American Political Culture: Nonsense to the Max

[Tajir]

So,

A rural middle class man votes for the Republican party which is in support of tax breaks for those who make above $250k simply because he wants stricter border control. Typical scenario where I'm from.

Those same Republicans give major tax breaks to large corporations who will undoubtedly outsource his middle-income computer science/engineering occupation to a man in China or India. In the meantime, his middle class income could've earned him cheaper rates on labor with the help of Mexican immigrants (of both the legal and illegal variety), who on the other hand would not dare touch his middle income occupation.

That's just one of 700 "What the F" and "Why the F" questions begging to be asked in the American political culture.

Maybe someone can post some useful information on the political spectrum to me, because a lot of what's going on in today's political climate seems to be backwards, upside down, and ultimately retarded to me.

[Thorn777]

Thats a question bothering philosophers for centurys.

Today, Id say that emotional attachments are causing much of this, because its easier for the average joe working a 9-17 job, to listen to the TV-man, then to turn to forming an opinion through intense research and alike.

If we would keep it real, any one of us without children should be out in the streets rebelling anyway, but dont we all just want to feel a bit fuzzy after a long day of work?

[Maverick]

It's a new thing where the elites everyone else.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Oh flying spaghetti monster where to begin?

Let's start with a question for Tajir. What are the reasons a middle class person would want lower taxes on high earners?

[Muagan_ra]

It's the political party system - one stance on one issue is inevitably tied up with another. People have to choose based on their priorities, and don't get the chance to vote on individual matters except in Referendum. Constitional government of Independants, I say.

[Avram]

I dunno maybe he understands that tax breaks to small businesses and that tax breaks in general amount to more wealth overall, including for himself.

I mean its a crazy idea that this guy might actually be quite economically intelligent, but hey you never know.

[Viking Prince]

Some thoughts on the issue:

Perhaps the middle class voter would prefer to support a party wanting to lower marginal rates on those more highly taxed than to support the party that wants to eliminate taxes for all those earning less than the middle class voter. Hmmmm?

The silliness is relative. Both extremes are distructive but you are forcing a false decision.

Both parties have much of merit to the middle class voter. Issue by issue support swings from party to party. In the end the voter still has to choose a single candidate for each office.

If you do not like the choices on election day -- get involved and support a candidate before election day that is a better choice for you. who knows, your help may get the candidate on the ballot and he/she may win on election day.

[Admiral Piett]

Some thoughts on the issue:

Perhaps the middle class voter would prefer to support a party wanting to lower marginal rates on those more highly taxed than to support the party that wants to eliminate taxes for all those earning less than the middle class voter. Hmmmm?

The silliness is relative. Both extremes are distructive but you are forcing a false decision.

Both parties have much of merit to the middle class voter. Issue by issue support swings from party to party. In the end the voter still has to choose a single candidate for each office.

If you do not like the choices on election day -- get involved and support a candidate before election day that is a better choice for you. who knows, your help may get the candidate on the ballot and he/she may win on election day.

Will never happen. What you describe is FAR more optimistic than the reality of our political system.

[IrishHitman]

So,

A rural middle class man votes for the Republican party which is in support of tax breaks for those who make above $250k simply because he wants stricter border control. Typical scenario where I'm from.

Those same Republicans give major tax breaks to large corporations who will undoubtedly outsource his middle-income computer science/engineering occupation to a man in China or India. In the meantime, his middle class income could've earned him cheaper rates on labor with the help of Mexican immigrants (of both the legal and illegal variety), who on the other hand would not dare touch his middle income occupation.

That's just one of 700 "What the F" and "Why the F" questions begging to be asked in the American political culture.

Maybe someone can post some useful information on the political spectrum to me, because a lot of what's going on in today's political climate seems to be backwards, upside down, and ultimately retarded to me.

One phrase: Social Issues.

[Zephyrus]

So,

A rural middle class man votes for the Republican party which is in support of tax breaks for those who make above $250k simply because he wants stricter border control. Typical scenario where I'm from.

Those same Republicans give major tax breaks to large corporations who will undoubtedly outsource his middle-income computer science/engineering occupation to a man in China or India. In the meantime, his middle class income could've earned him cheaper rates on labor with the help of Mexican immigrants (of both the legal and illegal variety), who on the other hand would not dare touch his middle income occupation.

That's just one of 700 "What the F" and "Why the F" questions begging to be asked in the American political culture.

Maybe someone can post some useful information on the political spectrum to me, because a lot of what's going on in today's political climate seems to be backwards, upside down, and ultimately retarded to me.

I'd like to congratulate you on your rare ability to vent your frustration on an internet forum instead of righteously kicking ass in your hometown. Props for that.

But the middle-income guy's problem is lack of information about his economical condition. You must strive to educate such folks in the arts of politics, which is their constitutional right to do so.

[Darkside]

There are of course many things to consider when peering into the seemingly contradictory philosophy which envelops those who support these policies through their voting support, and those who offer these people things which, if taken objectively, seem to be against their best interests. In this post I will do my best to describe to you, in short, not the pyschology profile (not into any substantial detail anyway) of these people, but a summation and generalized explanation regarding their political affiliations.

Firstly, they have been introduced to these ideals by their parents (I know, that's mostly psychological, sorry).

They understand very keenly that the key to American's innovation over the last century that has spawned our fortunate and unprecendented growth has been the independent and unregulated incentive given to the industrial and commerical sectors of this country, due in small part to the untapped natural resources of this country combined with the great growth that our novel and logically (but IMPO not realistically true) radical shape of government has tempted from other nations around the globe.

They therefore understand that before the rises of these industries that our country wasn't anything more noticeable than any other. When I say noticeable, I mean in a fashion that attracts such a cosmopolitan disposition of trade, fear, respect (perhaps), and, putting it bluntly, envy.

They see these companies and organization in the way in which the previous generations of America within this century saw it: all of us, ballooned with great pride within ourselves, and not too much worried about the policies and impositions of the U.S. directed upon foreign powers.

Their (IMPO) great flaw is that they have failed to take into account the rapid change which the revolutions in transportation, of information exchange, of inherent cultural diffusion amongst any nation but mostly ours has altered the perceptions and the outlook of us Americans. Additionally, they fail to understand that the immigration (hopefully legal) into this country, while spurred by the economic promise they so cherish, is essential to the blending and natural process of cultivating a genuinely unqiue American culture.

Basically put, they want, inherently, the same principles applied to the modern America as were applied to the America of their forebears. They don't understand nor do they empathize with the disruption upon our social fabric that their qualities can be translated as.....

I read a poll very recently that 20 percent of Americans can't even point out the pacific ocean upon a map. I (this is competely true) have heard fellow white Americans ponder out loud, "Is Kansas a State?" (This is just me, but because I can literally draw an entire map of the world from memory, I found this especially hideous) They are removed from the world that they have been dutifully graced with changing and with leading. Because they are mired within the pride and rapture of their past, and succumb to the pleading of the institutions which carried out that past, they have never understood the advantage that looking at the world with a fresh perspective can mean.

I hope that has served to answer any questions you might have, though I realize that it does not account for personal examples nor for other things. This has been an account of my observations of these people.

Oh, and to phrase my feelings on these people in a personal and vernacular manner, F them. F them and their hatred and the division they so adamantly pursue for a cause of ideals that have changed and evolved just as technology has. And F them for not being able to see it.

[Ahlerich]

i discussed this with my cousing a couple days ago. its weird how many lower class and lower middle class men vote republican even though the republicans dont represent them and their needs

we both didnt find a reason for that.

in germany many workers vote left because they want to be represented (even though in germany the left party spd kind of lost its way of supporting the workingclass) wheres business owner tend to vote the right cdu or fdp - parties that suppoprt their needs. i can understand why voters here vote what they vote (without having to agree with their votes)

but in america its beyond my why many voters vote how they do.

[danzig]

i discussed this with my cousing a couple days ago. its weird how many lower class and lower middle class men vote republican even though the republicans dont represent them and their needs

we both didnt find a reason for that.

Maybe because you are looking at a narrow set of issues. Issues such as foreign policy, national security, immigration, general economic issues, the dreaded social issues etc, education etc. There are just so many issues that you cant just go it makes no sense because alot of times it doesnt have to. I for example cant understand why each election 80-90% of black vote just gives itself to Democrats, you cant tell me for example that John Kerry understood issues african americans face any better then George Bush did in 2004. Still it happened, because there are so many factors to take into account.

in germany many workers vote left because they want to be represented (even though in germany the left party spd kind of lost its way of supporting the workingclass) wheres business owner tend to vote the right cdu or fdp - parties that suppoprt their needs. i can understand why voters here vote what they vote (without having to agree with their votes)

Well generally it will go that way here as well but to less of an extreme, if you look at exit polling from past elections you find alot of 55-45%, 51-49% splits down the various groups. You can however generally assume labor union friendly people/members will vote Democrat but it might be 60-40% break on it. Gotta remember americans get riled up about certain issues each election cycle more then other western nations.

[cristophe el perno]

We get that in England too - especially during the 80s (and probably again soon) vast number of lower-middle-class people vote for the Conservatives, a party whose policies have only ever in the past benefitted almost exclusivley the wealthy.

Sadly, the same could be said for working class people voting Labour these days. Tradition comes into it at least as much as common sense really.

[Sven788]

We get that in England too - especially during the 80s (and probably again soon) vast number of lower-middle-class people vote for the Conservatives, a party whose policies have only ever in the past benefitted almost exclusivley the wealthy.

Maybe because people have values instead of voting for something where they profit the most of?

Personally how poor I may become, even if I have no job or live of welfair.
I will never ever vote for a leftish party!

[spartan117]

Well first of all. There are people who vote for Republicans because Republicans are more socially conservative than democrats. However the degree of difference varies based off region of course.

[Farnan]

Well there is more conflict between the Working Class and Welfare Class than Working Class and Upper Class...

[Sphere]

This really has a lot to do with the quirky history of the two American political parties since the Civil War. Here are the key events that led to this strange situation

1.) The Republican party is founded as a anti-slavery northern party and elects Lincoln with urban support in the North. The Democrats are a mostly Southern, rural/agrarian party.

2.) Post Civil War, Republican party is very strong in the North East, repressents the financial, banking and industrial interests. Dominate the early late 1800's & 1900's.

3.) WWI, Wilson (a democrat) is elected as an isolationist as opposed to the Republicans whose buisness interests link them more to the UK and French cause.

4.) Interwar years, booming economy favors lassiez-faire buisness smart republicans. Depression hits Hoover (Rep.), doesn't believe in government intervention, FDR does. Hoover wins only a few industrial North East states. FDR runs the show for a while

5.) Truman takes over, is hammered for being soft on communism, Republican Eisenhower defeats him on a protect-America platform.

6.) Kennedy trumps the protect-America platform with a "missile-gap" platform, along with FDR style domestic policies.

7.) Civil Rights Bills under LBJ split the democratic party, "will we lose the south for a generation" proves more than true. Republicans take advantage and sweep up the south, southerners hitch up to the republican platform, religion becomes more important to the party. Democrats focus their message more to the urban centers in the north and West Coast, and the labor unions in the industrial midwest. Sets the paradigm for the rest of the 1900's

Its unclear if Obama has really shifted this, or that the demographics of some states have just tilted more in the democrats favor.