No control over my destiny

**CatharticMoment** · February 13, 2009, 09:31 AM

Normally I start a game by trying to gobble up any rebel settlements near to my starting position. However, as soon as I do so, I am attacked by the computer, and as soon as I get the upper hand in that war, another computer opponent attacks me - forming a near continuous succession of enemies.

For example, in my current Milan game, I was attacked by France almost immediately after I took Dijon from the rebels and by the HRE almost immediately after taking Bern. I'm currently facing a 3 pronged alliance between France, the HRE and Sicily. It would be really nice if I could attack ex-commounicated Venice, who are at war with my allies Hungary. I can see it's capital is weakly defended - but Venice is a top 5 power, and I'm having a hard enough time fighting the wars I'm already in.

I know this keeps the game interesting, but I can't help feeling it would be nice to have a little more control. At least to sometimes get the opportunity of starting a war rather than feeling like a permanent victim. And once wars start, they seem almost impossible to stop without completely obliterating the opposition.

Do other people experience this, or is it an unintended consequence of the way I play?

**Pink Beard** · February 13, 2009, 10:08 AM

Get a mod

**sinosleep** · February 13, 2009, 10:08 AM

Nah, that's pretty common in an unmodded game of M2TW, particularly on the harder difficulties. It's why I use AI mods, far better diplomacy.

I use the campaign and battle ai from Lusted's SS on my vanilla game because 9/10 I don't like all the other changes mods make. This way I get all the bonuses of the campaign and battle ai but the game remains exactly the same in every other area.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=138529

Here's some instructions on how to install it too.

Originally Posted by Lusted

Depends if you are using just with Medieval II Total War or with a mod.

If you are using it with just Medieval II Total War, place the files in the Medieval II - Total War\data folder, and then right click your Medieval II Total War shortcut on your desktop, go to properties and change the target line so it looks like this(the drive may vary on your shortcut):

"C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\Medieval2.exe" --io.file_first

Then simply run the game using the desktop shortcut any you'll be playing Medieval II with my AI mod. Also make sure you make the changes to descr_strat.txt(located in Medieval II - Total War\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign)

This is the change he mentioned making to descr_strat.txt

Originally Posted by Lusted

Ah forgot the info on profiles in the first post. Basically you need to open descr_strat.txt, and for moors, egypt, turks change their ai_label from default to islam.

**Cyrus Spitama** · February 13, 2009, 10:13 AM

That's the way the game is. Diplomacy is mostly a waste of time, and you just have to get through three wars at a time. If you play in VH campaign mode, factions you haven't seen before will sail across the Mediterranean justo get at you.

**Old Geezer** · February 13, 2009, 10:14 AM

I have this "problem" constantly, because I play on VH/VH. However, I find that it makes the game easier in that I don't have to start wars, it is far easier to get a faction excommunicated and then get a crusade against it, and I think that the AI will attack when it is really not prepared well and as a result, once a faction has wasted its best troops attacking me it is easier to take its settlements. If you have a faction which is surrounded by many potential enemies it makes the game decidedly more difficult. France and HRE and Venice for sure and probably Sicily seem to always attack Milan. France always wants Dijon and HRE wants Bern. Venice just wants Milan. I think Sicily is programmed to go for Genoa. Once I realized such it made planning much easier and less stressful to the point that I become impatient when the AI is too passive and does not jump on me so that I have at least 3 factions attacking me. Milan has always seemed to attract more enemies sooner than any other faction that I have played.

**Muagan_ra** · February 13, 2009, 10:32 AM

Milan is a wonderful faction to play, but I learned the hard way that the AI is actually scripted to hate Milan. There's nothing you can do about it mate, just keep fighting.

**claudius2007** · February 13, 2009, 11:04 AM

The most important thing to do to overcome this diplomacy and constant war difficulty is to understand and use the diplomacy system better. In my last few campaigns (as Denmark and Spain) I have noticed a huge improvement in the reliability of my alliances and relations in general. Of course, backstabbers like Milan still exist, but in my Denmark game I had been allied with Poland and Hungary the ENTIRE GAME. Poland got invaded by the Timurids and I even helped them out take their lands back.

A few things to remember: (and this list is hopefully in the order of importance with 1 being most important)

1. DO NOT sign alliances with obvious future/historical enemies. (if you are England don't ally with France, if you are Milan don't ally with Venice or France, Poland-HRE, etc)
This usually makes you look dubious to other factions in the least. This doesn't mean you have to declare war on your arch-enemy, you can maintain trade but don't sign any military agreements.

2. Your friends enemies are your enemies. Treat your allies accordingly. I found it to be a good policy to cancel deals including trade with my allies enemies that I am not in conflict with. This usually helps improve your reliability among your allies and they are less likely to backstab, especially if they are involved in other wars. Give money to your allies when they are at war if you cannot help them directly. Make sure your relations DO NOT decrease with allies.

3. If allies go to war with each other DO NOT STAY ALLIED TO THE AGGRESSOR. This will result in a massive reliability loss. You should always try to maintain the reputation of Very Reliable-Trustworthy in the very least.

4. If you are Catholic ally with the pope. Other factions will be more wary of attacking you.
If you are not Catholic don't piss him off.

5. Deter warmongers from attacking you. If they militarize your border, move a full stack in that province as well to show them you mean bussiness. If they bring fleets around your ports, make sure you have a couple of ships around to defend it if necessary. This usually GREATLY deters backstabbers as they often look for easy pickings like blocading and undefended port or other lowly acts like that.

6. If you want to go to war with someone, provoke them diplomatically first. Ask for something ridiculous and they will attack you once relations are poor enough which will make you look like a saint when you "liberate" their cities.

7. Don't create unecessary problems for yourself in the early game. Choose the factions you are ready to have territorial disputes with and the ones you are not. The usual reason why you get attacked by everyone is that you try to capture all of the rebel settlements around you and leave them with no expansion room. You have to accept the fact that some of them will get territories too, but it's often better to focus on a war with a faction after initial expansion than making sure all rebel cities are anihilated. This keeps other factions busy with something else and it pays off.

**CatharticMoment** · February 13, 2009, 11:35 AM

Well I was actually trying to be diplomatic. Milan's aims are to destroy Venice and the Holy Roman Empire. So I went for early alliance's with the Pope, Hungary and France, figuring Hungary and France were natural enemies for the Holy Roman Empire.

However, as soon as I took Dijon, France immediately attacked me, and soon HRE and Sicily joined in, leading to my current situation. I'm actually doing OK in this war, having gained Marseille, Paris, Naples and Palermo, and lost nothing, but France and the HRE are still powerful.

So what was my mistake? Taking Dijon? Allying with France? Or both?

(btw - I am playing on H/H)

**claudius2007** · February 13, 2009, 11:45 AM

Both. Let me explain.

Taking Dijon triggered the invisible but painful "France and Milan have territorial disputes" for once, so war with France was inevitable at some point. Now imagine what the HRE Kaiser must have been thinking now: "hmm... my neighbors Milan and France who hate eachother have just signed an alliance. MOREOVER, Milan is also allied with my other neighbor Hungary. This is clearly some dirty stuff aimed against the Reich. I am gonna take out Milan, cause it's closer and weaker and then hope that France will do the same." Sicily was a completely out of the blues war monger and backstabber probably there is nothing you could have done about that. They attack a few times get excommed and then they just do nothing.

Here's how I would have done things:

1. Alliance with HRE and marriage or whatever in the 1st turn.
2. Take Dijon. Territorial claims with France. Now I prepare an army to take Marseille whenever war breaks out.

The difference now is that HRE is thinking "hmm my ally Milan is fighting my other neighbor France. That's great. I can focus on something else" (because remember the HRE has a lot of defense planning to deal with).

**CatharticMoment** · February 13, 2009, 02:37 PM

Oh well - a few turns later and it all seems to have worked out for the best.

Sicily: Having driven them out of mainland Italy, and destroyed their king's army, they were weak. I managed to arrange a ceasefire and trade agreement. I'm happy for them to sit around in Africa for the time being.

France: I'd killed their king and 2 other member's of their noble family in Paris. My next attack was on Toulouse, which contained their new king. Little did I know that this was the last surviving member of their royal family. I was pleased to see the message "Faction destroyed" (they still controlled 2-3 territories, and at least 3 full stack armies).

HRE: I've taken Staufen, but I can only advance slowly, since HRE have big armies and are the Pope's favourites.

This has left me in a much stronger position. So much so that I've decided I can afford to come to my allies aid and attack the godless Venetians.

**Theseus1234** · February 13, 2009, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by CatharticMoment

Oh well - a few turns later and it all seems to have worked out for the best.

Sicily: Having driven them out of mainland Italy, and destroyed their king's army, they were weak. I managed to arrange a ceasefire and trade agreement. I'm happy for them to sit around in Africa for the time being.

France: I'd killed their king and 2 other member's of their noble family in Paris. My next attack was on Toulouse, which contained their new king. Little did I know that this was the last surviving member of their royal family. I was pleased to see the message "Faction destroyed" (they still controlled 2-3 territories, and at least 3 full stack armies).

HRE: I've taken Staufen, but I can only advance slowly, since HRE have big armies and are the Pope's favourites.

This has left me in a much stronger position. So much so that I've decided I can afford to come to my allies aid and attack the godless Venetians.

what you seem to not understand, thought, is that THIS, this fighting off multiple enemies and planning strategics, is the ESSENCE of a good campaign game

**sinosleep** · February 13, 2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Theseus1234

what you seem to not understand, thought, is that THIS, this fighting off multiple enemies and planning strategics, is the ESSENCE of a good campaign game

I like to have a balance myself. I mean, I don't mind fighting off multiple enemies if the fighting is warranted, but I can't stand it when I'm already fighting 1 or 2 nations and then my ALLY decides to backstab me for absolutely no reason at all even though they have less provinces and a smaller military than I do. Why would they attack me knowing I could wipe them out on a whim instead of attacking like sized nations, preferably those already attacking me, their ally. That's what usually angers me and the reason I started using campaign ai mods. I still play on VH, but at least with mods there's a good chance that allies will remain allies unless you do something stupid and nations are far more likely to accept ceasefires instead of you HAVING to crush everyone.

**CatharticMoment** · February 13, 2009, 04:11 PM

I really don't mind the occasional backstab. It's only realistic for them to be there.

But I don't want them to become so routine that they're completely predictable. Backstabs should be unexpected, and when the computer executes them, they should hit hard and fast and hurt a lot.

And I'd like the game to change pace. Sometimes there should be periods of peace where you get a choice of whether to build up and turtle, or to go on the offensive yourself. At other times you should come under heavy pressure from multiple enemies.

**Surgeon** · February 13, 2009, 03:11 PM

I used to play on VH campaign difficulty, and the entire campaign was nothing but endless war. As soon as I pushed one faction out of the way, the next one over attacked me. Eventually I said, "man, I want more realistic diplomacy" and tried playing on medium or hard difficulty, with a few mods to spice it up.

After a few ingame decades of peace and nobody attacking me unprovoked, I said "to heck with this I want my action!!" and switched back to VH.

Edit: btw aren't you supposed to not have control over your destiny by definition?

**Caledonian** · February 14, 2009, 10:31 AM

"I like to have a balance myself. I mean, I don't mind fighting off multiple enemies if the fighting is warranted, but I can't stand it when I'm already fighting 1 or 2 nations and then my ALLY decides to backstab me for absolutely no reason"

Small dogs bringing down the mighty roman wolf comes to mind

The thing is,if your armies are away fighting stronger powers and...trusting your allies...have left your heartland scarcly defended then why not?The small powers would soon become massive powers after they've taken your scarcely defended motherland.And you?Well your too busy fighting those two large powers to send a stack to crush these oppurtunists!

Also the AI is programmed to attack human players and if a military vaccum appears near it(even if its their ally) chances are they'll attack.Its just one of those hardcoded things,MoDs can help buteven with them,thats just "the way it is"

**Señor Donut** · February 14, 2009, 12:44 PM

I know what you mean brother. I remember playing portvcale on very high as the moors.

Right Away, Castille hates me. That's okay you know? Historical and all. But soon Portugal joins... That's fine too. Then Aragon joins... Hmm, kinda messed up but hey, they are Spanish.

Then Navarre. Wait! Hold up! I never even TALKED TO THEM. Next my lifelong ally France decides it hates my Moorish guts. Then OUTTA NOWHERE, Britain sends a fleet to North Spain to fight me, rather than mess with France, who we can both work to destroy.

Then the Genoans, Pisans and send stacks during the next few turns.

By now I am PISSED. Finally, the Venetians and the POPE HIMSELF comes to Spain to fight me.
A Sicilian stack came too to attack me at Palma. Speaking of Palma, that was a ridiculous war theater. Most times, I had Genoans, Pisans, Papal States and Sicilian stacks all hanging out there along with my armies....It took me 40 long long years to dispel everyone out of the Iberian peninsula...

Before I had made any real progress I had 11 different nations at war with me. By the time I made it into France I had Navarre, Portugal, Castille and Aragon dead. Soon after the Scots came from Flanders to attack me, and my only ally the Turks, attacked me at Paris after winning the Jihad there which I called and aided them at the siege for the city.

It was a long hard and fun game, but It really proves your point OP