How to stop these irritated revolts

**Wei Qing** · February 13, 2009, 01:38 AM

Hello!
I am playing as the Cumans, and I have attempted to make an incursion to Byzantine territories. However, for every castle I have conquered, despite my full-stacked army stationing there, the revolts immediately occur with golden experience. Even when I have massacred the whole population, revolts keeps going.
Do you know which files can I change this situation, I remember this is a terrible error from the original Rome Total War. Several other mods of Rome I have played does not have this error. Please help!!

Thanks

**hammy the hamster** · February 13, 2009, 02:12 AM

Davinci wold probably enjoy telling you himself, but it's not an error, factions are meant to find it very hard to expand beyond their historical borders which is most of the "Russia" area for Cumans.
It's still possible of course but slow progress, similar to the way it was in real life.

There are also plenty of buildings, martial law and execution places are good examples, which increase public order, there may also be religious unrest causing rebellion.

**Wei Qing** · February 13, 2009, 03:41 AM

Yes, cultural shocks and so...
But even revolts, how could their experience gets into gold level. This is not sound. My best cavalry participated in 3 intense battles against the local tribes just reach 2 silver.

**hammy the hamster** · February 13, 2009, 05:32 AM

thats just part of the rome engine as far as i know

**DaVinci** · February 13, 2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by hammy the hamster

thats just part of the rome engine as far as i know

Iirc not only Rome engine, but also M2TW (to a good part the Rome engine).
Let's hope this bad property is solved with ETW. We can hope the best ... 5 years since Rome's release should produce some progress

**CirdanDharix** · February 17, 2009, 10:42 AM

I do hope they're irritated before they revolt. It would be bloody annoying if they revolted without reason, don't you think so?

Joke aside, in M2TW the effects of experience have been seriously reduced, and there are less armour and weapon upgrades available, so the revolt-spawned stacks aren't anywhere near as overpowered. One of the few real improvements in M2TW, along with the recrutment slots.

**Pingpong** · February 13, 2009, 05:44 PM

Yup I always enjoy fighting stacks of levies with gold chevrons and armor. Does it matter these guys carry wooden shields and spears? I like how in groups of 30 they annihilate my heavy cav/ heavy spearmen

good times. More fun is when a city revolts TO your side and you get those OP units

**Alavaria** · February 17, 2009, 10:58 AM

Nice. Did I tell you about the time I took Reims, lost it later by revolt and it spawned gold chevron Early Mercenary Knights with impossible-to-obtain weapons/armor upgrades? There were 150 of those knights, too. Course' I never fought them, as Chiv 1.0 came out, so I'm not gonna continue that campaign.

**CirdanDharix** · February 17, 2009, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Alavaria

Nice. Did I tell you about the time I took Reims, lost it later by revolt and it spawned gold chevron Early Mercenary Knights with impossible-to-obtain weapons/armor upgrades? There were 150 of those knights, too. Course' I never fought them, as Chiv 1.0 came out, so I'm not gonna continue that campaign.

I once got Toulouse by revolt, and obtained triple gold chevron Early Merc Knights of my own. I disbanded them soon thereafter, as they made things to easy.

**DaVinci** · February 17, 2009, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Wei Qing

Hello!
I am playing as the Cumans, and I have attempted to make an incursion to Byzantine territories. However, for every castle I have conquered, despite my full-stacked army stationing there, the revolts immediately occur with golden experience. Even when I have massacred the whole population, revolts keeps going.
Do you know which files can I change this situation, I remember this is a terrible error from the original Rome Total War. Several other mods of Rome I have played does not have this error. Please help!!

Thanks

Well, just to reply finally to this post:

- First of all, it is the RTW engine that is responsible.
- As player you have not only since version 1.0 the 'Martial Law' available, what will opress a lot unrest. But since v1.0 it is available in every region.
- A last tier building-event in this martial law string will solve unrest things a lot. That was recently added and calls 'subjugation', but is hidden in the building browser until the last martial law event is built.
- Anyway you should take care for your character traits and ancs, who administer realms (roleplay).
- If regions revolt, and in fact high armored units and elites are spawned then just try to see it as an additonal challenge. I would if i could reduce this unit spawn of armoured peasant units, those are annoying. If somebody knows how i can effectively reduce those armour upgrades of revolt units, i would be very thankful for info.
- Else, unruly regions are a part of the historical gameplay, but the "tools" to opress them are already extended during the development of the mod. But always there will remain here and there a challenge to convert regions to a happy, lawful one and with the same belief

**charles the hammer** · February 17, 2009, 11:31 AM

I think that giving all regions the ability to build churches and what not could help towards unrest i know youve said that you dont like that but i wish it was implimented. But i like how the conversion methods itself work were you have to build the 3 tier church before they convert it makes religon conversion what it should be a long hard process. Because ive had some good times as the kiev converting those pagan steppes which takes forever by the way.

**CirdanDharix** · February 18, 2009, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by DaVinci

- If regions revolt, and in fact high armored units and elites are spawned then just try to see it as an additonal challenge. I would if i could reduce this unit spawn of armoured peasant units, those are annoying. If somebody knows how i can effectively reduce those armour upgrades of revolt units, i would be very thankful for info.

You can control what units are spawned (AFAIK) during a revolt by controlling what units the slave faction can build in the settlement. Any unit buildable in the core building seems to be guaranteed to show up. Experience, armour and weapon upgrades are hardcoded, or at least that's what I've always heard.

**Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze** · February 18, 2009, 09:42 AM

well, i tend to have better quality revolts in cities with blacksmiths, foundries etc. (spearmaker, swordmaker, whatever you want

)

**DaVinci** · February 18, 2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by CirdanDharix

You can control what units are spawned (AFAIK) during a revolt by controlling what units the slave faction can build in the settlement. Any unit buildable in the core building seems to be guaranteed to show up. Experience, armour and weapon upgrades are hardcoded, or at least that's what I've always heard.

Yes, i know that about the core building, and i also never heard that exp/upgrades can be influenced by modding. I was for example thinking about to move the Early Mercenary Knight/Mercenary Knight, and other units to another building string, i'll see.

**Alavaria** · February 18, 2009, 01:34 PM

If you just made the slaves/rebels unable to recruit Early Mercenary Knights, it doesn't matter if they're located on the core building. They can only spawn units that they're allowed to build. if I remember correctly (they should be pleased with 3 gold chevron levy watchmen).

But I agree about that bit concerning the AI. It's not as awesome a bonus as it seems, because the AI is rather silly. Now if it actually for a stack of 20 units of 3-gold-chevron, gold weapon, gold armor Early Merc. Knights, then maybe it might become an issue.

**DaVinci** · February 18, 2009, 01:44 PM

Besides actual slave faction core building units, the AI spawns also merc attributed units for them, afaik, and because otherwise you guys wouldn't have reported the spawning of revolting Mercenary Knights.

The RTW engine AI is rather silly, this is known latest since 2005. The influenced AI behaviour by Chiv-modding efforts is rather improved, i would say improved to a very mentionable degree - don't you feel the difference?

**Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze** · February 21, 2009, 05:07 AM

Besides actual slave faction core building units, the AI also spawns merc attributed units for them, afaik, and because otherwise you guys wouldn't have reported the spawning of revolting Mercenary Knights.

The RTW engine AI is rather silly, this is known latest since 2005. The influenced AI behaviour by Chiv-modding efforts is rather improved, i would say improved to a very mentionable degree - don't you feel the difference?

now it's perfect

anyway, i don't want those revolts to stop....i do have one question about those revolts though:
it happened to me only once in Vanilla, and never in a mod...when does a settlement revolt to a certain faction? (i did have moments where my settlements revolted to the enemy, but i never had that the other way around)

how and when does that happen?

**DaVinci** · February 21, 2009, 06:49 AM

but i never had that the other way around

..bad luck. This happens for factions with high loyalists uprising potencial also to the human player. As Armenia for example you'll get for sure the one or other region by loyalists.

**CirdanDharix** · February 23, 2009, 11:18 AM

IIRC, each settlement has a predefined founder and owner faction, even slave settlements. This determines the culture of slave-faction settlements, but more importantly, it determines to which factions the settlement will revolt. If a settlement secedes, it will join either its founder or owner predefined factions. It's a shame it doesn't go back to being rebel, though