Detroit needs more money, auto makers say.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Source


It's freaking ridiculous what these companies are doing. Begging for tax-payer money all while cutting tens of thousands of hard-working Americans from work, pay and dignity. All the while men like Rich Wagoner who helped run the company into the damn ground is making millions of dollars a year.

I say Totally nationalize GM, use their facilities and capital to produce a new line of fuel-efficient cars, better then anyone has seen all the while making a Hydrogen fuel cell that can work and that can be mass produced. That would enable us to actually Export cars. I'd say Obama should put that up to national referendum.

[Roths]

Meh.

I'd love to own an air-powered or electric-powered car.

[danzig]

It was already a given that GM would need more money, hell the all but said as much after the first round of loans but nationalization is definitely NOT the solution. Last thing auto industry needs is an even more bloated, incompentent entity running things. What is needed is government to somehow meditate the issues between labor and the company as pensions etc are absolutely bleeding GM dry. Its not that GM produces crap cars.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

It was already a given that GM would need more money, hell the all but said as much after the first round of loans but nationalization is definitely NOT the solution. Last thing auto industry needs is an even more bloated, incompentent entity running things. What is needed is government to somehow meditate the issues between labor and the company as pensions etc are absolutely bleeding GM dry. Its not that GM produces crap cars.

So cut the earnings of more average workers ? No. Most unions now are shams, they'll only fight for their own interests and don't give a damn who it effects (I.E. the Teachers union submarining our public school system by fighting tooth and nail against Charter schools not to mention this whole tenure nonsense) but kowtowing UAW workers into giving up a part of what they make isn't the answer, wages need to go up across the board, the cost of living in this country is crazy and going to get crazier.

And the U.S. Government is not a bloated incompetent entity, it put a man on the moon and won (At least in a large part) Two world wars, it can make a fuel efficient car.

[Thorn777]

FYI They even want to sell OPEL now to gain some bucks. One of their few successful brands. They are pretty desperate.

[Ahlerich]

FYI They even want to sell OPEL now to gain some bucks. One of their few successful brands. They are pretty desperate.

yeah opel is doing well. no need for kurzarbeit and the abwrackpremie (part of the german stimulus plan) works well for opel as well.
i am really worried about the opel workers since 1 or 2 of the factories might be closed by gm. now gm considers selling opel but they cant find a buyer so far. i really wish the german government would step in and buy them out.

hehe for that opinion i am cosidered a communist now i guess.
for me the privatising of many sectors in germany turned out bad and i remember the times when the government was running energy provider, rail etc. i liked those times.

[danzig]

So cut the earnings of more average workers ? No. Most unions now are shams, they'll only fight for their own interests and don't give a damn who it effects (I.E. the Teachers union submarining our public school system by fighting tooth and nail against Charter schools not to mention this whole tenure nonsense) but kowtowing UAW workers into giving up a part of what they make isn't the answer, wages need to go up across the board, the cost of living in this country is crazy and going to get crazier.

Wages no, Im talking retirement, health care etc. The was an article I think in Times or WSJ about typical GM plant vs say Toyota in the US. Wages are almost identical but the overhead for GM per car thanks to retirement, health care, pensions etc was so much greater that it basically becomes a wash for them. Also the idiotic union rules that limit employees to specific jobs even ones that require no specialized technical skills.

And the U.S. Government is not a bloated incompetent entity, it put a man on the moon and won (At least in a large part) Two world wars, it can make a fuel efficient car.

Talking about a different government and a different type of program. Senators and congressmen will fight and scream for a piece of the carmaking business, driving up costs artificially just to nail down the sweet deal for their own state or district. Car manufacturing can be far more "mobile" and less specialized then putting a man on the moon. Now Id be less hostile to a more nationalized approach if it was a) temporary b) appointing to so called auto czar to over see it to avoid congress mess I mentioned above.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Wages no, Im talking retirement, health care etc. The was an article I think in Times or WSJ about typical GM plant vs say Toyota in the US. Wages are almost identical but the overhead for GM per car thanks to retirement, health care, pensions etc was so much greater that it basically becomes a wash for them. Also the idiotic union rules that limit employees to specific jobs even ones that require no specialized technical skills.

The Guy working in the plant for his life has done far more then enough to earn a decent retirement. If GM wasn't so terribly run, and could actually sell a car as well as not let it fly totally over their heads that fuel efficient and later, cars run on alternative fuel sources are the things of the future. GM has had problems making a good product since the 80's, you don't get such a bad rep for making a good product.

Talking about a different government and a different type of program. Senators and congressmen will fight and scream for a piece of the carmaking business, driving up costs artificially just to nail down the sweet deal for their own state or district. Car manufacturing can be far more "mobile" and less specialized then putting a man on the moon. Now Id be less hostile to a more nationalized approach if it was a) temporary b) appointing to so called auto czar to over see it to avoid congress mess I mentioned above.

Of course it would be temporary, the state should never have control over something like that for so long, but the point is that the current Leadership of GM cannot act coherently and quickly at a time when the country is in crisis. I say that you need to have a firm hand at times like these, and to be honest the typical conservative argument against this is bollocks since they at the same time can justify torture because of the war on terror.

Thats why they will probably end up having to declare bankruptcy. they really have to get rid of the ridiculous pensions and union crap. Unions have run their course they serve little purpose now but to get in peoples ways. I'm very happy i live in a right to work state.

It's also worth mentioning that the minimum wage and average workers rage are lower in right to work states then in states without it.

[Hunter Makoy]

So cut the earnings of more average workers ? No. Most unions now are shams, they'll only fight for their own interests and don't give a damn who it effects (I.E. the Teachers union submarining our public school system by fighting tooth and nail against Charter schools not to mention this whole tenure nonsense) but kowtowing UAW workers into giving up a part of what they make isn't the answer, wages need to go up across the board, the cost of living in this country is crazy and going to get crazier.

Thats why they will probably end up having to declare bankruptcy. they really have to get rid of the ridiculous pensions and union crap. Unions have run their course they serve little purpose now but to get in peoples ways. I'm very happy i live in a right to work state.

And the U.S. Government is not a bloated incompetent entity, it put a man on the moon and won (At least in a large part) Two world wars, it can make a fuel efficient car.

unfortunately we are dealing with a far different generation of people, and different part of government. Back then, they would have made a more fuel efficient car simply for the challenge.

[Quadratus]

Sell that jet of theirs.

[Random Emperor]

You have your chance now move along to bankruty, people

[Amadeus]

life isn't fair. if you want a good job and get good money get good skills.

i couldn't agree any more with that statement

also the government should just let GM die out.
that is the way the market works.
if you can't adapt your product to a changing market then the company should die out
and let a new company emerge.
and i know that thousands of hard working americans will be put out of a job
but thats life.
thats the way a free market works.
and running around worrying only about AMERICAN jobs isn't really going to fix a crisis that is now global

[Ahlerich]

i couldn't agree any more with that statement

the statement was get a good education and a good job.

i just wanted to remind you that in north america not everybody can afford this good education. its not as nice as in germany.
my gf finishes a 4 year bachelor university degree in architecture and already has about 25000$ debt that she now has to pay interest for. and she even won scholarships worth 10000$ so she could easily be 30000$ in dept. and bachelor is still no solid good education.




(sideremark: i hate rich kids)

[Admiral Piett]

GM. Let them go under. They've been going to crap since the late 80s anyway. GM needs to do everyone a favor and just go out of business. The jobs will go to Ford and Chrysler who will become more successful as well as new companies being allowed to fill in the vacuum. Change in the market is good for everyone. Different cars, different ideas, and potentially better jobs.

[Hunter Makoy]

hell even this cars being made again. Thats a design that could be implemented more in todays market.

[Admiral Piett]

Heh, that is my dream car, Hunter. A small business manufactures them in Central Texas.

[Hunter Makoy]

yeah, the DMC company in Houston, TX (not really central). Ever since i was about 5 I dreamed of that car, and then it turned out i live in the ing Mecca of Delorean parts.

[Yorkshireman]

yeah, the DMC company in Houston, TX (not really central). Ever since i was about 5 I dreamed of that car, and then it turned out i live in the ing Mecca of Delorean parts.

They are building Deloreans again?

There was only about 9,000 originally produced from the factory in Belfast after an investment of around $100 million!

I can still remember seeing the video tape on tv of John Delorean when he got mixed up in an FBI drug trafficking sting.

[Admiral Piett]

There is also a small business in Katy, TX that builds them.

[Hunter Makoy]

it might be technically in Katy. Katy is right outside of Houston. So alot of times it will be referred to as Houston since most people wont have heard of Katy.