Should NATO get in the Opium buying bussiness in Afghanistan?

[Farnan]

Quite right — the Obama administration is gearing up to pressure the Europeans to put more men in boots on the ground in Afghanistan. Quite right — the Europeans don’t want to engage in a war of attrition à la Russians in Afghanistan in the 1980s or as the US in Vietnam a decade and a half before. There is nothing worse than having to pull out with your tail between your legs and confront the electorate for thousands of needless deaths of your brave young.

The answer to this paradox is that the Europeans, using their purse as well as their soldiers, should confront the issue of the Afghanistan poppy crop, the one that is 90 percent responsible for all the heroin sold in Europe and the one that funds over 80 percent of Taleban activity.

This brings me to a memorable conversation I had in Islamabad with President Pervez Musharraf two years’ ago. He suggested that the West should introduce a common agricultural policy for Afghan’s poppies — in other words to do as both the EU and the US do with certain agricultural crops — buy it up with government money. “Buying the crop is an idea one could explore”, he told me, in answer to what I had a bit nervously thought was a provocative question, “Pakistan doesn’t have the money for it. We would need help from the US or the UN. But we could buy up the whole crop and destroy it. In that way the poor growers would not suffer.”

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&sect...d=5&m=2&y=2009

A very interesting, and to me a great plan. Can't see any real side effects here...

[Erik]

I've thought about this before, I think it could work on the short term at least.

I'm not sure how much the cost of buying all Poppy would be, but I doubt it's that much compared to the cost of the ongoing military operations.
And there is also money to be saved when there is less drug policing to do.

But for the long run they should teach the farmers to grow different crops so they can eventually support themselves.

[Crimson Scythe]

Turkey's government did very much the same thing with Turkish poppy farmers. Over the period of a decade or two, these poppies were funneled from being used in illicit drugs into legitimate pharmaceutical production. Prior efforts to encourage Turkish farmers to switch products simply didn't offer enough incentives for them to do so, and thus failed.

Destroying the purchased crops is literally burning money. Following Turkey's lead here would be a much better and mutually beneficial alternative, IMO.

[Erik]

Turkey's government did very much the same thing with Turkish poppy farmers. Over the period of a decade or two, these poppies were funneled from being used in illicit drugs into legitimate pharmaceutical production. Prior efforts to encourage Turkish farmers to switch products simply didn't offer enough incentives for them to do so, and thus failed.

Destroying the purchased crops is literally burning money. Following Turkey's lead here would be a much better and mutually beneficial alternative, IMO.

Problem is: there is already more than enough pharmaceutical opiate production in the world.
Afghans will just have to switch to different crops.

[Farnan]

Problem is: there is already more than enough pharmaceutical opium production in the world.
Afghans will just have to switch to different crops.

Not for Africa and Asia...

According to that article there is enough for Western Europe, but not the third world.

http://www.csdp.org/news/news/heroinupdate.htm

[Crimson Scythe]

Problem is: there is already more than enough pharmaceutical opiate production in the world.
Afghans will just have to switch to different crops.

And how are you going to get them to do it? Pharmaceutical production, even temporarily, will bring in much needed hard currency that the government can then use to build necessary infrastructure. Or it would allow the Afghan government to provide subsidies for farmers growing crops other than poppies. And all without having to rely on foreign handouts. Thus it's good for them and us (well, any potential lender government, in any case).

[chamaeleo]

Can't see any real side effects here...

hmmm...you don't think Limbaugh & Co would spew tirades accusing Obama of directly funding terrorism? He'd be kinda right for a change. Sound ideas are oftentimes political suicide.

[Farnan]

hmmm...you don't think Limbaugh & Co would spew tirades accusing Obama of directly funding terrorism? He'd be kinda right for a change. Sound ideas are oftentimes political suicide.

Who really cares what Limbaugh says?

And this will be winning over poppy growers from the Taliban.

(and Europe not the US will take the lead).

[Justinian]

I say have the USA/EU buy up all of the opium and use it for painkillers and stuff, injecting money into Afghanistan's economy and giving people a reason to support the Western powers instead of the Taliban.

[Farnan]

Yea, it will pump about 2.5 Billion a year into Afghanistan which is increase its GDP by 25%.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Why should the Afghan muslims support any western government thats intent is to murder, rape and destory the Afghan culture?

Frankly Western powers should say our of our backyard and leave. We'll deal with the taliban ourselves.

[danzig]

Why should the Afghan muslims support any western government thats intent is to murder, rape and destory the Afghan culture?

Frankly Western powers should say our of our backyard and leave. We'll deal with the taliban ourselves.

Yeah you did such a splendid job of it in the past, hell "you" (Pakistan) aided and assisted the Taliban of its own murder, destruction of Afghan culture...

[Visna]

Why should the Afghan muslims support any western government thats intent is to murder, rape and destory the Afghan culture?

So, the western governments currently deploying soldiers in Afghanistan intend to "murder, rape and destory the Afghan culture?"
I would really like you to back up such an extraordinary claim. Thanks in advance.

Frankly Western powers should say our of our backyard and leave. We'll deal with the taliban ourselves.

Absolutely. You (Pakistan) have done brilliantly so far.
Heh, if you Pakistanis start out by those in the border regions to Afghanistan, and put the place back in government control, a lot will have been gained. How is it going with that project by the way?

EDIT. In the interest of staying on topic, I think it's a brilliant idea. Although it has been mentioned before, it's only understandable that such an idea would need a while to sink in. All that "war on drugs" and other such nonsense that previous US administrations have been spouting on about.

[gojira]

After the C(ocaine)I(mport)A(agency) holds the monopoly on poppy trade again, and developped Afghanistan to world´s greatest exporter of heroine again after the Taliban virtually destroyed the poppy fields over there (output--> close to zero)- I doubt NATO is the correct tool to intervene there.

NATO is great for protecting the drug growers, but its kinda paradox to think they would stop it.

After all, Karzai´s brother was on the list of the greatest 10 drug dealers in the world, from which he disappeared after his brother was installed as the west´s puppet.

If u have doubts about wallstreet´s and CIA´s involvement in the drug market, make a little google search for Iran Contra and "Air america".

"Turning first to drug control, I had expected to concentrate my remarks on the implications of the Taliban's ban on opium poppy cultivation in areas under their control... We now have the results of our annual ground survey of poppy cultivation in Afghanistan. This year's production [2001] is around 185 tons. This is down from the 3300 tons last year [2000], a decrease of over 94 per cent. Compared to the record harvest of 4700 tons two years ago, the decrease is well over 97 per cent.
Any decrease in illicit cultivation is welcomed, especially in cases like this when no displacement, locally or in other countries, took place to weaken the achievement" (Remarks on behalf of UNODC Executive Director at the UN General Assembly, Oct 2001, http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/speech_2001-10-12_1.html )

And that´s what is propagated in the media (I see a lot light headed victims in this thread by the way):

"Opium is a source of literally billions of dollars to extremist and criminal groups... [C]utting down the opium supply is central to establishing a secure and stable democracy, as well as winning the global war on terrorism," (Statement of Assistant Secretary of State Robert Charles. Congressional Hearing, 1 April 2004)

LOL, so the taliban that literally DESTROYED the opium market over there, shall be the ones that profit from drug dealing? ROFLMAO.


Cultivation Production
Year in hectares (tons)
1994 71,470 3,400
1995 53,759 2,300
1996 56,824 2,200
1997 58,416 2,800
1998 63,674 2,700
1999 90,983 4,600
2000 82,172 3,300
2001 7,606 185 <----TALIBAN RULE
2002 74,000 3,400
2003 80,000 3,600

[danzig]

Um the news/rumors/links whatever you want to call them about Khazai's brothers are hardly secret to the point both British and American intel wanted him removed from the country several years ago according to NY Times article a few months ago. Congrats though you managed to post a conspiracy (with CIA involvement) that didnt involve Jews, an improvement!

Yes the Taliban managed to keep drug trade under control....yippie? At what cost did that "achievement" come? Any western nation in the world can do what the taliban did to get undesirable conduct undercontrol but the price would be their souls and freedom. If you think that is somehow "good" trade off then pfft to you.

[gojira]

Zinionists =/= Jews, we´ll work on that, I promise ;-)

Ah, found a nice graphics that shows the "Taliban Drop" a little better:



The so called "west" fails horribly at fighting drugs, but if one has digged a little deeper it´s just too plain obvious- that it isnt intended at all.

And about the brave soldiers bringing peace and democracy, well...
CIA death squads killing with “impunity” in Afghanistan

A United Nations investigator released a preliminary report last week citing widespread civilian deaths in Afghanistan, often at the hands of unaccountable units led by the CIA or other foreign intelligence agencies...

" "

Alston focused on civilian killings by US and other international military forces, citing 200 reported deaths in the first four months of 2008. This figure, however, was based on tabulations by the United Nations and other international organizations, and is undoubtedly a serious underestimation.

" "

...
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/ma...afgh-m19.shtml


The west is as much "selfless liberator" as Attila the hunn was a philanthropist.

[Erik]

Why should the Afghan muslims support any western government thats intent is to murder, rape and destory the Afghan culture?

Because if they don't, they get murdered, raped and their culture destroyed by Pakistani's.

[Farnan]

Because if they don't, they get murdered, raped and their culture destroyed by Pakistani's.

Exactly.

When Erik and I agree on something...