Geert Wilder's movie about the Quran

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

If you'd like to talk about the banishment of Geert Wilders from the UK, please do it in that thread.

This thread is for the discussion of the incriminated video, see it for yourself. It's only 17 minutes long.

+ Google Video

Facts about the movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)

What do you think?

[The Good]

This man must have been pretty brave to take a stand against Islam in a country that has a sizable Muslim immigrant community. He's already been banned from Britain for the movie/documentary.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I made a thread about this "documentary" when it came out debunking his use of the Qur'an.

[The Dude]

I made a thread about this "documentary" when it came out debunking his use of the Qur'an.

It's irrelevant how -he- uses the Quran. It's relevant how -muslims- use the Quran and how more often than not it is a book used to incite hatred.

I have tried my best to respect Islam, ever since I was as young as twelve years old. Now I am twenty two and I can come to only one conclusion: it is not a religion worth respecting.

Thank god democracy is still alive in the Netherlands, because I might well vote for Wilders the next election.

Geert Wilders a hero? He's the prototype of a self-serving, smug, populist politician. He contributes nothing to a serious debate about the dangers of a militant Islam.
I'd even say he's exactly the same as what he raves on about, just at the other side of the fence.

Nobody else raises the subject though. Even if Wilders isn't your favorite type of politician, I'm yet to see someone else step up and say what should be said. He's the only one with the balls to do it.

[Holger Danske]

How about the militarism part of Islam, that he actually questions. I mean no matter how loney that guy is that is a valid and relevant question for us.

[boofhead]

When it first came out and was released on Liveleak it was quickly pulled because of death threats to Liveleak staff (surprise surprise)...but after a few days they grew some balls, said " you" and put it up anyway.

Islam: the religion least able to take criticism or to subject itself to objective analysis in the history of mankind.

[Zephyrus]

When it first came out and was released on Liveleak it was quickly pulled because of death threats to Liveleak staff (surprise surprise)...but after a few days they grew some balls, said " you" and put it up anyway.

Islam: the religion least able to take criticism or to subject itself to objective analysis in the history of mankind.

Hear, hear.

Gert Wilders is a hero. those self-serving politicians who refuse to put the interests of their native populations and cultures ahead of the wanton immigrations of those who respect neither in their host country. Its time Europeans grew some cajones and rallied around him.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Hear, hear.

Gert Wilders is a hero. those self-serving politicians who refuse to put the interests of their native populations and cultures ahead of the wanton immigrations of those who respect neither in their host country. Its time Europeans grew some cajones and rallied around him.

Ok, so when do you take your Euro trash out of thier caves and secluded society in Dubai and the rest of the middle east? When you recall them back, i'm more than happy to welcome our muslim brothers and sisters back to our holy lands.

[Tominokar]

When it first came out and was released on Liveleak it was quickly pulled because of death threats to Liveleak staff (surprise surprise)...but after a few days they grew some balls, said " you" and put it up anyway.

Islam: the religion least able to take criticism or to subject itself to objective analysis in the history of mankind.

I think you're forgetting those 1,900 years of Christian insanity.

Islam was the worlds centre of academia and enlightenment for a good 500 years, a much greater part of its existence than Christianitys recent softening.

It just goes to show that it's not inherantly the religion itself, but the situation its followers find themselves in. The 21st Century has seen a huge anti-Islamic movement, largely due to terrorist attacks, which were largely due to Western actions in the Middle East. Of course muslims are on the defensive.

[Babur]

I think you're forgetting those 1,900 years of Christian insanity.

Islam was the worlds centre of academia and enlightenment for a good 500 years, a much greater part of its existence than Christianitys recent softening to when it comes to dogma.

It just goes to show that it's not inherantly the religion itself, but the situation its followers find themselves in.

and boofhead is forgetting that the Catholic Church only pardoned Gallileo in the 20th Century.So it took centuries for them to officially accept heliocentrism.

[Ummon]

I think you're forgetting those 1,900 years of Christian insanity.

Islam was the worlds centre of academia and enlightenment for a good 500 years, a much greater part of its existence than Christianitys recent softening.

It just goes to show that it's not inherantly the religion itself, but the situation its followers find themselves in. The 21st Century has seen a huge anti-Islamic movement, largely due to terrorist attacks, which were largely due to Western actions in the Middle East. Of course muslims are on the defensive.

Selective forgetting is everyone's problem. Those years of thriving came with a lot of conquests. Unfortunately, most people choose what to believe in arbitrarily.

[Tominokar]

Selective forgetting is everyone's problem. Those years of thriving came with a lot of conquests. Unfortunately, most people choose what to believe in arbitrarily.

There's barely a moment in history when a Christian or Islamic country hasn't been at war. That wasn't my point.

[Yorkshireman]

The 21st Century has seen a huge anti-Islamic movement, largely due to terrorist attacks, which were largely due to Western actions in the Middle East.

So what was 9/11 for then? There was'nt any western actions in the middle east at that time as far as I'm aware.

[Sher Khan]

So what was 9/11 for then? There was'nt any western actions in the middle east at that time as far as I'm aware.

Specifically, bin Laden was raging against U.S. troop presence in Saudi Arabia and our constant support for the Saud Royal family.

More broadly, most Islamists have issue with the West for their military and financial support of Middle Eastern dictators.

[Yorkshireman]

Specifically, bin Laden was raging against U.S. troop presence in Saudi Arabia and our constant support for the Saud Royal family.

Should really have attacked the Saudi's then. The Saudi royals were happy enough to have the US protect their oil wealth from Saddam during the 1st Gulf war.

[Tominokar]

So what was 9/11 for then? There was'nt any western actions in the middle east at that time as far as I'm aware.

Going into all the reasons is a waste of time, as one is enough. Israel.

[IrishHitman]

So what was 9/11 for then? There was'nt any western actions in the middle east at that time as far as I'm aware.

One word.

Israel.

I think you're forgetting those 1,900 years of Christian insanity.

Islam was the worlds centre of academia and enlightenment for a good 500 years, a much greater part of its existence than Christianitys recent softening.

It just goes to show that it's not inherantly the religion itself, but the situation its followers find themselves in. The 21st Century has seen a huge anti-Islamic movement, largely due to terrorist attacks, which were largely due to Western actions in the Middle East. Of course muslims are on the defensive.

They'll find offensives a poor set of defences.
Attacks by Islamists have been way down since 9/11.
There were more separtist terrorist incidents in Europe in 2007 than islamist ones.

They may win via immigration, but it is not a deliberate policy.

[Manco]

Geert Wilders a hero? He's the prototype of a self-serving, smug, populist politician. He contributes nothing to a serious debate about the dangers of a militant Islam. He just fearmongers to get votes.
I'd even say he's exactly the same as what he raves on about, just at the other side of the fence.

Fitna itself is total bunk, with mostly out of context quotes and random violent images. I agree there has to be a debate, and he should be able to do his thing, but as long as guys as he dominate the debate, we'll never get anywhere. And certainly not anything remotely resembling an intelligent conversation.

[Dr. Croccer]

It's irrelevant how -he- uses the Quran. It's relevant how -muslims- use the Quran and how more often than not it is a book used to incite hatred.

So is the Bible and the Communist Manifesto. The movie has been disproved at least 50 times and it's obvious that he pulled a bunch of lines out of context. I could do the same with the Bible. There will always be fanatics who interpret a text in a violent fashion but they do not constitute the majority of the group.




I think Schism is more threatening than Fitna because I've seen the footage in Fitna already. It's old.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

The movie has been disproved at least 50 times

Name one please.