The Great Conflicts main discussion thread. Please post here!

[Gh4m3_Gh0st]

Happy to hear just text me when you need beta testers and i will help the best i can

[AnthoniusII]

Those Lombards runnig up the hill in the heavy gear, they're true Ironmen.

True , Lombrds have one of the most heavily armored rosters in game. Provincial Roman armies (thematic armies) have serius troubles to engage them.

[Wallachian]

I can not see the unit screenshots for some reason

[AnthoniusII]

I can not see the unit screenshots for some reason

Have you accidentaly blocked postimage.com ?
Try the links:
https://i.postimg.cc/FHpCNsN9/test-campaign-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/QMM4tGdc/test-campaign-2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/j5wMHHN5/test-campaign-3.jpg
Can you see thyem now?

[Fabarius]

Hello again everyone. I'm still playing the campaign as the ERE, and I'm at turn 151. The problem is, I'm getting a ctd at the end of the turn when Pechenegs move. It's a particullary annoying ctd becouse in the same turn Fatimids attack T'nis with their faction leader and I have to make an heroic defense with the trash units I'm able to recruit there bc of the low culture (so every time I want to go back and see if i still get booted, I have to manually play this particullary hard battle if I don't want to lose the city)... Doesn't matter how many turns I go back, same thing happens in turn 151. Even if i try to control the Pechenegs, I STILL get the ctd when I end the turn (as the Pechenegs!!!). If I try to load back as the Pechenegs to try something different, I get "stucked" as Lombards (?) and the hour sandglass cursor does not allow me to end the turn.

Here's a screenshot when I try to load the saved game as the Pechenegs: https://imgur.com/t7StYg1

Here's a link for the two saves on turn 151 (one for the Byzantines and other for the Pechenegs): https://mega.nz/file/ZpAWxbpL#XHNndy...kMdkBinwwMJ_FA

Any help would be appretiated.

[_Tartaros_]

reason is most likely the fatimids script, which is starting after turn 148. the pechenegs are just the last faction in the line (befor slave faction) and the game try to build the next turn setup.
seeing the screenshot, it could be that the fatimids faction is getting destroyed and there FL and FH dying at the same time. this cause a ctd and is a vanilla bug. you can check tunis, if both of there leaders are present at the battle.
try to let establish the faitimids faction and destroy them after 10-15 turns. there script is finished after the aghlabids are destroyed.

[AnthoniusII]

In the haste to release previus rosters we forgot to add Roman Cavalarii upg 3 ,similar to Kontaratoi upg3.
So with the next patch the players that play Romans will be able to upgrade one more tier their basic cavalry unit.


Credits:
Textures by Leif_Eriskon and Pacco
Shield patern (this one) by Pacco
Weapons by Lord_Calidor
Horses By Marka
Horse extra textures by Dome
Horse extra gear by Razor.

[Fabarius]

reason is most likely the fatimids script, which is starting after turn 148. the pechenegs are just the last faction in the line (befor slave faction) and the game try to build the next turn setup.
seeing the screenshot, it could be that the fatimids faction is getting destroyed and there FL and FH dying at the same time. this cause a ctd and is a vanilla bug. you can check tunis, if both of there leaders are present at the battle.
try to let establish the faitimids faction and destroy them after 10-15 turns. there script is finished after the aghlabids are destroyed.

No, faction hair is not present in the battle. Even if I auto resolve the siege and I lose the city (fatimid fl doesn't get killed) I still get the same ctd.

[AnthoniusII]

Sometimes I have the feeling that i chose better shield paterns for Roman Rebels that for the loyalists! Rebel Aristocrats is my best example.
But that was the only way to use as many as possible shield paterns without leaving the historical rule (one unit one shield patern).
Cavalarii upg3 loyalists

Cavalarii upg3 rebels

Both shield paterns were made by Pacco.
I just removed the metal rim from them because in 10th century metal rims were not used widely.

[Wallachian]

Those units look marevllous!

[Fabarius]

So, what should I do about my problem? Is there anything I can do? Or should I just wait for the next patch and start from scratch?

[AnthoniusII]

So, what should I do about my problem? Is there anything I can do? Or should I just wait for the next patch and start from scratch?

Despite the fact i use an older data build i had a similar situation in my previus Roman Campaign when i destroyed Chandax. I started a new campaign and despite the fact that i destroyed Chandax amd Serbia and Magyars destroyed by Pechenegs the new campain is over 380 turns. I would sugest a new campaign waiting the new build. Sometimes an admiral or a general becomes rebel and causes CTDs!

[_Tartaros_]

i would suggest to let the scripted fatimids take over northern africa from turn 148 - 170 and conquer them after turn 180

[AnthoniusII]

The last piece in the Roman Rosters are the Cavalarii archers upg3 :

What i like in M2TW engine is the "natural" animations both vanilla and made from modders like the example above.
Loyalist cavalarii :

Rebel cavalarii in duel with loyalists:

The shield paterns are creations both of Leif_Erikson and Pacco.
The tier 5 shield patern is a merging of Leif_Erikson's ouer shield patern with Pacco's internal one.
The rebel shield is a Leif's patern with changed colors to fit to the Roman rebels.
Accontistae
Peltastae
Toxotae (all 2 tiers)
Trapezitae (all 2 tiers)
Cavalarii archers (all 4 tiers) , use the same texture with one single normal map texture as well.
Scutatoi (all 4 tiers)
Menaulati (all 2 tiers)
Kontarati (all 4 tiers)
Cavalarii lancers (all 4 tiers) , use the same texture with also common normal map texture as well.
That way we hope that after the islamic rosters re-creation we will have same amount of textures but for more units making the game engine of the mod "lighter".

[a156]

1. First of all, congratulations on the Mod. I downloaded it a few days ago and really, it is amazing. However I would like to point out 2 details. Being new here means that I don’t know any background discussion, so forgive me if I am repeating somebody's thoughts. Having studied extensively the praecepta militaria through Eric McGeer's Sowing the Dragon’s Teeth, I would like to point out the following about Byzantine cataphracts:
   1. At that time, at least for the Byzantine army, there was no concept of a "couched lance" charge. The primary weapon was the mace and it seems that the impact during the charge was created by the horse itself with its armor (unlike the Norman knights who created the "couched lance" in 11^th c). Besides, the main role of the Cataphract formation was to attack the enemy infantry. Riders with spears were placed at the flanks of the triangular formation and not at the front ( to protect from enemy cavalry counter attack).
   2. The armor of the horses seems to have greatly improved their survival on the battlefield, mainly from enemy arrows. Apart from Phocas, this is also mentioned by Leo the Deacon and by Anna Komnini.
   Therefore I humbly suggest.
   1. Remove the couched lance as the main weapon from the heavy cavalry, except the Normans. E.g. Byzantine cataphracts can have the same primary and secondary (mace or sword) like Norse War Clerics.
   2. Horsemen with armored horses can maintain a good charge bonus and bonus vs infantry on their primary weapon but not in the secondary, so that they are not so OP in melee vs infantry (as it is - unfortunately - in S.S 6.4).
   3. Horsemen with armored horses to get a good armor boost (eg +4) with a possible penalty for balance of the game (eg reduced stamina, speed, defensive skill or other).
   

[AnthoniusII]

1. First of all, congratulations on the Mod. I downloaded it a few days ago and really, it is amazing. However I would like to point out 2 details. Being new here means that I don’t know any background discussion, so forgive me if I am repeating somebody's thoughts. Having studied extensively the praecepta militaria through Eric McGeer's Sowing the Dragon’s Teeth, I would like to point out the following about Byzantine cataphracts:
   1. At that time, at least for the Byzantine army, there was no concept of a "couched lance" charge. The primary weapon was the mace and it seems that the impact during the charge was created by the horse itself with its armor (unlike the Norman knights who created the "couched lance" in 11^th c). Besides, the main role of the Cataphract formation was to attack the enemy infantry. Riders with spears were placed at the flanks of the triangular formation and not at the front ( to protect from enemy cavalry counter attack).
   2. The armor of the horses seems to have greatly improved their survival on the battlefield, mainly from enemy arrows. Apart from Phocas, this is also mentioned by Leo the Deacon and by Anna Komnini.
   Therefore I humbly suggest.
   1. Remove the couched lance as the main weapon from the heavy cavalry, except the Normans. E.g. Byzantine cataphracts can have the same primary and secondary (mace or sword) like Norse War Clerics.
   2. Horsemen with armored horses can maintain a good charge bonus and bonus vs infantry on their primary weapon but not in the secondary, so that they are not so OP in melee vs infantry (as it is - unfortunately - in S.S 6.4).
   3. Horsemen with armored horses to get a good armor boost (eg +4) with a possible penalty for balance of the game (eg reduced stamina, speed, defensive skill or other).

My friend you stick with terms that created ages later.
In Leonis Imperatoris Tactica by Emperor Leo VI the Wise in the chapter "training the horsemen" he mention's the "υπομασχαλια" aka underarms holding of the lance. What you call couched lance assault was nothing more than the Norman copy of that Roman tactic because Norman knights use to use two short spears instead of lance, throwing one and the enemy lines and use the other to assault! (see previus posts of mine with pics).
This pic shows how early Norman knights (before their interaction with the Italian horsemen) used to fight:

Byzantium Beyond The Golden Gates is a book rather a quide for stradegy games but was created by historians.

As you can see they use their lances underarmed! That became possible when Avars brought the stireups in to horse sudles. Before that we have two handed low lance position and one handed uperhead position "aiming" the opponet's head. Roman (you may still call them false Byzantines) used imported baboo for their lances. That stoped when strireups allowed more solid wooden lance creations.
I asked Mr D'Ammato that wrote his recent book about that and confirmed our side.
His book Roman Heav Cavalry 500-1450, may found here.
Conclusion. Low position lance assaults were posible even from the era of Macedonian Prodromoi of Alexander the Great. Later Parthians, Sassanids, Steppe people and espesialy Avars , that also brought Trebushet in to Roman artilery, were perfect teachers for Romans. Normans learned from the eastern people not the other way.
EDIT: Swords and Maces can not have the same values as weapons. In 1186 we read about the Battle od Sirmium between the Romans from the one side and Hungarian/Austrian knights from the other side. In a part of the battle description we read "...and the knights used their swords hiting the Serbs (the serbian heavy spearmen in the roman first line) but in both sides swords made no harm against eachother's armor untill the Archntopulla (the succesors of cataphracts) engaged the knights ussing their maces (matzoykia, ravdia, corines) and smashed their opponets arms and heads forcing the knights to retreat".
So even in 1186 western knights DID NOT use maces, also maces did not have to penetrate the armor but to carry the impact's force under the armor to the bones like a wave. Have you ever wonder why many "cataphracts" used small round shields instead of wide ones? The purpose od such shield is to be more handy to aim directly on the enemy's blow and absorve the impact of maces, axes etc. A bigger shield would require more time to change position in close combat.
EDIT: Compare the image of the book "BYZANTINE BEYOND THE GOLDEN GATES" with our own:


EDIT2: TWO screenshots before reaching the milestone of 400 turns of my campaign (half the mod's timefreame).
If you see that face that close you are dead!

Unforthunatly Lombard have opposite opinion!
The next one is from the test of cavalarii archer upg3 and it belongs mostly to my tutorial about creating MARKA horses for your mods.

The brown horse is a merge of three horse textures made by Dome for TGC mod and i combined them . Also take a look at the horses muscles. That is NOT my work but something all MARKA horses users forget.Its the result of MARKA team's normal map creation with ZBrush tool and give's life to horses without lossing their textures details.

[a156]

Well, it's debatable...
https://www.academia.edu/7781595/Cou...ian_Experience
Not even historians can agree on that

[Fabarius]

I still get ctd even if they conquer Tunis. When is the next patch planned to come out?

[AnthoniusII]

I still get ctd even if they conquer Tunis. When is the next patch planned to come out?

Soon ...In the next build there will be blood lines of royal fammilies too.
In my build i have reached 390 turns when Ioannes Tzimiskes created Immortals !

Immortals willl be one and only unit. That means that you can retrain them but not recruit another.

@a156
If historians can agree how can we? I trsust mr R.D'Ammato that is also a modern and greek language deep sciens and mr G.Ravva that his art always based on historians quidance.

[_Tartaros_]

+ some more new buildings (jewish quarter for ME culture) and a much more ballanced buildingtree + campaign.

Making money and upgrading cities isn´t that easy anymore and rebels hide in the woods to trap down easy victims. cities need to be carefull developed. the diffference between estateline cities and farm line cities is significant and final. Military cities produce better troops + public order, civil settlements produce money and finance your armies. the costs are the same for both lines now. similar to ports and there focus on military or trade.

The bigger factions like Bulgarian Empire, Eastern Franks Empire and Roman Empire have much more diffuculties to hold there grounds together. the first 100 turns (if not cheated) will be hard and mostly internal struggles. Once this struggles are over, other factions become more active and attack you. Some attacks are scripted and linked with historical events.
as bigger factions have a signifacant diplomatic penelty, once you are to big, the neighbours start to dislike you, no matter what. Attacking you will follow after a babyface time.