Discussion on racism, Confederacy and Southern goals

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

I was hoping that maybe I could go on and try to convince some of my fellow southerners there that Confederatism is incompatible with the website's white supremacy agenda. I'm planning on presenting evidence of Jewish and Black membership in the CSA Army as proof that the South wasn't (completely) racist against minorities, and that, if we hope to regain our independence, we need to invite all our fellow southerners, lest we remain enslaved. Barack Obama's position of power (and his imminent failure) present us with a golden opportunity to really discredit the feds, not just in the south, but everywhere. When the stimulus fails (believe me, more packages are on the way) there will be massive discontent and suffering in the whole nation. Our message shouldn't be tainted by failed ideologies, but should (and could) stand on it's own merits. I know that I'm probably fighting against a raging storm (pun) and stand no chance, but I must try. I can't let the cause of my ancestors be dragged in the dirt like this.

[Thanatos]

You know you'll never convince them otherwise, yes?

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

You know you'll never convince them otherwise, yes?

They're misappropriating the symbols that brave men died under, I have to try. Regardless of the outcome. You don't have to help, but I could use any backup I can get.

ps don't forget to vote in the poll.

[Thanatos]

Don't get me wrong, it's always good to help people look past the stereotypes that plague any group, but I'm just incredibly skeptical when it comes to changing people. It's unbelievably difficult, if not nigh on impossible sometimes. All I personally hope for is to plant some seeds or ideas subconsciously that eventually, will open up their eyes.

[Justinian]

Don't discuss other websites here guys. Please have this topic concerning just the issues and not the other website.

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

Anyway, I just found out that, on the website I'm trying to convince, all posts are approved by moderator, so my goal became just that much harder to achieve.

How disappointing.

[Da Skinna]

Bring back the really funny , though.

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

Bring back the really funny , though.

OK, the website is populated by:

White Nationalists
Racists (of many colors, some white who pretend to be WN)
Secessionists/revolutionaries (yours truly among them)
Minorities often targeted by members of the website (Jews, for example)
Fair, rational people (more than you think)
Patriots
Fascists
Imperialists
The list goes on and on. the reason why I signed up was to convince the Southerners there to abandon any racist grounds they might hold, though, since all posts are mod approved, not 1 of my posts (or the thread I started) has actually popped up.

Maybe I misunderstood you?

[boofhead]

Jeez I made an extensive response to this based on my own experience with a similar attempt but then the thread was closed. I couldn't be bothered posting it again now.

All I'll say to the OP is that you will fail. When you ask racists a question that fundamentally challenges their world-view they will either attack or ignore or just 'hmmmm'. That is the nature of the beast - after all, in order to become a racist in the first place you really do have to have extreme powers of selective thinking.

e.g. I asked this "If a guy was adopted at birth, and he looks white, and is raised as a white, can he be a white nationalist without knowing his exact genetic makeup? And what if later in life he discovers that he does have other races in his blood, even though he is externally and culturally white in every way? Does this mean he has to abandon white nationalism?"

I only got one response "You ask an interesting question...." and the thread died there and then.

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

Jeez I made an extensive response to this based on my own experience with a similar attempt but then the thread was closed. I couldn't be bothered posting it again now.

All I'll say to the OP is that you will fail. When you ask racists a question that fundamentally challenges their world-view they will either attack or ignore or just 'hmmmm'. That is the nature of the beast - after all, in order to become a racist in the first place you really do have to have extreme powers of selective thinking.

e.g. I asked this "If a guy was adopted at birth, and he looks white, and is raised as a white, can he be a white nationalist without knowing his exact genetic makeup? And what if later in life he discovers that he does have other races in his blood, even though he is externally and culturally white in every way? Does this mean he has to abandon white nationalism?"

I only got one response "You ask an interesting question...." and the thread died there and then.

well, It's getting late, so I'll post tomorrow and let you know if I make any progress. or if any of my posts show up. Or if I'm banned.

[Admiral Piett]

I think it's admirable that you at least try to be some source of reason and present what the Confederacy really stood for, which wasn't the suppression of minorities, but I doubt you may be able to get through to everyone. The best way to go about this is present fact after fact. Present the fact that a majority of the South's generals supported abolition and a gradual acceptance of change, rather than a change this shoved down everyone's throat. Present that blacks and Jews fought in the CSA without being forced and that Native Indians generally favored and had better relations with the CSA than with the Union.

Generally, racism and nativism, like in any population was only a certain percentage of the population of the South and post Civil War from the 1880s - 1960s is when it actually grew and became more prominent, especially among wealthy Democrats, just as it had been at that time.

[RVFVS]

I believe that when it came to the Confederacy and the Union both were groups with different ideals. However the Union, were, (And I say this VERY delicatly as it applies only to slavery) the good guys. I wish you luck, but as a right wing Canadian-American who sees all people who are equal...you wouldnt be able to convince me.

[Admiral Piett]

As an American, there were NO good guys in a war with Americans killing Americans. We have never engaged a war more horrific and costly in terms of human life, social, and economic destruction.

[Viking Prince]

As an American, there were NO good guys in a war with Americans killing Americans. We have never engaged a war more horrific and costly in terms of human life, social, and economic destruction.

The horrors of the war were due to four big reasons:

1) The CSA had lost from the begining and the leadership would not quit. With nearly no industrial productive output after the first months of the war, less than 25% of the population base before union occupation, and no diplomatic support from European powers -- the CSA had no hope of winning as long as the North did not quit. The CSA idea that the USA would simply quit when like the CSA they were unwilling to step back meant a meatgrinder that destroyed the CSA.

2) All participants were literally ignorant as to how much technology would improve over the short time the war was fought.

3) The ability to continue to produce war materials was not dependant on a functioning economy -- guns, bullits, explosives were easy materials to acquire. For this reason the South continued to fight and the North thought the destruction of the CSA economy would end the war.

4) Occupation takes more troops than military field actions. The CSA never needed to occupy and that was the only difference to keep the war going. But without occupation forces, the CSA cannot win, only defend until worn down to nothing.

The short answer -- CSA goals could not be met with force of arms and yet they walked out of the union and raised the sword. A really bad move.

[The Good]

I was hoping that maybe I could go on and try to convince some of my fellow southerners there that Confederatism is incompatible with the website's white supremacy agenda. I'm planning on presenting evidence of Jewish and Black membership in the CSA Army as proof that the South wasn't (completely) racist against minorities, and that, if we hope to regain our independence, we need to invite all our fellow southerners, lest we remain enslaved. Barack Obama's position of power (and his imminent failure) present us with a golden opportunity to really discredit the feds, not just in the south, but everywhere. When the stimulus fails (believe me, more packages are on the way) there will be massive discontent and suffering in the whole nation. Our message shouldn't be tainted by failed ideologies, but should (and could) stand on it's own merits. I know that I'm probably fighting against a raging storm (pun) and stand no chance, but I must try. I can't let the cause of my ancestors be dragged in the dirt like this.

[gojira]

The secession war was not about freeing the black, it was about gaining control over the rich southern states. The history they tell in school is largely propaganda flavored.

Theres is no such thing as "good" vs "evil" in wars. Licoln supported the idea of "getting rid" of the indians, he was for sure not the messiah he is made today.

Americans and their history

Thats a little rant I know. Go on.

[Trey]

The secession war was not about freeing the black, it was about gaining control over the rich southern states. The history they tell in school is largely propaganda flavored.

Theres is no such thing as "good" vs "evil" in wars. Licoln supported the idea of "getting rid" of the indians, he was for sure not the messiah he is made today.

Americans and their history

Thats a little rant I know. Go on.

There is such a thing as moral superiority in certain wars, though not all.
Germans and their history

I know we're still controlled by the Jews and all, but I think we're doing OK. Anyways, look what happens when you simply try to keep your country clean!

[igotballsofsteel]

There is such a thing as moral superiority in certain wars, though not all.
Germans and their history

I know we're still controlled by the Jews and all, but I think we're doing OK. Anyways, look what happens when you simply try to keep your country clean!

U show great maturity here saying your controlled by the jew not all american will admitt it .

[El Brujo]

I think its choosing to say he's not southern because he sucked at a president.

Sorry, Bush a latter day carpet bagger who's father essentially bought the family a Texan persona to aid their political careers.

[Trey]

U show great maturity here saying your controlled by the jew not all american will admitt it .

Um,:hmmm:, I was actually kidding on that one. But yes, one could say the Jews are overrepresented in the media, and hold influence more than their population would seem to indicate.