The Great Conflicts main discussion thread. Please post here!

[AnthoniusII]

i am still working on the new scale texture you ordered. that is if you still need it.
it did take a while, but it is about 5/6 done. just some shading of the scales left to to make that central nerve.

Ofcourse i need it...Remember i have to make 2 more units for Venice and a lot of Slavic units for Serbia, Great Moravia and that finall remake of Bulgarians with same style as the rest of units.
That scale will be crusial even for Islamic scale armors!
Thank you all for your wishes guys, I will be back soon. I promise.

[Giorgios]

Absolutely wonderful to see how close this mod is getting.

Out of interest: what are the religions in the game? Or does TGC use a cultures system more akin to EB2, rather than religion?

[AnthoniusII]

Absolutely wonderful to see how close this mod is getting.

Out of interest: what are the religions in the game? Or does TGC use a cultures system more akin to EB2, rather than religion?

Both...Its kind of complicated.
Religions and cultures co-exist in a way to serve a role that suit to religion of dynasty changes.
In the begining there will be one Christian Religion existing in many cultures. But when Magyars will convert to Christianity and Rus too they will (must) have a slightly diferent Church buildings lines.
Shism will be a political action rathen than a Dogmatic change (that followed much later).
Islamic culture hostes both Shia and Suni because in some point Fatimids will apear offering the player to accept their Dynastic line or fight them as invadors.

[Giorgios]

Both...Its kind of complicated.
Religions and cultures co-exist in a way to serve a role that suit to religion of dynasty changes.
In the begining there will be one Christian Religion existing in many cultures. But when Magyars will convert to Christianity and Rus too they will (must) have a slightly diferent Church buildings lines.
Shism will be a political action rathen than a Dogmatic change (that followed much later).
Islamic culture hostes both Shia and Suni because in some point Fatimids will apear offering the player to accept their Dynastic line or fight them as invadors.

That's interesting: I assume a player's guide will be needed, as that sounds an unusual setup.

When you say a single Christian religion: shouldn't the Eastern provinces have a separate Christian religion to represent the various anti-Chalcedonian communities of Armenia, Syria and Egypt? I'd understand if this was considered too fiddly for a first release!

[AnthoniusII]

That's interesting: I assume a player's guide will be needed, as that sounds an unusual setup.

When you say a single Christian religion: shouldn't the Eastern provinces have a separate Christian religion to represent the various anti-Chalcedonian communities of Armenia, Syria and Egypt? I'd understand if this was considered too fiddly for a first release!

That is not a real delima for TGC main consept. Egypt and Syria in 872 are under Islamic Rule with Antioch to have the most populant Orthodox Community after Constantinople.
Armenians are rebels in the main campaign but...We have the Paulkian Revolt event in TGC....A player that will play as Romans (Byzantines is a false term) will have to win a battle that CAN NOT BE WON in autoresolve, recapture the Paulikian strongholds and sent their exiles as troops (if he wins) to Italy to serve under Katepano of Italy.
About quide. There will be a rather small quide of what they need to do inorder to have spesific features. We leave though events to be found by players because inorder to win they have to reach year 1071 with spsific goals in that date.
TGC is not a "normal" mod. Its task is to lead its players to learn history and not make tasks ONLY the kind like "elliminate" that faction qonquer 100 provinces and you are done.
Romans and Bulgarians have more than 50 provnces both -even more if i recall well- but will a player that will reach 1071 as Romans , have cartian provinces under his control with put any rebels in them, with Bulgarians and Turcomans defeated and many more? _tartaros_ has created a line of "misions" for many starting factions. Failing in one of them when the calendar will show year 1071 will be a defeat even if the player has conquer entire map.

[Elendil 03]

Still, I find it a fair point that the Armenian settlements should be christian, but not chalcedonian.

[_Tartaros_]

i´m not sure about the non-chalcedonians, because we have heretics for this minor religions. as they doesn´t follow the mainline factions or the papal states, heretics will fit them good enough

[AnthoniusII]

Still, I find it a fair point that the Armenian settlements should be christian, but not chalcedonian.

TGC is trying to make a point.
That before the Shism East and West officialy had the same Christian Dogma. How many westerners know that Orthodox Icons on Churches are the result of a Pope's constant strugle?
Armenians are AOR units ,Rebels and Mercenaries. The majority of Armenians were Monophysites (the admit only one nature of God) but there were Armenians that followed both Islam and Orthodox Cristianity otherwise many of them could not become Emperors with most famous Example Ioannes Qurqua or better known as Tzimiskes.
The main campaign focuses in the era that the majority of europe officialy still had ONE CHURCH.
In the focused cammpaigns that will follow (Strugle for Italy and Strugle for the East) the more narrow map areas we cover the more diversity in religions, dogmas and dynasties we will be able to achive.
Its not nessesary now to have the Jewish Khazars or the Monophysites Armenians that could be added later as extention or a submod since we have 3-4 empty slots available , but not now.
Maybe when the TGC 1.0 open beta release wil be available we will recieve more help to add a couple more factions.
BEWARE though. Each faction in TGC has been made after years of research in the old CBUR development forum.
We had 2 REAL historians in our teams and two School Teachers and when we had doupts i asked Historians in FB like Timothy Dawson and Mr D'Amato .Espesialy mr D'Amato was very helpfull with advices.
TGC is not and NEVER will be a mod that will have unit rosters with IMAGINARY units simply because we need an extensive roster or someone wishes to make a submod that thefaction he likes must be a superpower.
TGC has a lot of superpowers already.
I was fortunate to make early campaign tests and i saw my armies get slaughtered by "barbarians" with superb archers or i won a battle by my cavalry with a horsemen still standing...

That is an early warning to submod creators...
Many people made huge efforts to give to community something REAL.
An example:


The design of this armor I was allowed with writen licennse to use it from the armor creator him self.
So we do not wish to see imaginary things in this mod.
It would be easy 10 years ago to create 20 units faction army rosters with everytype pf warriors for each faction.
I saw Arabic pikemen in some mods simply because a modder wanted that imaginary unit in the arabic roster to exist.
This can not happen in TGC...

[Elendil 03]

Though some Berber tribes did make use of pikemen quite extensively. The armies of both Almoravids and Almohads deployed a main infantry body made up of pikemen. But right, that's certainly not an Arab fighting style.

[NapoleonMaster]

Though some Berber tribes did make use of pikemen quite extensively. The armies of both Almoravids and Almohads deployed a main infantry body made up of pikemen. But right, that's certainly not an Arab fighting style.

I would like to see in what battles they used pikes and where did you read that the Almoravids and Almohads used pikemen.

The arabs never used pikes as far as I know, the Almoravids and Almohads used more infantry than their christian enemies,yes, however these infantrymen never used pikes, they instead used the combination of shield and spear.

The spaniards made extensive use of light cavalry to fend off muslim raiding parties composed mainly of cavalry.

The early arab armies of the great conquests were at first were composed mainly of infantrymen, again, with spears and shields, not pikemen, later, the arabs would use mainly light cavalry to outrun and overmaneuvre their enemies, that's one of the reasons the Romans changed their focus on infantry to cavalry since they mainly fought mainly highly mobile enemies.

[AnthoniusII]

I would like to see in what battles they used pikes and where did you read that the Almoravids and Almohads used pikemen.

The arabs never used pikes as far as I know, the Almoravids and Almohads used more infantry than their christian enemies,yes, however these infantrymen never used pikes, they instead used the combination of shield and spear.

The spaniards made extensive use of light cavalry to fend off muslim raiding parties composed mainly of cavalry.

The early arab armies of the great conquests were at first were composed mainly of infantrymen, again, with spears and shields, not pikemen, later, the arabs would use mainly light cavalry to outrun and overmaneuvre their enemies, that's one of the reasons the Romans changed their focus on infantry to cavalry since they mainly fought mainly highly mobile enemies.

True..When Romans defeated Sassanids their heavy cavalry was unable to pursuit the light cavalry of Arabs that in their early expansion used fast manuevres.
The answer to that tactics was the creation of "medium" all arround cavalry units with both lances (defensores) and archers or javelinears (koursores). The most common Roman tactic was to let Arabs intrude deep to Roman lands and in their return with their spoils of their raids to delay them, to make ambushes on them. Then their light horsemen (arabs) was a disadvandage in close combat. Ofcourse later they too developed medium and heavy cavalry as well when the Caliphate expanded too much.

[Giorgios]

That is not a real delima for TGC main consept. Egypt and Syria in 872 are under Islamic Rule with Antioch to have the most populant Orthodox Community after Constantinople.

Oh sure: and I don't want to make more work for the brilliant team of this mod. Nonetheless, it could be interesting to see, in a later release, separate Chalcedonian and anti-Chalcedonian communities in Syria and Egypt: certainly the restored Roman administration in the East after the 960s treated the two groups quite differently at times.

Will there be a simulation of some sort of the historic Roman practice of expelling Muslims from reconquered areas like Crete and Cilicia: or is this beyond the scope of the engine for a first release? And how about a simulation of the dhimmi system for the Islamic factions?

That before the Shism East and West officialy had the same Christian Dogma. How many westerners know that Orthodox Icons on Churches are the result of a Pope's constant strugle?
Armenians are AOR units ,Rebels and Mercenaries. The majority of Armenians were Monophysites (the admit only one nature of God) but there were Armenians that followed both Islam and Orthodox Cristianity otherwise many of them could not become Emperors with most famous Example Ioannes Qurqua or better known as Tzimiskes.

I agree, although of course this doesn't cover the anti-Chalcedonians, who followed, and were understood to follow, a very different dogma.

It's my understanding that it's Tzimiskes' supposed Armenian heritage is somewhat questionable!

TGC is not and NEVER will be a mod that will have unit rosters with IMAGINARY units simply because we need an extensive roster or someone wishes to make a submod that thefaction he likes must be a superpower.
TGC has a lot of superpowers already.

This is admirable.

[Jale82]

And one more time Happy Easter everybody!

[BlackDevilTW]

Hi, at what stage of the mod?

[karaislam]

Hi, at what stage of the mod?

soon there ll be closed beta release.u can read last 2-3 pages

[AnthoniusII]

soon there ll be closed beta release.u can read last 2-3 pages

True...due some late time events plus the Orthodox Easter we postoned the closed beta start for few days.
karaislam will recieve one of the 7 invidations or non TGC member team testers to hel us find some bugs , test units in varius battlemaps durring campaigns inorder Koultouras will use all that data to make each unit's finall stats.

7 because so far only 7 factions have 100% ready recruitment system, playable events, dynasty and religius changes.
Later i will use Razor's, Paleologos' and karaislam's material to complete faction rosters that are not finall.
The 2nd stage will be the completion of Great Moravia and Serbia's faction rosters , their misions and their events and the 2nd phase of close beta will start.
That will give me time to work with both paleologos and karaislam is textures that i might need to complete all Islamic factions.
That tast -while the close beta testers will enjoy battles- will be the biggest.
The task is to keep Mattheus and Sumskilz's Arabic material, add Paleologo's shield paterns and much of karaislam's material , use Razors extra berber and arabic heads and create :
The Arabic common units for all islamic factions
Each Islamic faction's unique inits
Each Islamic palace units
Common slave unit roster.
We hope that zoar will find some time to help us create a full line of buildings UI cards like he does in BI RTW/BI mod of his.
The factions that will be tested are:

1. Roman Empire
2. Bulgarian Empire
3. East Frankia => HRE transformation
4. Lombard Duchies
5. Croatia
6. Kievan Rus
7. Magyars => Hungarian kingdom transformation.

There are ready rosters like Normans, Turcomanic leaque, Pechenges that are simply are not playable.

[karaislam]

eagerly waiting for the mod

[Alondite]

Looking forward to this great mod too

[_Tartaros_]

thank you

btw, i´m currently waiting for Anthonius build to melt both our builds together into the internal build.
in the mean time, i´m round up more scripts for every playable faction.

[Dr. Jones]

Still following this great project and hope it will be public in the near future