and as said, you don't play in any shape historical.

    We'll see for the development, that 1.1 won't provide the same easy base to make blitz campaigns, and perhaps to teach players to learn history to a degree and having fun with a historical play

    Perhaps i'll position also more ambushing heavy-class rebels in the woods ... but only if i get enough time.
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Part 6
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    With the Duke's men busy with the construction of battering rams for the assault on Nyitra, the Duke had time to settle some of the paperwork that had somehow made it's way all around to where he was on campaign.

    : It's those diplomats - they carry payloads of these forms and domestic development requests.
    : Sir, that's not what diplomats should be doing ...
    : True, but whenever I'm at the capital, I always get loaded down with all these for the Duke.
    : Oh well, what do they want now?



    The Duke cast an approving vote for the granting of expanded local rights to Olomouc. Though the other nobles might argue for a good while yet, nevertheless eventually they would fall into line. It would defninitely be an important military and possibly economic center, given its proximity to the capital.



    There were more reports of the Franks. This time they came unsettlingly close to the capital.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    [B]
    And the assault was on!



    >>

    >>


    Pushing their creaking wooden war engines across the pre-hardened snow -

    : You see, all you need to do is use a torch to melt the top surface a little, then it re-freezes into smooth ice. Break it along where you walk, but leave it where the ram goes and it makes for easy pushing.
    : Thank you for teaching us, sir!

    >>

    ...

    The strategy was rather simple - the enemy had one unit of infantry guarding a breach in their walls. The two supporting nobles would ride straight into the breach and engage them. This would probably draw the enemy knights, but they would be blocked by their own foot. The Duke and crown prince would ride in through the unguarded gates and take on the enemy knights directly.











    While the knights were engaged in honorable battle, the Dogheads poured into the enemy walls through breeches and the broken gate., unimpeded.

    : For honor, glory and loot!
    : All units are to support the Duke and his men! Forward the flag of Bohemia!
    : You heard him, attack!
    : Attack!!!








    Speaking of flags, there was an intense duel between the Bohemian and Hungarian flag bearers for each nation's leader. The Bohemian won out. There was only a brief lull in the fighting, before swords went back to work. However ...



    : This is how that Polish noble died.
    Attacked from behind!


    Spoiler for Post Battle








    : If we take this, the pass north of the city will be securely in our hands.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





    Two nobles, fancying themselves capable missionaries, set out to convert the town of Galich, on the edge of Bohemian land.



    Krakow, only becoming more rebellious as it grew, was slated to have its own detention facility.



    A tribe of "Cumans" was encountered even further east of Galich.
    : Danes to the north and now these Cumans! Will wonders never cease?



    : The Duke requires more men? He shall have them!
    : Bohemia wants YOU! Sign up today for military service!

    More troop requisition orders were delievered to the capital. The new governor was a lot less worried about it than the earlier one, who had decided campaigning the less stressful of the two.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Chevren, now properly under order, commenced cutting wood to prepare a control post for the local garrison.



    In Galich, the "missionaries" arrived and prepared to call in the inquisitors, to clear out the Pagans.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








    Most improbably, a small Bohemian raiding force had managed to sneak through the pass. Once found, they were promptly destroyed. The pass was then renamed "The Hungry Pass".

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    In Wroclaw, a "spearmaker" set up shop, ready to supply the local peasants with the weapons they needed to form a proper police force.

    : Patrolling is boring anyway.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    There was a small skirmish in Hungry Pass. The Hungarians, though furious at the mockery of Bohemia, were forced to retreat to the safety of their walls.




    The eastern franks came around again, this time with a commander and a small force. Nobles in the capital began mustering a stronger defense force for the city.
    : Recruitment will have to use 25% for us to meet expected demands from the Duke as well as expand the city garrison.
    : Can you do it?
    : A bit of a stretch, I'm afraid.
    : Do your best. I'll speak with the Duke about it.


    : Damn it, don't tell me I can't get more men when I'm about to start a battle!
    : Well, I'm just the messenger. I was told to "ask" if you needed so many.
    : We'll just have to call up some foot from wherever. Surely some town can spare enough men to push a ram ...
    : Somehow I feel glad to be riding to possible battlefields.
    : So are all the men, my lord.
    : We should reach the Duke's forces soon, if they are still in Nyitra.

    ... They weren't.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    This time, even the Church was stymmied. The pagans refused to give up their idols and ancestor worship.




    After many requests, Mechlenburg was finally allowed to begin port construction. It was hoped that good money could be made trading with the Danes to the north, who had fine items, like furs, to sell.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    : A fur coat would be just the thing to keep me warm. And it goes well with armor! As does a lot of things, like a mount and weaponry.
    : Enemies!
    : I don't know about fur coats, but at least we have armor, weapons and mounts.
    : Retreat! Where are those reinforcements? We can't take the city without them.
    : The enemies have retreated into their walls, sir.
    : No! Now it will be a bloody mess to take them down.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




    Tired of "surprises," Praha began to commission two "intelligence experts". Additionally, a "spearmaker" was given license.
    : Axes beat spears, but spear-like things can be used to dig farmland!
    : They're called "spades" or "shovels" you know.
    : ... who are you?
    : Later.




    Olomouc began recuitmen of a viable military garrison to replace it's older spear militia one.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    To safeguard their rear, a small fortified field camp was set up at the foot of the Hungry Pass.




    Catching a small force of Hungarian reinforcements enroute to Muncaks, the knights promptly crushed it




    >>

    However, despite this victory, calmer heads prevailed and they set off back towards Nyitra, to secure the foot reinforcements that were waiting to participate in the siege.




    Poznan began recruitment of levied peasants in order to maintain law and order in various settlements - mostly ex-Polish. The intent was to free up Doghead garrisons in order to allow them to join field battles.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Another blow to the age of chivalry.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Part 6 END
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Last edited by Alavaria; March 13, 2009 at 05:54 PM.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Swords & Axes ~OR~ Bohemian Roadroller

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    That's because you make a campaign a sports event ... and as said, you don't play in any shape historical.
    To be honest though, compared to spear militia, the Feudal Sergeants don't look that good. The Vassal MAA are awesome though, so I tend to make a lot of them.

    And you said I had too high a concentration of knights ... just because my knights follow a noble, rather than just group together under ... uh ... (a flagbearer?)

    It should settle down to about:

    • 2 Family members (non FL/heir)
    • 2 units of heavy cavalry (knights)
    • 4 units of armored spearmen
    • 10 units of Dogheads (they screen themselves, otherwise 8 units of AP, 2 for screening)
    • 2 units for anything else (more knights, or a pair of catapaults...) - now it'll be 2 units of Varlets of Bohemia most probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    We'll see for the development, that 1.1 won't provide the same easy base to make blitz campaigns
    Sure it won't. We'll still just start with 50 auto-retraining heavy horse
    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    , and perhaps to teach players to learn history to a degree and having fun with a historical play

    Perhaps i'll position also more ambushing heavy-class rebels in the woods ... but only if i get enough time.
    :hmmm:
    The AI isn't very historical, except in the "armies of peasants" and "routing" parts. When it gets around to having the following:
    • 1 Family member
    • 4 units of light horse
    • 2 units of heavy horse (knights)
    • 2 units of heavy swords/axe men
    • 4 units of armored spearmen
    • 3 units of peasants/archers
    • 3 units of Feudal Sergeants[.

    Then you see an army with half of them in chain-mail and it gets rediculous, especially when you see several of these within the span of a few turns ... (thank goodness for retraining).

    In particular, the larger factions love to spam stacks of elites when they can, just for the player ...
    Last edited by Alavaria; March 07, 2009 at 05:19 PM.

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