Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Baghdad - Sheikh Mohammad al-Ethawi, resplendent in his gold-trimmed robe and white headdress, hands out oranges to Shiite pilgrims walking by a striped tent on the main route to the holy city of Karbala.

    Sheikh Ethawi is Sunni. The Doura highway, where more than a million pilgrims – largely Shiite – are walking for the first time in three years, passes through what had been one of Baghdad's most violent neighborhoods. Their numbers and Ethawi's presence are a sign of the easing of sectarian tensions that almost ripped this country apart.

    "A lot of people were afraid last year," says Ethawi, the head of the Hathar tribal council in southern Baghdad. The council, a mix of Sunni and Shiite leaders, is hosting a rest stops that offers food, drinks, and shelter along the roads choked with pilgrims, who walk for days to reach the holy city. The pilgrimage commemorates Arbaeen, the end of 40 days of mourning for the death of the prophet Muhammad's grandson Hussein in battle 13 centuries ago.

    The Iraqi government launched a massive security effort for this year's pilgrimage that culminated Monday with an estimated 6 million people gathering in Karbala. Most seemed undeterred by scattered attacks along the route, including a female suicide bomber who killed at least 40 people when she blew herself up at a rest stop south of Baghdad and another bomb in Karbala that killed eight.

    "It was a small explosion," says Jamil Dawoud, driving through Radwaniyah, 10 miles south of the capital, on his way back from the holy city.

    Mr. Dawoud, a stonemason, had stopped at a table where both Shiite and Sunni security volunteers, known as the Sons of Iraq, had lowered their rifles to flag down passing cars, ladling orange drinks out of a big plastic tub and passing around trays of sesame cookies.

    The rural area where one of Saddam Hussein's larger palaces rises just beyond the hayfields and date palms had been too dangerous to drive through until recently.

    "Last year, if you stopped here they would have killed you," says Dawoud.

    Sunnis now help

    In Baghdad, the improved security has led some Sunnis to once again openly participate in the mostly Shiite commemoration. Hanan Faleh Abdul Qadir, a retired accountant, this year is again openly cooking for her neighbors in Al-Adel.

    "For the past two years I cooked clandestinely and carried the dishes under my abaya to distribute to neighbors I trusted," says Ms. Abdul Qadir. She says her son was kidnapped and tortured in 2006 after he defended Shiite neighbors who had been ordered to leave their homes.

    "This year I cooked a lot of food in my garage and distributed it to all the neighbors," she says. Apart from being neighborly, Abdul Qadir notes that her actions also reflect a Sunni reverence for the prophet's grandson.

    South of Baghdad, at the highway interchange near Mahmudiyah, Army officer Ali Qassim Abbas stands watch as thousands of pilgrims stream past barbed-wire barricades, some being pushed in wheelchairs or carrying babies in their arms.

    "If we decided to separate the Sunni from Shiite we would have to divide the bedrooms," says Abbas, referring to the countless intermarriages.

    Although the attacks appeared intended to reignite sectarian violence, the Shiite pilgrims were unwilling to blame their Sunni countrymen for the suicide bombers.

    "It's people from outside Iraq," says Suad Mohammad Katham, who walked for two days from Baghdad with her 13-year-old niece. "They must have drugged her and then put the vest on her."

    Security forces guard route

    On Saturday, after the latest bombing, random body searches by volunteers were stepped up on the roads out of Baghdad. Iraqi security forces stood watch every 200 yards along the 40-mile route from the capital to Karbala, where tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers and police were deployed. Near Mahmudiyah, US backup included air support and a quick reaction force. Lt. Col. Jim Bradford, a US Army battalion commander, said an estimated 4 million pilgrims had passed through Muhmudiyah with no major incidents.

    The wave of pilgrims, many of them poor and jobless, carried a sea of prayers of a people recovering from war and a country struggling to put itself together. Many were making the pilgrimage to ask Imam Hussein to intercede with God to cure loved ones.

    Each pilgrim's path is unique

    Suad Mohammad Katham, her plastic sandals digging into her feet, was walking to Karbala to give thanks for her mother's improved health. Ms. Katham had made a previous pilgrimage to pray for her.

    Nathal Qassim had a flag of Hussein furling around her traditional black cloak. Her husband was shot in an armed robbery six months ago on Baghdad's Palestine Street. "I'm praying to find the murderer and for all of those who have loved ones missing," she says.

    In Baghdad's Karrada neighborhood, where the hold of religious extremists has loosened, huge flags depicting Hussein flew next to shop windows crammed with fuzzy red hearts and plastic roses for Valentine's Day.

    With the almost unimaginable violence of the last two years waning, Iraqis seem to be finding a way to live together again – a willingness to forgive is seen as a key test to the country's future.

    Torture didn't break spirit

    At one of the hospitality tents in Karrada, Thamer Tariq Barhoum, an unemployed house painter, says he was released from Camp Bucca, a US prison in the south of Iraq, six months ago when he was found innocent after spending 40 months in US and Iraqi detention.

    Mr. Barhoum, a father of six, says he was tortured by Iraqi security forces after being accused of attacking US soldiers. He bears the scars of being hit with a rifle butt and what he says was burning plastic dripped onto his wrists.

    Despite all this, Barhoum says he bears no hatred against the Iraqi officer who he says administered the torture. "I don't have anything against him," he says. "After he beat me, he brought me food and apologized – he was ordered by his superiors to do it." He says he was better treated by his American captors after he was handed over.

    A tribal court – more trusted than Iraq's civil courts – ordered the Iraqi policeman who falsely accused him to pay more than $4,000 in compensation. He is still waiting for compensation from US authorities. "They gave me $20 for taxi fare," he says.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0217/p01s01-wome.html

    Looks like Iraq is returning to its old self, where the Shi'ites and Sunnis get along like they did for hundreds of years before the war.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    Nikos's Avatar VENGEANCE BURNS
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    12,216

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    The signs look very good. I just hope this trend continues and no catastrophe happens like the shooting of the Golden dome.It's good to see the people of Iraq coming together again. When people realize, whatever religions we may or may not follow, that we are all human then a better world results.
    Learn about Byzantium! http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Toward-Warfare
    Civitate
    ,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator

    Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
    In Patronicum sub Celsius


  3. #3

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Will it last the Sunni-Shi'ite power struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran though...

  4. #4
    Nikos's Avatar VENGEANCE BURNS
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    12,216

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishHitman View Post
    Will it last the Sunni-Shi'ite power struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran though...
    If I understand you correctly, you think Iraqis will take sides in a power struggle between Shia and Sunni Islamic states? I don't think they will. Groups like the Sons of Iraq are showing Iraqi's pride in their country.
    Learn about Byzantium! http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Toward-Warfare
    Civitate
    ,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator

    Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
    In Patronicum sub Celsius


  5. #5
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishHitman View Post
    Will it last the Sunni-Shi'ite power struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran though...
    See...

    Many Iraqi Shi'ites are not fans of Iran (not saying they hate them but they aren't looking to the Iranians for leadership) and follow a different sect than them, and the Sunnis are closer to the Jordanians than the Saudis and follow a different Sunni sect than them. If Europe and the US invest in Iraq economically it may be able to serve as part of a Third Way, similar to India during the Cold War.

    You can see that remnants of AQI are trying to reignite the war by attacking pilgrims but it doesn't seem to be working.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  6. #6

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    I would be wary of putting too much stock in this article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    See...

    Many Iraqi Shi'ites are not fans of Iran (not saying they hate them but they aren't looking to the Iranians for leadership) and follow a different sect than them
    Both Iraqi Shiites and Iranians belong to the Twelver Shiite sect, their theology isn't any different.

    and the Sunnis are closer to the Jordanians than the Saudis and follow a different Sunni sect than them
    What? Both Jordanians and Iraqis are Hanafi Muslims.

  7. #7
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnum View Post
    Both Iraqi Shiites and Iranians belong to the Twelver Shiite sect, their theology isn't any different.
    I meant Iraqis don't believe in Rule by Jurors like Iranians do. Sort of like the difference between Episcopalians and Anglicans


    What? Both Jordanians and Iraqis are Hanafi Muslims.
    I meant Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  8. #8

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishHitman View Post
    Will it last the Sunni-Shi'ite power struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran though...
    Umm ... the majority of Iraqis are Shiahs. So who did you think make up the most Iraqi troops against Shiah Iran during Iraq-Iran War?


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

    "Feminists are silent when the bills arrive." -- Aetius

    "Women have made a pact with the devil — in return for the promise of exquisite beauty, their window to this world of lavish male attention is woefully brief." -- Some Guy

  9. #9
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    Umm ... the majority of Iraqis are Shiahs. So who did you think make up the most Iraqi troops against Shiah Iran during Iraq-Iran War?
    good point.

    Also, didn't Saddam's crack down on Shia coincide with the loss of the Gulf War?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  10. #10
    .......................
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    33,982

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    I must Farnan, I am openly suspicious of articles like these. I want to believe, but I've seen to many of them written in this Hollywood style making everythign seem fantastic, then a few weeks or days later another article comes out saying the complete opposite. I read enough of these on Afghanistan and how we had built this and that and did this and that, thought to myself, cool, all is good. Then another one comes out refuting all that.

    It has improved I think, definitley, but it's exaggerated I think in this article. Then again I could just be proven to be a cynic and actually all is excellent.

  11. #11
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    I must Farnan, I am openly suspicious of articles like these. I want to believe, but I've seen to many of them written in this Hollywood style making everythign seem fantastic, then a few weeks or days later another article comes out saying the complete opposite. I read enough of these on Afghanistan and how we had built this and that and did this and that, thought to myself, cool, all is good. Then another one comes out refuting all that.

    It has improved I think, definitley, but it's exaggerated I think in this article. Then again I could just be proven to be a cynic and actually all is excellent.
    http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_repor...rraf.jane.html

    Well the author isn't clueless.

    The problem with Afghanistan is it was that good... and then we ed up.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  12. #12
    Nikos's Avatar VENGEANCE BURNS
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    12,216

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    It has improved I think, definitley, but it's exaggerated I think in this article.
    I know it's hard, but have a little faith! . Unless another article comes out contradicting this, then I will continue to feel good about the progress in Iraq. But perhaps I'm just an Optimist.
    Learn about Byzantium! http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Toward-Warfare
    Civitate
    ,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator

    Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
    In Patronicum sub Celsius


  13. #13

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Most muslims don't really give a crap about this stupid sunni-shia . Or not here in the US anyway.

  14. #14
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mining Country, Outback Australia.
    Posts
    19,332

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Looks like Iraq is returning to its old self, where the Shi'ites and Sunnis get along like they did for hundreds of years before the war.
    This cannot be true considering the mass-murder that has suddenly exploded among them since Saddam was deposed. People who are friends don't tend to go on killing sprees on each other for no reason.

  15. #15
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    This cannot be true considering the mass-murder that has suddenly exploded among them since Saddam was deposed. People who are friends don't tend to go on killing sprees on each other for no reason.
    No it didn't explode...

    The Sectarian violence wasn't big till the Golden Mosque bombing that was orchestrated by foreign fighters.

    That along with decades of Saddam pitting the Shi'ites against the Sunnis to retain his power.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  16. #16
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mining Country, Outback Australia.
    Posts
    19,332

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    No it didn't explode...

    The Sectarian violence wasn't big till the Golden Mosque bombing that was orchestrated by foreign fighters.

    That along with decades of Saddam pitting the Shi'ites against the Sunnis to retain his power.
    The numbers killed by US forces pale in comparison to the slaughter committed by these sects on one another. And your statement about Saddam's methods only confirms that they weren't friends to begin with.

    If one atrocity can precipitate a mutual bloodfest of slaughter and death then there must be some fairly deep animosity there to begin with.

    Bloody hell I've seen enough of the hate on the internet between these two groups on an international basis to know they aren't bloodbrothers generally. Taunts like "infidel" come to mind, for example.

  17. #17
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    The numbers killed by US forces pale in comparison to the slaughter committed by these sects on one another. And your statement about Saddam's methods only confirms that they weren't friends to begin with.
    Just like Germany was the best place to be a Jew before Hitler, Iraq was a good place relatively to be a Shi'ite, there was much intermarriage with Sunnis, and tribes contain both sects. Saddam however, needing to keep power had to created animosity to keep enemies from uniting.

    If one atrocity can precipitate a mutual bloodfest of slaughter and death then there must be some fairly deep animosity there to begin with.
    Caused by Saddam and destruction of one of the holiest places in all of Shiadom. Catholics would do the same if people destroyed the Basilica of Saint Peter (as would any historians )

    Bloody hell I've seen enough of the hate on the internet between these two groups on an international basis to know they aren't bloodbrothers generally. Taunts like "infidel" come to mind, for example.
    Iraq wasn't like much of the Middle East.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  18. #18

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Lets just hope noone tries to create any hate between the two religious factions for political purposes. If they have not all ready?

  19. #19
    Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Greater New York City
    Posts
    2,122

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    The conflict between Shi'ites and Sunnis should be more or less similar to different sects of Christianity. If it isn't we get a problem
    Sometimes both sides are wrong. Unfortunately most people do not understand this and argue endlessly.

  20. #20

    Default Re: So Sunnis and Shi'ites hate each other?

    Shittes and Sunni's will never see eye to eye, that sfor sure. I think the Shittes have a proper claim and all, but as a sunni i'm not to much into their beating themselves up. At least the violence between them at least in the northern parts of Pakistan go, they have a long way till they are buddies.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •