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    Default Ruin your Health with Obama

    This is pretty scary and gives you a glimpse of the America Obama wants, we probably should not have found this. Whats your opinion?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Commentary by Betsy McCaughey


    Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.
    Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

    Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).
    The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
    But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

    Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

    New Penalties

    Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)
    What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.
    The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.
    Elderly Hardest Hit

    Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

    Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).
    The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.
    In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.
    Hidden Provisions

    If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.

    The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).
    Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”
    More Scrutiny Needed

    On Friday, President Obama called it “inexcusable and irresponsible” for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill needs more scrutiny.
    The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

    (Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed are her own.)
    To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at Betsymross@aol.com

    The rationing bit is the worst, what place does the government have in saying if the benefits outweigh the costs?

    this is how the creator of the Canadian socialist health care system describes his creation.


    Back in the 1960s, Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec — then the largest and most affluent in the country — adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies.
    The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: “the father of Quebec medicare.” Even this title seems modest; Castonguay’s work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.
    Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in “crisis.”
    “We thought we could resolve the system’s problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it,” says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: “We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice.”
    Last edited by Pickle_mole; February 13, 2009 at 06:06 PM.
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  2. #2
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Sounds like a good plan, because let's face it: America is on the verge of going bankrupt and with the aging population it will never be able to afford the level of health care that it was used to under the "free money" decades.

    I just hope they are smarter about how to implement the electronic medical dossiers than the politicians in my country. (here it's delayed indefinitely because of security breaches).



  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Sounds like a good plan, because let's face it: America is on the verge of going bankrupt and with the aging population it will never be able to afford the level of health care that it was used to under the "free money" decades.

    I just hope they are smarter about how to implement the electronic medical dossiers than the politicians in my country. (here it's delayed indefinitely because of security breaches).
    And what happens if said electronic documents got deleted?
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
    And what happens if said electronic documents got deleted?
    Uncontrollable variable that can happen in either a government database or a private database. You're getting paranoid.
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  5. #5
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Uncontrollable variable that can happen in either a government database or a private database. You're getting paranoid.
    And you seem to be unaware of the fact that government databases can be hacked with relative ease by experts and insiders. What exactly is so paranoid about being concerned how your government tracks your medical documents, documents which, ultimately, decide your fate when your wheeled into surgery? Can't you see the damage a malignant hacker could do if all documents were stored as digital data?

    A healthy scepticism is needed for this issue.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
    And you seem to be unaware of the fact that government databases can be hacked with relative ease by experts and insiders. What exactly is so paranoid about being concerned how your government tracks your medical documents, documents which, ultimately, decide your fate when your wheeled into surgery? Can't you see the damage a malignant hacker could do if all documents were stored as digital data?

    A healthy scepticism is needed for this issue.
    You seem to be unaware that any database can be hacked by an expert or an insider(just to educate you, the insider doesn't hack in, he logs on). You're talking about a situation that is equally dangerous whether its a government database or a private business database, no matter what the database is storing. Why are you not so paranoid about the private databases? It makes no sense that you're not.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  7. #7
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
    And what happens if said electronic documents got deleted?
    Then the next time you visit a doctor, you will have to answer a few extra questions.

    In my country I'm mostly worried about insurance companies getting their hands on them and using them to refuse chronically sick candidates or to make them pay extra.
    But I think US insurance companies are already doing this.



  8. #8

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Wait, I thought conservatives hated socialized medicine and wanted funding cut?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    The government has absolutely no right to tell private practitioners how to spend money and resources.

    Doctors employed by government-owned or funded hospitals is a different story.

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  10. #10
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Justinian View Post
    The government has absolutely no right to tell private practitioners how to spend money and resources.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is only about government programs like Medicaid.



  11. #11

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is only about government programs like Medicaid.
    If that's the case, there is no real argument against it. The government has the right to mandate its own programs. Insurance companies already have the right to deny treatment or surgery on the basis of its cost versus its necessity; in the context of Medicare/Medicaid, the government is already an insurance company.

    And what happens if said electronic documents got deleted?
    I'm relatively certain that the government of all organizations knows how to back up files

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  12. #12
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Justinian View Post
    If that's the case, there is no real argument against it. The government has the right to mandate its own programs. Insurance companies already have the right to deny treatment or surgery on the basis of its cost versus its necessity; in the context of Medicare/Medicaid, the government is already an insurance company.



    I'm relatively certain that the government of all organizations knows how to back up files
    Mhm, but what if the government itself issued the order for such an act to occur? I wouldn't be surprised after the valerie plume scandal.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    regulation is always good at any length, deregulation s things up.
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  14. #14
    Steel of Fury's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    OP: Scary stuff. Next thing you'll know they'll be monitoring the breaths we take.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    The government has absolutely no right to tell private practitioners how to spend money and resources.
    Of course it has. It's called law. Rights derive from law whether they are individual or institutional rights.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle_mole View Post
    This is pretty scary and gives you a glimpse of the America Obama wants, we probably should not have found this. Whats your opinion?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Commentary by Betsy McCaughey


    Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.
    Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

    Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).
    The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
    But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

    Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

    New Penalties

    Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)
    What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.
    The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.
    Elderly Hardest Hit

    Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

    Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).
    The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.
    In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.
    Hidden Provisions

    If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.

    The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).
    Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”
    More Scrutiny Needed

    On Friday, President Obama called it “inexcusable and irresponsible” for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill needs more scrutiny.
    The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

    (Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed are her own.)
    To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at Betsymross@aol.com

    The rationing bit is the worst, what place does the government have in saying if the benefits outweigh the costs?

    this is how the creator of the Canadian socialist health care system describes his creation.


    Back in the 1960s, Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec — then the largest and most affluent in the country — adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies.
    The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: “the father of Quebec medicare.” Even this title seems modest; Castonguay’s work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.
    Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in “crisis.”
    “We thought we could resolve the system’s problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it,” says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: “We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice.”
    A mixed economy works best, and a mixed economy is what Obama is giving you. You're just whinging because you'd rather see that money go on arms and tax cuts for the rich.

  17. #17
    Dismounted H@Xx0rZ's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    When it all fails and turns into canada's failed system, it'll get reversed by the RepubliKKKans once they get a major victory in 2010.
    Current Threat Level:


    Also, join the CLC!

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    From my experience the Highest paid Doctors are the worst.

    I support a government funded Health care system because Doctors and Hospitals are grossly taking advantage of sick people by charging outrageous sums of money.

    Making more money doesnt make a doctor better, it makes him worse.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    What do you mean by coverage issue?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Ruin your Health with Obama

    A comment on Health Insurance. Health Insurance Companies are gambling you wont get so sick you will collect more Health Care than the money you pay in. A person who buy Health Insurance is gambling that he will get more health care value than he puts into Health Insurance.

    My mother lost her Health Insurance once because she was sick for a while once and the Health Insurance company was losing money on her.

    A friend of mine named Buddy Aubrey who was an elderly neigbor had Blue Cross/ Blue Shield insurance. He came down with cancer and a few months later his insurance carrier dumped him.

    Health insurance is a scam and it is one of the primary driving forces behind inflated Health Care costs. There isnt any competitive pricing in medicine and Health care because people just think the Insurance is going to cover whatever it is. Which it actually never does cover all of it.

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